2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart.

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ChuckC
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2011/11/19 09:06:55 (permalink)

2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart.

I have 2 new original songs I have been working on for my band, both are similar in that the instrumentation for both is the typical Drums, bass, 2 guitars, 2 vocals.  Both rock songs though they vary in style a bit.
 
  We just laid the vocal tracks thursday night for both and after running off rough mixes of the two yesterday one is nearly complete.  It sounds great, everything fits, works together, nothing is stepping on anything else and its all clear.  Kinda has that "everything louder than everything else" thing going on.   I love it.
  
    The other however,  is set up is set up very much the same, similar eq's for the guitars (though done separately) solid bass sound and using the same drums,  but it all sounds like a freakin mess.  The bass doesn't have the same depth, the guitars sound thinner and more tinny.  Drums sound like they are a different kit and the whole thing just is not gellin' together (maybe I need to get some new shoe insoles...haha   gellin?  I digress).
    So does this sound like Mix problems?  or tracking problems?  I am thinking it maybe time to take this one back to the drums and start tracking everything else again.     Maybe the sounds I captured (though similar to the other) are just not going to work for this track?  Maybe I need to just compress they living _ _ _ _ out of it to stick it together?
 
Ideas?  Insights?
post edited by ChuckC - 2011/11/19 09:10:39

ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    Rain
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 09:18:50 (permalink)
    How about posting snippets of each song? I understand you may be reluctant sharing unfinished work though, but I can't think of any better option. :s

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
    #2
    ChuckC
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 09:31:19 (permalink)
    Well it's more that it's such a pita to load it up, get it converted to mp3 host it to Soundclick,reverbnation etc.  to get them up here.   I know that would help and I guess I may have to... I was kinda wondering if everybody hits this particular wall at some point or another?  what has worked for them?  

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
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    Rain
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 10:04:09 (permalink)
    Dropbox is great for that kind of stuff. ;)

    Based on the description you gave above, I have seen that too, in the past, but never could come up w/ a logical explanation, except that the song/arrangement causes instruments to work against each other instead of complementing. One instrument may be busier in one of the cuts and just end up competing against guitars or whatnot. It's like, in theory, it should work, but it just doesn't. 

    Since I work alone, I end up re-tracking most of the time, or if it's the drums and none of the usual tricks work, I'll extract the midi groove and use samples to enhance the existing material. But this only goes to show that this stuff happens, even when we think there's no reason for it.

    Judging from the previous mixes of yours I've heard, I doubt I can offer much help as you seem to be doing pretty good - plus, I'm working on my portable rig w/ my little travel monitors. Not the best tools to analyze a mix. Still, maybe someone else will chime in...

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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    ChuckC
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 10:26:35 (permalink)
    Yeah the song I am having trouble with is a rock song with a bit of a punk edge to it.  On this song I play the drums (we switch around alot with this band) and the snare kinda pushes the song along a bit.

    One guitar in the verses is doing a nice tight palm muted bar chord part with accents, the other is rolling through a more open sounding pattern of open chords (also distorted).  I have not been crazy about the sound of this guitar piece ever since we recorded it to be honest.
    It's a pain in the ass sometimes trying to balance bettween
    "hey man, that sounds a little off for this song, you might reconsider..."
    and just flat out stomping on ego's, for the good of the song.

    The bass is not busy at all,  My bass player is solid, tight, consistant... anything but busy though.   Good guy, but he is a guitarist's bass player,  stays in the pocket without much flare.  I however, am a nutcase on the bass.  I find it so easy it's kinda boring so I get real creative & then have to reel my parts back into sanity.

    Rain, you may have (at least partly) answered my question for me by pushing in the right direction.
    Sometimes just saying it out loud (or typing) makes you go..... "yeah man that guitar part IS too damn busy!"    I'll see what I can come up with from here.  
    BTW ... Thanks for the compliment on the past mixes bro!
    post edited by ChuckC - 2011/11/19 10:28:21

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
    http://www.stormroomstudios.com
    Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
    #5
    Rain
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 11:31:44 (permalink)
    I usually find that when the arrangement really works, mixing is a lot easier. Unfortunately, that sometimes means cutting off or modifying something you really like in the song. Happened quite a few times that my favorite guitar line, the funniest to play or the one around which I thought the whole song worked, ended up being scrapped from the project, or key notes and punches redistributed among other instruments. 

    It's one thing to accept that when it's your song and your line, but it can be pretty hard to ask a fellow band member to change something in which they put their heart. Even more if it works "live" and in rehearsals, but not in the context of a mix. I guess that's why I ended up working alone. I am my own session player. ;)

    Worst case I guess you can pass it as a suggestion and let him work out something based on what the song needs, let the guy own his part. Downside being that if that doesn't work either, he'll be twice as pissed. lol
    post edited by Rain - 2011/11/19 11:34:58

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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    Rain
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 11:33:40 (permalink)
    duplicate


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    marcos69
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/19 15:24:36 (permalink)
    If the bass doesn't have the same depth and the guitars sound thinner, then, without having heard your song, it sounds like masking to me.  The lower frequencies of the guitar are cancelling out the bass and vice versa.  I would mix the drums and bass and get them where you need them and slowly work the guitars into the mix making sure they aren't sharing frequencies.   Of course actually hearing the track in question would be more beneficial to anyone trying to help.

    Mark Wessels

    At CD Baby

    At Soundclick
    #8
    ChuckC
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/22 02:49:13 (permalink)
    Well I think I got it beat into submission now.... 
    1) this bass guitar track was the last I recorded before I got a sans amp bass driver, I was trying to work with the track and get it to sound more crisp like those I have done with it since my purchase,  simply adding a little drive seemed like it worked but I found out... not so much!   Re-treacked the bassline with the sans amp and she sits where she should.  Crisp highs and a fat bottom.

    2)   Then,  re-tracked one of the guitar parts that was sounding thin and bright.   Double tracked it with a much warmer setting, then moved the mic on the 2nd pass to get a slightly brighter tone than the 1st one.  Threw out the old tracks. 

    It is finally sounding like a professional mix.  As soon as I get it done I will post it up.  Thanks for the help everyone!
    post edited by ChuckC - 2011/11/22 02:50:15

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
    http://www.stormroomstudios.com
    Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
    #9
    Rain
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    Re:2 new songs nearly done. 1 Sounds glued together, the other... Seems to fall apart. 2011/11/22 07:46:05 (permalink)
    Glad to read that. Looking forward to hear the results.

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    #10
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