15VDC Phantom Power? (Yamaha EMX mixers)

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mettelus
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2014/10/13 20:30:26 (permalink)

15VDC Phantom Power? (Yamaha EMX mixers)

I replaced my outboard mixer with a Yamaha EMX 212/312/512 series a few months ago and remember this striking me as odd but forgot to ask until today. The phantom power is only 15VDC which sticks out since I would expect 48VDC. Does anyone have insight into why it is only 15VDC? I have yet to plug a condenser into this (and no clue how it would affect mic performance), but the phantom power switch also enables voltage to all (8) XLR jacks which also limits its usefulness.

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    rumleymusic
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    Re: 15VDC Phantom Power? (Yamaha EMX mixers) 2014/10/15 13:40:12 (permalink)
    It is a power saving measure, not unrealistic especially considering the wide use of dynamic microphones for live sound.  15v is also unlikely to damage the output of external preamps or other devices/microphones.  Most small diaphragm and stage phantom powered mics are designed to operate from 9v-48v phantom power with no loss of capability.  Microphones that operate with +-48v only will still work but with less headroom/output.  

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    wst3
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    Re: 15VDC Phantom Power? (Yamaha EMX mixers) 2014/10/15 13:57:25 (permalink)
    The document that provides the generally accepted definition for Phantom Power is IEC EN 61938. It's expensive, so I'll summarize. There are two standards:
    • P48 must provide 48 VDC +/-4VDC @ 10 mA per microphone
    • P12 must provide 12 VDC +/- 1VDC @ 15 mA per microphone
    There was a third standard, P24, but I believe it was removed from the standard.
     
    Some folks get a little 'generous' with the standard, and interpret it as ranging from 9V to 52V. You'll see this in various specifications. It is not entirely accurate, but as it turns out there is no harm done.
     
    And in the real world most microphones will operate from a 15V phantom supply, even though it isn't a standard. I can think of two that simply collapse for lack of power (AKG C-414, AKG C-451), and one that gets downright nasty (Neumanm TLM-193, probably also the TLM-103).
     
    The penalty will be reduced headroom.
     
    Other than testing to satisfy my curiosity I don't use non-standard phantom supplies, and I always modify devices that switch phantom power in banks so I can kill it per channel. I also keep a stand-alone phantom supply around. I think it makes an audible difference, but I will concede that it is minimal.
     

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    johnnyV
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    Re: 15VDC Phantom Power? (Yamaha EMX mixers) 2014/10/16 00:17:33 (permalink)
    It's a entry level mixer so lacks many features found as you go up the scale, Individual phantom power switches per channel is rare until you get way up there. Some will group them in sets of 4 or 8. If it's like my MX82 only the first 4 channels have phantom. Most small mixers are like that. It's common to see the first mono channels with phantom, but the channels with both mike and stereo inputs are not. 
    There are some things that do not like phantom and it's the bane of live sound where people unplug stuff without warning. I have lost pre amps to this a few times now. 
     
    Those mixers are not good for much as they are grossly under powered and then as a small mixer lack a lot of features you will get for the same money if it was passive. And when something dies you loose it all. Seen this a few times. If your using it as a passive mixer it's sitting there sucking way too much power for nothing. And they are usually a little noisy.  
    I think that now powered speakers are the norm there is no market for powered mixers anymore so you see them discontinued. Swiss army knife passive mixers are certainly inexpensive now. 
     
    PS.. that's the 5th time today I've gone to Yamaha's web site looking something up and I'm finding it very sparse. There is very little info anymore, even new products. Yamaha used to be good at posting honest specs. 

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    mettelus
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    Re: 15VDC Phantom Power? (Yamaha EMX mixers) 2014/10/17 02:21:50 (permalink)
    Thank you for the responses. This is not something that will probably ever leave the room, and I can attest to the fact that it really doesn't have the kick for a live setting anyway (just about every review I read before I bought it made a comment about this). It is more for convenience at home with different setups I use - plus I like the small footprint and fact that the power button is on the face TBH (I can power up all of my gear without leaving my chair now).
     
    I saw a similar post on another forum which basically said the same thing; essentially that most condensers will "work" within a wide band (they quoted 9-52 VDC), but the higher you get up the food chain the 48 +/- 4 VDC is a must or they won't work (like the AKG C-414/C-451 mentioned above). It makes a lot of sense from the basis of "live settings" and people errantly plugging/unplugging XLRs with 48V phantom power on.
     
    I honestly doubt I will ever plug a condenser into this thing, but the 15 VDC stuck me as so odd that I was curious about it. I am also not savvy at all about condensers so the enlightenment is most appreciated (I only own one low-end large diaphragm condenser (MXL V63M), and it was so sensitive in my pathetically inadequate environment that I switched back to the dynamics I have been using for 20+ years within a few uses).

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