Helpful Reply10 Hours Work Lost. And Found Now.

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Geoff Cattle
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2018/05/01 16:31:41 (permalink)

10 Hours Work Lost. And Found Now.

After working on a project for ten hours today, my block of flats received a power cut that lasted for a couple of seconds. My PC (and everything else) came back on. Went past the BIOS and back into Windows. Upon loading Cakewalk, my project was in the same state as it was ten hours ago. I regularly saved  my project, and have auto save enabled too.
 
So where has all my work gone? The momentary power cut wouldn't have wiped my drives, as my project is still there; but without today's work on it.
 
Does anyone have any ideas as to what might have happened?
 
[Addition] Thanks to the input from the replies on this thread, I have narrowed it down and identified my error. TL;DR: I set up a Project Template and then started recording audio; as I would in a project. As it's not my habit to make templates, I assumed (wrongly) that I was auto saving a project, because that's usually what I do (habit). Thanks to the power cut, I learned this early. The suggestion further down this thread is a good one: Prompt: 'This is a Project Template(.cwp), all Audio will be lost, do you wish to continue, or save as a Project (.cwp) file?' Cheers to you all.
post edited by Geoff Cattle - 2018/05/02 11:26:35

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Cactus Music
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 16:39:52 (permalink)
Well you said your were saving as you worked. So the project should therefore be the last save.
 
Only other possibility is you have opened the project in one location and all your saves were placed elsewhere. This can only happen if you use the "save as" function. 
 
Use Windows Search for the CWP name and look at the time stamps. 
 
And to prevent this from happening again always perform a "save as" to a back up location after spending any amount of hard work into any file. I used to use a second DATA drive for this reason. I now have been using One Drive if the songs are at the midi only stage. Once I start recording Audio there will always be 2 locations for each song file. And then those are backed up every once in a while to a 3rd location. 

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 16:51:55 (permalink)
Cactus Music. That's the thing, I've done exactly as you described, including the 'save as', I do it religiously. I have Sonar (or Cakewalk by BandLab, now) pointed at my chosen directory for project files in the Folder Locations preferences, to a separate drive. When I go to that location, the only recent save is 5 hours ago.
 
I don't understand.

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pwalpwal
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 17:18:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/01 17:40:14
how's your hard disk configured? (can't remember the exact windows terminology) but it can be set for performance, where data is left in the disk buffer and flushed from time to time, or configured the other way where data is immediately flushed to the disk... see here https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/21904-enable-disable-disk-write-caching-windows-10-a.html
and if you haven't overwritten the project file yet, check the timestamp for last modified
/hth

just a sec

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 17:24:16 (permalink)
Found it! Now it's saved as a Project Template, with some of the audio missing. I keep getting the old 'Silent Buses' dialogue as well. Trying to put 'WarnSilentBuses=0' Into the initialisation file no longer works; press 'apply' and the text just typed disappears . I hope this is transition teething problems for Bandlab. 
 
So today, my templates have been saved as projects, and vice versa. Now Cakewalk reports missing audio and silent buses when I open that project, so I imagine that audio data has gone elsewhere too. I think I will spend another ten hours trying to find that data. 
 
The only audio data I lost was an auxiliary send track from the metronome. I spent the day getting project ready,; I can do that track again. The thing that concerns me is that when I record some music, where will my data go?
 
I was going to have a go at some 70's/90's Metal, as I'm enjoying the challenge from years of Punk and Ska rhythm guitar to fast soloing, but now I think I'll do a cover of 'Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered'

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mettelus
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 17:24:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/01 17:40:06
Just to check the obvious, if you search your machine for *.cwp files, the most current (anywhere) is 5 hours old? I am not sure if autosaves go to your project folder (or how they are named), but not having anything anywhere is very odd.

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 17:28:00 (permalink)
mettelus
Just to check the obvious, if you search your machine for *.cwp files, the most current (anywhere) is 5 hours old? I am not sure if autosaves go to your project folder (or how they are named), but not having anything anywhere is very odd.

Cheers. I didn't search for *.cwp files (good tip for next time). I was typing my last post whilst you posted this one, my post above semi explains it???

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 17:38:48 (permalink)
pwalpwal
how's your hard disk configured? (can't remember the exact windows terminology) but it can be set for performance, where data is left in the disk buffer and flushed from time to time, or configured the other way where data is immediately flushed to the disk... see here https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/21904-enable-disable-disk-write-caching-windows-10-a.html
and if you haven't overwritten the project file yet, check the timestamp for last modified
/hth


I have my drives set so they never power down, no matter what other setting is made. I have my PC set up for performance, and have streamlined it as much as I have the knowledge to do. I'll read the article you linked, thank you for that. It seems that there is a conflict/confusion with file locations and/or extension names. It's either that, or I made a wrong turn, and saved a project as a project template. 
 
Thank you.

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Starise
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 17:47:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/01 17:58:40
Geoff I'm glad you didn't loose everything.
CbB has an auto save feature. In the beginning there was some resistance to using it because some users were concerned it might auto save and do a similar thing to what happens when you load virus software. Automatically jump in to auto save and stall a project. Thus far this hasn't happened to me. I'm saying this for the benefit of anyone else who is either on a large project or beginning one. 
I've been there, done that and wasn't as successful. I had to learn it the hard way.

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:00:46 (permalink)
Starise
Geoff I'm glad you didn't loose everything.
CbB has an auto save feature. In the beginning there was some resistance to using it because some users were concerned it might auto save and do a similar thing to what happens when you load virus software. Automatically jump in to auto save and stall a project. Thus far this hasn't happened to me. I'm saying this for the benefit of anyone else who is either on a large project or beginning one. 
I've been there, done that and wasn't as successful. I had to learn it the hard way.


I use the auto save feature and press CTRL S regularly. I'm still learning. Probably overlooked something. Trying to work out what, though.

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Anderton
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:04:45 (permalink)
I highly recommend an uninterruptible power supply.

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:11:13 (permalink)
Anderton
I highly recommend an uninterruptible power supply.


Can you recommend that to the National Grid? The whole street went down. I know that because all the emergency lights outside my flat  kicked in and then flickered off. I have a Platinum rated PSU on my PC. 
 
[EDIT] Cheers, I get your humour now. Bit like mine. I fell into the internet response mode for a second. I'm all better now :D
 
[EDIT TWO] Ah, it has been explained to me what you mean now, Anderton. I think I should look into that
post edited by Geoff Cattle - 2018/05/02 09:24:16

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Starise
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:13:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/01 18:17:08
I think he means battery backup for your computer. I don't have it. I should.

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:19:26 (permalink)
Starise
I think he means battery backup for your computer. I don't have it. I should.


I'll have to find some 600 Watt batteries for next time.

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msmcleod
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:20:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/02 09:25:23
Anderton
I highly recommend an uninterruptible power supply.


+1 to this.
 
I managed to get a great deal on an online UPS, so it's always running through the battery using its own generated sine wave. Apart from the power protection aspect, there's been a noticeable drop in noise with everything running off such a clean power signal.
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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:22:29 (permalink)
Cheers to everyone offering answers and advice. I have X3 Producer on my main hard drive. I think there may be some file location conflicts somewhere. I don't want to work for free for Microsoft, whilst I record music, though.
 

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:26:32 (permalink)
It's a great peace of mind having a USB connected to your crucial equipment - computer, interface, video monitors & audio monitors.
 
They give you enough time to save what you're working on and shut down cleanly.
 
One of those investments that you never realise the benefit of until you read a thread like this.

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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:32:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/02 09:26:00
Geoff Cattle
Anderton
I highly recommend an uninterruptible power supply.


Can you recommend that to the National Grid? The whole street went down. I know that because all the emergency lights outside my flat  kicked in and then flickered off. I have a Platinum rated PSU on my PC. 
 
[EDIT] Cheers, I get your humour now. Bit like mine. I fell into the internet response mode for a second. I'm all better now :D


Hey Geoff.
 
I think you may have misunderstood. You are talking about the PSU inside the computer. A UPS is an external power supply that you plug your compter into that contains its own backup battery. Upon loss of power the battery kicks in, giving you time to save your work.They are inexpensive and well worth the effort.

Bruce.
 
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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:50:49 (permalink)
tenfoot
Geoff Cattle
Anderton
I highly recommend an uninterruptible power supply.


Can you recommend that to the National Grid? The whole street went down. I know that because all the emergency lights outside my flat  kicked in and then flickered off. I have a Platinum rated PSU on my PC. 
 
[EDIT] Cheers, I get your humour now. Bit like mine. I fell into the internet response mode for a second. I'm all better now :D


Hey Geoff.
 
I think you may have misunderstood. You are talking about the PSU inside the computer. A UPS is an external power supply that you plug your compter into that contains its own backup battery. Upon loss of power the battery kicks in, giving you time to save your work.They are inexpensive and well worth the effort.


Yeah, I did misunderstand. Correction acknowledged.

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 18:51:39 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
It's a great peace of mind having a USB connected to your crucial equipment - computer, interface, video monitors & audio monitors.
 
They give you enough time to save what you're working on and shut down cleanly.
 
One of those investments that you never realise the benefit of until you read a thread like this.


That's where I save my project files.

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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 19:05:37 (permalink)
Geoff Cattle
Found it! Now it's saved as a Project Template, with some of the audio missing. I keep getting the old 'Silent Buses' dialogue as well. Trying to put 'WarnSilentBuses=0' Into the initialisation file no longer works; press 'apply' and the text just typed disappears . I hope this is transition teething problems for Bandlab. 
 


I think there may be some confusion. Project templates are not intended for saving audio. They are to save tracks and effects to start a NEW project. Audio won't be saved with a track template.
 
The ini file setting should work identical to SONAR there are no changes. Its best to edit that file while SONAR is not running since it may overwrite your changes otherwise.

Noel Borthwick
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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 20:45:17 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Geoff Cattle
Found it! Now it's saved as a Project Template, with some of the audio missing. I keep getting the old 'Silent Buses' dialogue as well. Trying to put 'WarnSilentBuses=0' Into the initialisation file no longer works; press 'apply' and the text just typed disappears . I hope this is transition teething problems for Bandlab. 
 


I think there may be some confusion. Project templates are not intended for saving audio. They are to save tracks and effects to start a NEW project. Audio won't be saved with a track template.

 
I know. Yet my project was saved as a template. That's what I don't understand. I have made a number of project templates, and they're saved with the .cwt extension. My projects are .cwp (I don't do .cwb bundles). After searching my drives for my lost project, I found it as a project template, including all the saves. Before setting up the project, I dis save as a .cwt template, but after that, continued to save as a .cwp. Unless I hadn't, and autosave and my ctrl S was updating the template. The latter is possible.

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mettelus
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/01 23:09:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Geoff Cattle 2018/05/02 09:11:09
If you missed doing a "save as..." and changing the format back to a cwp, it is very possible that you were working on a cwt the entire time. I never knew they would autosave though, and that is a good indication of what happened.

It does bring up a good feature to have a warning dialog when saving a template that tells the user "You are saving a template file, no audio or MIDI information will be saved!"

Track templates are another option to consider, since they allow surgical extraction and insertion while always working with a cwp.

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Geoff Cattle
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Re: 10 Hours Work Lost. 2018/05/02 09:18:55 (permalink)
mettelus
If you missed doing a "save as..." and changing the format back to a cwp, it is very possible that you were working on a cwt the entire time. I never knew they would autosave though, and that is a good indication of what happened.

It does bring up a good feature to have a warning dialog when saving a template that tells the user "You are saving a template file, no audio or MIDI information will be saved!"

Track templates are another option to consider, since they allow surgical extraction and insertion while always working with a cwp.



I think that's hat happened. I organised a project template, loading my guitar and drum track templates. I think where I WENT WRONG (I hate admitting this), is that I started recording some takes, to get the EQ on each instrument about right. As I am new to creating project templates and have only done a few recently, when I saw the progress bar flash, as in when the project auto saves, through habit I carried on as I would when working on a project.
 
On the plus side, there's been some interesting responses on this thread. All I lost was a couple of minutes' rough guitar/bass guitar takes and some markers, all the work put into setting up the project was intact; so that time wasn't wasted. Now that I am aware of this, I won't make the same mistake after a really good recording (Mileage may vary according to what is considered good, according to taste; for me it's being able to hear each instrument and when they sound together as a whole they sit in and don't compete, I struggle on in pursuit of that and have decided to get the best tone possible, and spend time doing that before committing to recording and correcting everything afterwards -that's my approach now)
 
mettelus, your suggestion; "You are saving a template file, no audio or MIDI information will be saved!", is exactly what I thought last night. 
 
Cheers to you and all who posted here. 
post edited by Geoff Cattle - 2018/05/02 11:17:24

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