128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries

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solvaij
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2016/03/24 07:45:32 (permalink)

128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries

Hi there 
I built a beast hoping to decrease loading time and playing more Kontakt library in Sonar Platinum but I am disappointed.
My old PC with 24 GB ram was faster then the new PC that I built with 128 GB ram..... I don't no whats wrong... can you believe I have to wait around 2 min just to start the True Piano instrument.... and for kontakt more then 3 to 4 min.. I am lost hear please help.
My PC specification is
 
Opreating System Windows 10 64bit
Motherboard MSI X99S Gaming  ACK
Processor i7-5930 CPU 3.50GHz
Ram G Skill 128 GB DDr4-2400 16 GBX8
Graphic Card GTX 980Ti Gaming 6GB
Hard drives   512 GB0 SSd samsung and 4X 4 TB backup drives  Toshiba Black addition 
Casing Corsair 
Power Supply Corsair RM 1000 Watt ultra-quiet
Cooling Corsair Hydro series H100i GTX
 
Please tell me what is wrong with my PC Spac
waiting to hear for any suggestion to solve this  
 
Regards
Solvaij
 
#1

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    Wookiee
    Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 08:05:57 (permalink)
    What version of Windows 10, Home, Pro etc.

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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    #2
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 08:07:05 (permalink)
    There is no mention of what you're using for an audio interface in your spec

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    #3
    THambrecht
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 08:15:05 (permalink)
    More RAM does not make the PC faster.
    Loading time is a thing of the cpu and the hard drive with the libraray.
    From own experience I know that 4 internal harddrives (as well as 4 USB drives) slow down the PC significant.
    For Backup we use fast NAS over network.
     
    Even try to unplug the 4 hard drives and make a test.
    Check if all drivers for the cpu and system are proberly installed.

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    #4
    Zargg
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 08:21:00 (permalink)
    Hi, and welcome to this forum. Your pc should have no problems running HUGE projects. Mine is way less powerful than yours, and I have no problems with any Vsti in any projects. It takes seconds to load. I think the problem is elsewhere. Is this with every Vsti, or just a few? Is Windows up to date? Is anything connected via a hub of some sort? Do you have any external controllers? What kind of Audio Interface, and which driver mode do you use? Just poking around for more
    Best of luck.

    Ken Nilsen
    Zargg
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    #5
    John T
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 08:38:45 (permalink)
    THambrecht
    More RAM does not make the PC faster.
    Loading time is a thing of the cpu and the hard drive with the libraray.

     
    Not quite true, as low enough RAM means lots of reliance on virtual memory, and unless the page file is on an SSD, then the difference can be remarkable. Even on an SSD it can be an issue. Though it would be unusual if this had been a significant problem in the 24gb machine, so you're right in that going from that machine to the current one shouldn't be a striking difference.
     
    THambrecht
    From own experience I know that 4 internal harddrives (as well as 4 USB drives) slow down the PC significant.
    For Backup we use fast NAS over network.

    Even try to unplug the 4 hard drives and make a test.
    Check if all drivers for the cpu and system are proberly installed.


    Sorry to quibble with both of your points, but there's no reason why extra hard drives should slow the system overall. I've got five in my computer right now.
     
    Everything about this screams "configuration issue". The hardware components themselves are more than adequate.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
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    #6
    MarioD
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 09:28:13 (permalink)
    It could also be a Kontakt configuration problem.  Are you streaming from disk?  Are your patches on the same drive as the program?  Are the patches in the old or new Kontakt format? Are the patches on an USB drive?  More information is needed to pin point the problem(s).

    The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better.
     
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    #7
    THambrecht
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 09:47:42 (permalink)
    Nevertheless, I would first unplug the 4 hard drives.
    If there is a problem in the configuration it is best to search the problem with the minimum hardware.
    It is about 1 minute to unplug the 4 drives.
    There are cases where a HDD can slow down a SDD or the whole system - if the drives are in wrong order or systemdrivers are missing.

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

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    #8
    solvaij
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 09:55:06 (permalink)
    Thanks all for helping
    ya I am using Focusrite Saffire pro 24 DSP
    and also with my old PC I was using the same card without any problem.
    and about the wind 10 actually I am not sure it is pro or home.... there where an free update 
    #9
    solvaij
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 09:57:47 (permalink)
    and this problem is with every VSTI my friend Zargg
    71
     
     
    #10
    solvaij
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 10:00:30 (permalink)
    All of my Kontakt libraries in one internal hard.
    I am not using any external hard for loading samples
     
    #11
    SimpleM
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 10:29:14 (permalink)
    Less than 8gb of ram in Windows can be an issue where memory can bottleneck the speed of the computer but once you cross that threshold, almost anything you throw at a Windows machine that slows it down is in no way related to memory.  Your bottleneck is in some other part of the config.  128gb of ram is overkill in the biggest sense.

    As an earlier poster suggested, cut back to minimums and give it a try, OS drive, Data Drive, Sample drive.

    I have a feeling the backup drives are the problem.

    I would avoid using any real-time backup programs or routines.

    Having an extra drive to save duplicate projects to (I suggest BUN files if doing this) can be ok, but real time backup, especially raid setups, can slow you to a crawl.  Some folks sort out real time backup but if something conflicts or is set oddly, it can kill you.

    Also, Win 10 has all the virus protection you need built in so make sure you don't have any system choking 3rd party AV or malware stuff running.
    #12
    SimpleM
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 10:41:59 (permalink)
    Just did a few loading tests on my system.

    Twin 2.27 Ghz Xenon processors
    18gb ram
    6970 Ati Vid card 2gb ram
    120 Gb SSD OS drive
    500GB Data SATA
    500GB Sample SATA

    True Pianos 1/2 second load
    Rapture pro, instant load, instant patch change
    Addictive Drums 2, 5 second to insert, instant patch change.

    You have some problem other than Memory.  The old 24gb was more than enough.
     
     
     
    #13
    brundlefly
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 10:54:09 (permalink)
    Use Windows Resource Monitor or MS Process Monitor to help determine what's going on during those two minutes.
     
     

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    #14
    ston
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 11:18:04 (permalink)
    What's your system's proper boot time?  Not from 'shutdown', but if you do a full Restart?
     
    I would start by pulling all the RAM apart from one card, and make sure that's correctly seated in the first slot.  Disconnect all the hard drives except for the SSD system drive and the 1 TB drive with the VSTs on it.  Any difference?
     
    I would also try running some basic r/w drive speed tests.  e.g. just copy the system's swap file to the drive and then read it back off the drive again.  Come up with some rough r/w speeds (MB/s).
     
    Your machine should go so fast that it should be in orbit.
    #15
    Kylotan
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 11:33:13 (permalink)
    Either some software is pegging the CPU to 100% all of the time (eg. it's being used for Bitcoin mining in a botnet) or there's some serious hardware problem that Windows is hiding.
     
    I'd suggest checking Task Manager to see what's running, removing all unnecessary background processes, running a few scans to check for malware, and checking whether other programs also have slow loading times.

    Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc
     
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    #16
    solvaij
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 11:34:06 (permalink)
    Thanks a lot I will try all the tips that you guys told me...
    and thanks again for all the help really appreciated
     
    Regards 
    #17
    slartabartfast
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 12:37:45 (permalink)
    Assume that your program is set to actually fill all available ram on first start. Further assume that the programmer realized that not all computers have infinite ram and used some type of buffering or selective loading so that once the available ram is filled loading stops, the program starts to work, and further data must be fetched from the hard drive, or a smaller smart cache in memory. Let's say it takes x seconds after you start the program to fill the 8 gig of ram that the program sees in your computer as available. If you now increase your ram to the point where the program now sees 80 gig available to load, then it will take 10x seconds to fill the available memory, and your start/load time for the program will have increased dramatically. The larger memory machine may well be able to deliver the samples to the program from the fast ram in less time, but before it can do that it must spend more time filling up the free ram on the more memory endowed machine. So play may be more efficient with fewer pauses, but loading/startup will take longer if it requires reading a lot of data into memory first.
    #18
    mettelus
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 12:45:11 (permalink)
    I am not familiar with that MoBo, but wondering if the sample drive is connected to a SATA2 connection? Even then the load time seems excessive, but not sure how big that set is either.

    My MoBo is old enough it only has 2 - SATA3 connections to it.

    Definitely examine all the processes, drivers, and check hardware capabilities. A lot of processes are unnecessary as a DAW.

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    #19
    Psychobillybob
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 12:50:01 (permalink)
    Sounds like a Kontakt issue to me I load big Kontakt libraries over a LAN shared harddrive and never takes more than 2 minutes on any of them...so I have libraries going from my DAW into my synth computer, loading and then back into the DAW via analog...check your Kontakt file buffers...

    I'm using SOnar Platinium on a 6 core Lynx Audio machine and a ton of vintage pre-amps/eq's/comps I build for fun and sometimes money, REDD.47/API/Neve I also use the UAD stuff, and also use a Macbook Logic 9 through Apogee...
    #20
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 13:07:15 (permalink)
    The OP mentioned that even True Pianos loads slowly.
    This might be a tip-off that one of the drives is operating in PIO mode (which would absolutely kill performance).
     
    If you're going to spend that kind of money on a machine:
    You want your sample libraries on SSD.  They'll load *far* faster... and you'll achieve 3 times the polyphony.
     
    The GTX-980Ti and 128GB RAM aren't buying any additional performance.
     
    Running 128GB RAM, some apps currently have problems.
    We have a client who was having issues with VE Pro and Kontakt... where Kontakt wasn't releasing RAM when samples were removed from the project.  The system would become "RAM starved" and start hitting the VM swapfile (which killed performance).  His solution was to run two separate machines... each with 64GB RAM (while the issues are worked out).  This composer pulls 4000 stereo voices (not a typo) of disk-streaming polyphony from a single machine.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #21
    solvaij
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 14:27:51 (permalink)
    Many great tips thanks a lot friends ......... I am trying all the suggestions 
    Hop to find solution
     
    Regards
    Solvaij 
    #22
    vanblah
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 15:30:27 (permalink)
    As others have said, your sample libraries need to be on SSD to load them faster.
     
    When I switched from spinning disks to SSDs the load time for my instances of Vienna Symphonic Library went from minutes to seconds.  I can load my entire orchestra preset in about 20 seconds now (I haven't timed it though, that's just a guess).
     
    That said, I never encountered a problem where it took "minutes" for True Pianos to load.
    #23
    M@
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 16:53:22 (permalink)
    SimpleM
    Just did a few loading tests on my system.

    Twin 2.27 Ghz Xenon processors
    18gb ram
    6970 Ati Vid card 2gb ram
    120 Gb SSD OS drive
    500GB Data SATA
    500GB Sample SATA

    True Pianos 1/2 second load
    Rapture pro, instant load, instant patch change
    Addictive Drums 2, 5 second to insert, instant patch change.

    You have some problem other than Memory.  The old 24gb was more than enough.
     
     
     




     
    Hey SimpleM,
     
    remember this post:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3323096
     
    So I assume you solved your problem...... What did the trick?

    Tracking: Sonar Platinum (X3 Producer, X2 studio, X1 expanded, 8.3) (64bit)
    System: Win10 Pro (64bit), Asus  P8Z77 V Le Plus, I7-3770k, 16GB Ram, SSD System drive, Raid1 Recording & Backup drive, VS-700 Set, TC Konnekt 48
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    #24
    SimpleM
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 20:14:57 (permalink)
    M@



     
    Hey SimpleM,
     
    remember this post:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3323096
     
    So I assume you solved your problem...... What did the trick?



    Actually I just learned to live with it but found a new problem, sound degradation in Rapture Pro when playing back Dim Pro samples.

    Did a reinstall with OS on SSD and both issues took care of themselves.  Now, for some reason all my extra libraries are gone from Rapture Pro's interface.  All show installed in CCC and I sent them all down the same exact path as I did the stock Rapture Pro libraries.

    I am just destined not to play well with that Synth.
    #25
    John T
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    Re: 128 GB Ram for Sonar Platinum and still having problem to load Libraries 2016/03/24 21:12:11 (permalink)
    Ah, there's a weird thing with how you add sample libraries to Rapture, and I've completely forgotten what it is. Perhaps someone will chime in. As I recall, there's a really un-intuitive extra step you have to do to get it to register the extra sounds.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
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    #26
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