Helpful Reply1/3/17 Update: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates

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Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
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2016/12/08 15:23:33 (permalink)

1/3/17 Update: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates

1/3/17 Update:
Hey Folks,
 
Rapture Pro & Session Update 5 is now available for Early Access. This update resolves the crash with recent Windows 10 updates. It is recommended for all Rapture Pro & Session users experiencing this issue to use this latest Early Access version. There are also several additional fixes and Enhancements. Please see our post in the instruments forum for more informations.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3540213
 
12/20/16 Update:
 
Hey Folks,
There seems to be a couple workarounds for users related to this issue with recent Windows 10 updates. We are working with Microsoft on the issue and have plans to update select Cakewalk plug-ins affected soon. If you are experiencing this issue with one of our Cakewalk plug-ins or a 3rd party plug-in please try one of the following. We will keep you all updated on any new developments as they arise.
 
Run SONAR in Compatibility Mode:
How to Run SONAR in compatibility mode:
    1. Right-Click on the SONAR shortcut or EXE
    2. Select Properties
    3. Click on the Compatibility tab
    4. Check the box for Compatibility mode
    5. Select either Windows 8 or Windows 7 from the list
    6. Click Apply and press OK
Run Resource Monitor (Process Monitor):
Since this issue is related to timing it was discovered that running Resource Monitor in the background was enough to adjust the timing of things on the system to mask the crash:
  1. Open Task Manager by pressing [Ctrl]+[Shift]+[Esc]
  2. Click on the Performance Tab
  3. Click on the Open Resource Monitor link at the bottom
  4. Minimize the window
 
Original Post:
It has come to our attention that a recent Windows 10 update has introduced instability in a subset of our plug-ins and may cause SONAR or other Windows DAWs to crash. The problem is related to a change in the timing for thread initialization on Windows, which leads to intermittent crashing on project load, plug-in scanning, or adding these plug-ins to a project. We are able to reproduce the issue and it appears to only affect some systems since it is timing related. We are actively working on a resolution and will release fixes to the affected plugins as soon as possible.

Plug-ins that may be affected:
  • CA-2A
  • Rapture Pro
  • Rapture Session
  • Z3TA+2
We appreciate your patience while we work to resolve this issue,
- Cakewalk
post edited by Lance Riley [Cakewalk] - 2017/01/03 16:01:48

Lance Riley
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#1
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 15:45:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2016/12/08 19:33:56
Glad you guys are on the case.
 
I can confirm that all 4 plugins mentioned all stalled at different times during any sort of VST scan.

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 15:58:15 (permalink)
Thanks Lance!
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 16:49:10 (permalink)
Thank you but in case you are not aware, it's not just Cakewalk Plug-ins. 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 16:49:42 (permalink)
Hi. Good to know that you guys are on top of this.
I have not been affected by this.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 16:51:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mitch_I 2016/12/10 12:36:29
That explains why the symptoms disappear whenever I'm running Process Monitor. I figured it had to be a timing or race problem. I don't suppose you'd happen to have an MSDN link or something?


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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 17:19:51 (permalink)
Yes, it also happens with:-
 
Chromaphone
Aria Player
Kontakt 5 player
AAS Player
Novation Bass Station
 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 17:48:17 (permalink)
@Lance
The heads up is -greatly- appreciated. Spares us a bit of head banging. Feel free to sign me up for any testing if you come up with a fix over the next few days. 
 
@jemodu
Have not seen any issue with any other VSTs. From your list I only have the Aria and AAS players but they're scanning, loading and playing as before. Issues were reported with the BT Trackbox, but I'm not able to duplicate them either. 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 17:54:42 (permalink)
Also happens with LP EQ
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 19:57:45 (permalink)
Happening to me for sure. Though not with Zeta+2
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 20:20:24 (permalink)
jemodu
Yes, it also happens with:-
 
Chromaphone
Aria Player
Kontakt 5 player
AAS Player
Novation Bass Station
 


Yes, Kontakt 5 has been a stuttering, buzzing, dropout prone mess since this update! Glad to hear the baker's are all over this! Looking forward to the fix!

Peace!
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 22:03:35 (permalink)
With the transport stopped, I saw signal coming through the spectral analyzer in digicheck (nothing was set to input echo on). I ran it down to a single track that had PC EQ, LA-2A and Tube PC Module. I turned them off. there was a bump at like 200 hz that seemed to come from the EQ. The tube was creating a lot of low end noise. Turning them off fixed it. At first, when I turned them back on the noise returned. Now, it doesn't any more.
 
** Days later, I'm not able to reproduce this anymore **
 
post edited by gswitz - 2016/12/10 07:06:03

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitman
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/08 22:47:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/12/12 14:03:34
Sleep(100) ;
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 07:02:48 (permalink)
bitman
Sleep(100) ;


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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 11:14:47 (permalink)
A symptom I see lately is things work fine for a while, then after performing some edit or action SONAR seems to slow so much it's unusable.  The audio engine can't be started, and trying to do anything results in the spinning circle for 10s of seconds.  The project can be saved at this point, though it takes a long time.  Restarting SONAR resolves the problem.
 
This isn't a CPU related slowdown, the CPU usage is only around 7% when this is going on.
 
I'm trying to work on a set of steps to reproduce this but so far it seems kind or random.  Could this be related to this problem?  Seemed to show up with recent Win 10 updates.  I haven't kept track of which plugs I am using when the problem happens, but I will now.  If this isn't related (and it seems like it might not be based on the proposed root cause)  to this issue I'll start a new thread once I work out a way to reproduce.

Wait, wait, what key is it in? 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 11:16:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby AudioAnnihilator 2016/12/10 11:44:24
Or you can keep Windows DAW machine offline and stick with stable setup.
 
Just saying...

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 11:24:47 (permalink)
MandolinPicker
Or you can keep Windows DAW machine offline and stick with stable setup.
 
Just saying...


Yeah, the forced updates in Win 10 are really a pain, since you kind of have to make an effort to work around them.  It's difficult these days to keep a machine offline (at least for me) but it's definitely an option.

Wait, wait, what key is it in? 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 11:50:11 (permalink)
dlesaux
jemodu
Yes, it also happens with:-
 
Chromaphone
Aria Player
Kontakt 5 player
AAS Player
Novation Bass Station
 


Yes, Kontakt 5 has been a stuttering, buzzing, dropout prone mess since this update! Glad to hear the baker's are all over this! Looking forward to the fix!




Cake has said the issue was with their plugins and not the SONAR core code.  It sounds like any fix for Kontakt 5, and some other 3rd party plugins will have to come from the developers of those plugins.  The fix from Cakewalk won't address those, as I understand it.

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 12:07:26 (permalink)
I haven't updated to 11-16 yet, (10-16) but am also having instability issues I've never
seen before. Yesterday Sonar would crash just changing screen sets! I'm on Windows
10. It sure feels like a windows update messed with a very stable system here.
 
I would have sent in a crash report but Sonar never gave me one after crashing.
My present workaround is to feverishly save after every edit. :)
 
Sometimes it still works well, other times it can go poof just looking at it.
 I really appreciate the heads up from Cakewalk that there are problems. We've all
seen companies that do NOT communicate with their customers. I've been using
Cake products for a long time. I'll be patient because I know there are good people here
working to fix it!

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 12:18:49 (permalink)
Ah, SONAR has been crashing on startup for me, maybe because RapPro is in my default template. Any way to start the program bypassing normal template?

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 12:22:23 (permalink)
It's in preferences somewhere.
Start sonar in safe mode. Control on start;right?

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 13:09:34 (permalink)
jackson white
@jemodu
Have not seen any issue with any other VSTs. From your list I only have the Aria and AAS players but they're scanning, loading and playing as before. Issues were reported with the BT Trackbox, but I'm not able to duplicate them either. 



It seems this problem causes the system to "teeter on the edge." Sometimes things fall off, sometimes not. I can do multiple sessions in a row and everything works fine, then opening up the same project later can cause a crash. 
 
Lance, thanks for the update. Much appreciated. FYI - I'm also having anomalies with 2016.10 on my desktop, and these issues started at the same time as the anomalies with 2016.11. This supports your saying the issues are due to changes in Windows, and are not specific to 2016.11.

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 13:15:11 (permalink)
My Sonar Platinum crashed today during VST scan. On attempting again, the next crash came up with a message indicating a problem related to my new keyboard (Nektar LS-88+). Crash report to send to Cakewalk. Since it was also during the VST scan, very possible that the "timing" issues are the problem.  After rebooting the computer and attempting to open Sonar, I got a message from Sonar that there is no audio device and that I'll need to indicate one in preferences. At least no crash this time. Outside of Sonar, computer plays sound fine. Inside Sonar, edit preferences no longer shows my Edirol UA-101 device, so nothing available to select. Just about as bad as a crash to have a music program unable to make sound. Since this also is during startup, I'll assume the Windows update issues are contributing. Since Cakewalk works closely with Microsoft, I hope the bakers will let Microsoft know how disruptive their involuntary "updates" have been.

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rwheeler
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 14:19:11 (permalink)
Shortly after I typed my message here, Windows popped open a message that it would need to schedule a restart. I closed open applications, rebooted, watched the messages about Windows installing yet another update, then watched the reboot happen. Just for fun I tried opening Sonar again. It opened normally. No issue with VST scan. No issue with missing audio device. I opened my recent project to find it working just fine again. Here's hoping this new update actually patched the underlying issue (although I understand the issues have been inconsistent for others, so I won't celebrate too strongly until the improvement clearly persists).

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 15:35:15 (permalink)
Hey - just checking in.  Haven't done the 2016-11 update yet, but am running with an offline machine (Windows 7 Home Premium and i7-970 processor). 
 
Anyone with Win 7 seen issues with this update?
 
I'm up for doing the install but can easily way for a more stable update, if that it what is necessary.
 
By the way, I tried doing the Screenset install (with 2016-6, I think) and it failed (I think due to my machine being at the Windows 7 baseline level), I reported it, but just want to shout out that a few of us have remained with that OS version, so please consider that when you move forward.
 
Much appreciated.
 
Best,
Jim 
 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 17:15:16 (permalink)
rwheeler
Shortly after I typed my message here, Windows popped open a message that it would need to schedule a restart. I closed open applications, rebooted, watched the messages about Windows installing yet another update, then watched the reboot happen. Just for fun I tried opening Sonar again. It opened normally. No issue with VST scan. No issue with missing audio device. I opened my recent project to find it working just fine again. Here's hoping this new update actually patched the underlying issue (although I understand the issues have been inconsistent for others, so I won't celebrate too strongly until the improvement clearly persists).

 
I can confirm the new cumulative update (KB3201845) fixed the Plugin Scanning issues for me.
#26
gustabo
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 17:30:48 (permalink)
FWIW, I just received a Microsoft update, KB3201845 on Win10.
I did not have the crash issues before (last update from Microsoft that I received before this was Nov. 9) and I don't have any afterwards.
Just tested a new project with multiple insertions of Z3TA +2, CA2A, LP EQ and LP MB.


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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 18:02:23 (permalink)
soundtweaker
rwheeler
Shortly after I typed my message here, Windows popped open a message that it would need to schedule a restart. I closed open applications, rebooted, watched the messages about Windows installing yet another update, then watched the reboot happen. Just for fun I tried opening Sonar again. It opened normally. No issue with VST scan. No issue with missing audio device. I opened my recent project to find it working just fine again. Here's hoping this new update actually patched the underlying issue (although I understand the issues have been inconsistent for others, so I won't celebrate too strongly until the improvement clearly persists).

 
I can confirm the new cumulative update (KB3201845) fixed the Plugin Scanning issues for me.



That is odd that Microsoft shipped out a cumulative update for Windows 10, version 1607, on a Friday before patch Tuesday.
http://news.softpedia.com...kb3201845-510849.shtml

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#28
...wicked
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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 18:15:30 (permalink)
oy when it rains it pours. Following this I noticed I had Win updates that didn't go in right, now I'm upstream problem solving. What is this, the 90's?
 

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Re: Instability with certain Cakewalk plugins after recent Windows 10 updates 2016/12/09 19:35:08 (permalink)
Symptoms did not change for me after the KB3201845 update. My test case is inserting CA-2A into a new project after rebooting, which consistently raises a stack overrun exception.


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