My hearfelt sympathy...

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LJB
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2010/12/09 01:46:35 (permalink)

My hearfelt sympathy...

... with the Bakers. It must be really crappy to work you ass off for years and then get 90% criticism off the bat. This IS a huge build and will take some tweaking, but coding 5GB worth of scripts is no joke! Well done.

I once read that Hanz Zimmer still likes to get a whole gang of composers to sit in the back of the control room when he first plays a new score to a big director - just to get some "balance in the jury".

Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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    Supercomposer
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 03:29:13 (permalink)
    hm still a truckload of scripts, but the acutal program is 100 megabytes, right? rest ist mostly audio content

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    #2
    chrisharbin
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 03:38:13 (permalink)
    I dunno, I just dl'ed the "x1" sections (two part) and installed.

    Other than the GR4 (because of LE) issue, it's been fairly painless (shrug)

    I keep saying it but these threads are all kinda running together.....cake has been really good so far in trying to keep up.

    One thing though, people who are getting issues are not simply being negative. Some of the complaints have been from people who really know sonar well. It's a growing period, luckily, it goes side by side with the previous version while we are getting our feet wet

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    #3
    LJB
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 04:10:37 (permalink)
    I just meant I'd rather be a muso than a Baker for the next few weeks - presenting one's creations to a scrutinizing public is always scary!

    Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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    John T
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 05:16:45 (permalink)
    I wish there were a bit more scrutinising, ie: assessing in detail. I came back on the release day hoping to see some considered observation from new owners. Honestly haven't seen a single post I would describe as such yet.

    There's lots of THIS SUXX MAN I CARNT CHANGE THE COLOUR stuff, but that's really not so interesting.

    I think I'll keep it old school and wait for proper press reviews.

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    benstat
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 05:23:30 (permalink)
    I believe Computer Music magazine are doing a full review in this months issue, out in a week or two.

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    Rain
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 08:58:47 (permalink)
    LJB


    ... with the Bakers. It must be really crappy to work you ass off for years and then get 90% criticism off the bat. This IS a huge build and will take some tweaking, but coding 5GB worth of scripts is no joke! Well done.


    I had the same feeling when I logged in yesterday. Those guys obviously put their heart into this and really believe in their product. 


    But I guess this must be put into perspective. These are first impressions, and being the major update that it is, surely, there will be an adaptation period - people are used to certain things working a certain way while at the same time they have their expectations for all the new stuff. After weeks of anticipation, it's not that surprising. 


    Even pro reviewers like Craig Anderton mentioned being a bit puzzled w/ it in the first place. It eventually settled out. And I think what we're seeing here is the equivalent - very first impressions, from users who love the product and can be quite emotive about it. 


    Also, there's also the community factor - we're amongst ourselves. If some guy walked in saying that this new update sucks and that X1 is inferior to this or that product, I bet you a lot of the guys and girls in here would stand by to defend X1, no matter if they seem to be dissatisfied at the moment.
    post edited by Rain - 2010/12/09 09:00:23

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    #7
    vrooom
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 09:14:10 (permalink)
    For me and I wouldn't say I am a hardcore user, just someone who uses Sonar as more of a audio recorder with a splash of MIDI stuff here and there, I am finding the X1 release a little underwhelming.

    I think for us long-term users the main problem is that everything has been moved around on the GUI. There was obviously a reason for this, but when you've been using the same software since 2001 and suddenly all the control move around, it can be a little difficult to "find the love".

    The software itself is stable - I've not noticed any improvements in performance - it feels roughly the same as its predecessor. I think the changes and improvements to the workflow have been designed for the pro-user and so it will be those people who will laud the improvements.

    Those of us who just dabble or use 1/10th of the functionality will be left scratching our heads and saying: "Is that it?"

    It's certainly not as radical as the advertising blurb said. It feels more like a new paintjob than anything else. I'm not sniping, I am a satisfied user of nearly 10 years, but for me this has been the least essential upgrade I've made. Again, I'm not complaining because there was no demo to try before you buy. I paid my money to support a company whose work I enjoy and I will continue to support them.
    #8
    hillsc
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 09:24:32 (permalink)
    This was my take on heartfelt sympathies:

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2151608


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    perfectprint
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 10:13:30 (permalink)
    thats pretty much all youre gonna get on the forums, everyone is trying to ask questions , give their opinion on how things should be done, and complain because their old way of working has changed.

    your not gonna see many posts saying 'hey, x1 is great. no problems to report over here. carry on!' 

    that said, hey, x1 is great, no problems over here......... so far.

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    Lemonboy
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 10:34:24 (permalink)
    LJB


    ... with the Bakers. It must be really crappy to work you ass off for years and then get 90% criticism off the bat. This IS a huge build and will take some tweaking, but coding 5GB worth of scripts is no joke! Well done.

    Yes, I agree totally . . . we all want X1 to be great, but not everyone wants the same things improved/changed.  I've noticed what appears to be a certain increased level of stress from some of the Cake guys who come on the forum to answer questions. It is obvious that they are proud of the product, but it does seem like some of the "why haven't you . . . " questions are getting them down.  


    Andy
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    sven450
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 10:52:06 (permalink)
    Just want to weigh in and say that I'm planning on working with this new product for a while before I hang myself with a guitar string because 'X' is different.  I think that was the whole point of the release.  It is different.

    Thanks Cakewalk.

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    dontletmedrown
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 11:32:59 (permalink)
    As musicians surely we can all understand that it doesn't matter how hard we work on something if the end product fails to connect.  Nobody is going to say "Oooooh but he spent so much time crafting that song".  They'll just say, "IT SUCKS!  Why did they even bother?"  Such is life.  I did get a kick out of all the chaos yesterday.
    #13
    Danny Danzi
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 11:36:56 (permalink)
    hillsc


    This was my take on heartfelt sympathies:

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2151608

    Most excellent post there man! It really is a tough call all the way around for both the Bakers and the users. I had the chance to talk to a pretty well respected member on this forum last night in private about some of the messages posted on here. We chalk it all up to many of us just being passionate about this program as well as the anticipation that goes with the hype. One of my favorite things to do is receive that Sonar package in the mail....and the best is opening the program for the first time. You can't wait to explore and experience all the new stuff, only to sometimes be let down. Some people haven't even gotten to the install phase yet, so it's easy to understand their frustration as well.
     
    See man, being on the other side of the fence its easy for you to understand both sides. For some of us, we look at it like "well, with all due respect, we've been customers for so long, have spent a pretty penny on many versions of this, we have the right to complain when we feel like it." It's not a matter of us being ungrateful really. It's a matter of the hype getting the best of us as well as the let down. Kinda like when you meet that hott chic, you can't wait to take her out and wait for the date to come up, you take her out and it's a horrible time. She sure was beautiful on the outside, but man was she hideous on the inside....and she thought the same about me! LOL!!
     
    The other thing to remember is, the people that have issues that are regs around here have paid their dues on this forum for the price of an internet connection and a question from a poster. Our members here ARE tech support for most things and they actually save the Bakers quite a bit of grief I'd be willing to bet. Those that hang here regularly want to make a difference for others while they support software that believe in. And many have been supporting it (like myself) since Cake 4. That's quite a bit to have invested over the years...now times that by the amount of people like me. This company works for us, we pay their salaries and most of us have way more money invested into this company than they do. They get paid to do what they do, they invest their time...we pay them, for that service. That said, I sincerely believe someone has the right to be a bit upset when something isn't right. Lashing out isn't cool, but speaking your mind is in a professional way and hey...we're only human. You look forward to this release, you get it, you're greeted with issues....you worked a long day and looked forward to this only to be let down. Sure, maybe it will be temporary, but we can't be blamed for being human, ya know? :)
     
    I too think it's awesome the Bakers show up and talk to us here as often as they do. I also can agree with how they probably take some of this stuff to heart after they spent countless hours creating it for probably way less money than they are worth. However, that's how it goes in this business. Being in the field you're in is often times your choice. Being in that field sometimes can press your buttons...it goes with the territory. That said, I would be willing to bet most of the negativity we see is more out of frustration than not being grateful. We vent when sometimes we shouldn't say anything at all. We sometimes get nervous to the point of missing the obvious. We lash out when thngs that are supposed to happen don't happen yet our money is gone. I had a problem with X1...it concerned me, but I just took a nap and let it pass. I had to wait quite a bit for my passwords and download links to actually work. The link said 15 minutes....I figured by 30 minutes to an hour, there was so reason for concern. Especially since I received a paid in full invoice. But, I knew it would show up...it just took a bit longer than I had hoped.
     
    Anyway, it's all like you said in your post...but we too that are spending the money here are human as well and are passionate about what we do. Sometimes that passion can over-rule us just like the passion the Bakers have to create this stuff. At the end of the day, I don't think any of it is meant to be taken personally. It's all out of frustration. :) If we hated this and we're not grateful, we'd not be here buying this thing every year nor would be showing up on the forum day in and day out. So we that b!tch and moan deserve a lil credit also...even if we kinda come off mean at times. ;)

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    derFunkenstein
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 12:02:08 (permalink)
    I think the expectations of some folks were unrealistic.  I'm personally putting off upgrading until I finish with my current project.  Some people seem to think that they were going to Understand Everything Right Away, when clearly that can't possibly be the case.  As soon as I finish up with my project (which should be around Christmas) I'm going to upgrade and tinker.  People that upgraded and expected to have the same level of proficiency are nutso.

    And technical issues on release day are expected.  Anybody who thought a launch like this could go 100% smooth obviously has never shopped on Black Friday, or gone to a midnight movie release, or tried to play World of Warcraft the day an expansion came out (such as Tuesday).  Buying in on day0 is not for the faint of heart.     



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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 12:37:03 (permalink)
    Well said Danny!
     
    Each time there's been a major new release of Cakewalk/Sonar, there's always been a period of "inertia"
     
    Folks are excited about the new features/capabilities/improvements/possibilities
    Upon using the new version, both positive and negative facets are discovered.
    Early feedback starts rolling in... and you hear complaints about bugs and annoyances... and you read the occasional post describing why a particular user likes "X" feature/s.
     
    Given that the GUI has undergone major changes, it's not surprising to see reports of bugs... and some initial impressions of confusion/luke-warm reception.  Given the changes, there's going to be a learning (adjustment) curve... even for the long-time users.  Personally, I think the new UI will ultimately be seen as a substantial improvement.  When working in X1, I feel a bit disoriented... but I think that's just a matter of familiarity.
    Remember back to when Sonar 1 was released... (Cakewalk moved away from the "spread-sheet" style UI of Pro Audio).  It took a while for folks to adjust.  There's no doubt in my mind that X1's GUI is better organized.  Note that I'm not saying it's perfect. 
    Many folks (including myself) are already compiling a list of improvments we'd like to see implemented. 
    ie:  I'd like to see mouse-wheel support for the Pro Channel.
     
    I think the X1 release (do to the major GUI changes) has stirred up more passion than other recent upgrades.
    Otherwise, (IMO) the X1 release is right in line with those from the past.
    The cycle of Cake Baking continues...
    Perhaps some new chefs/ingredients/presentation... but it's still Cake.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    Rain
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 12:40:17 (permalink)
    derFunkenstein


    I think the expectations of some folks were unrealistic.  I'm personally putting off upgrading until I finish with my current project.  Some people seem to think that they were going to Understand Everything Right Away, when clearly that can't possibly be the case.  As soon as I finish up with my project (which should be around Christmas) I'm going to upgrade and tinker.  People that upgraded and expected to have the same level of proficiency are nutso.

    I don't think it nuts. I mean, it's human nature, isn't it? No matter what, we always think we'll have it figured out, that our knowledge and abilities will make the transition easier, that it can't be THAT bad. And on the whole, I don't think it is that bad. Most expected a learning curve, bigger than the usual one with upgrades from version to version. What comes up to the surface, because people won't be posting an exhaustive list of what works as expected.

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    chrisharbin
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 17:11:50 (permalink)
    benstat


    I believe Computer Music magazine are doing a full review in this months issue, out in a week or two.


    On one of the forums parts of it were posted (maybe kvr)

    They gave it a 9/10

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    JenksTer
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    Re:My hearfelt sympathy... 2010/12/09 17:20:04 (permalink)
    LJB


    ... with the Bakers. It must be really crappy to work you ass off for years and then get 90% criticism off the bat. This IS a huge build and will take some tweaking, but coding 5GB worth of scripts is no joke! Well done.

    I once read that Hanz Zimmer still likes to get a whole gang of composers to sit in the back of the control room when he first plays a new score to a big director - just to get some "balance in the jury".


    Hans Zimmers music doesn't require an instruction manual....
    Apparently, neither does X1.
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