michaelhanson
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25W Green Back
Is a 20W Tube Head, generally considered to much for a 25w Green Back speaker to handle in a single 1 x 12 cabinet?
I have the 20w Peavey Classic head and I need to pick up a speaker cab for this little guy. Guitar Center has a close out deal on a Fargen 1 x 12 speaker cab with a Warehouse Guitar Speakers Green Beret, near me. I am intrigued.
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batsbrew
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 11:43:23
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all depends,
on how loud you play.
a 20 w amp will have a much higher peak output depending on how much gain, and how you tweak the front end of the amp.
that said, VH runs a 100 watt head into a sig cab, that says it's rated for 100 watts, but only has (4) 20 w celestions in it....
fuzzy math?
i'd say, if you are not running it wide open, it might be the perfect fit.
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michaelhanson
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 12:11:04
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Oops, I meant to post this in the Hardware Forum. Oh, well....Mod's will probably eventually move it. Thanks for the reply, Bat. The actual cabinet made for this head has a Celestion V30 in it. I may hold out for that yet. I would most likely have to order it, however...these little amps don't seem to be hitting the retail stores yet, even though they have been out for a while. Like you have stated, though, I probably won't every dime the amp, so it may work great. I probably need to go test drive the speaker up at GC to hear what a Green Beret sounds like.
post edited by michaelhanson - 2016/01/06 12:26:10
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batsbrew
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 12:52:26
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i run my 60 watt boogie, into a single 1x12 cab with a Celestion Heritage G12H(55) that is only 30 watts...
and my other two cabs with greenbacks, still don't match the total output,
but i don't dime them anymore, so it's all good.
then, you are more talking about matching the impedence and EFFICIENCY to the amp....
lower watt speakers, with less efficient drivers, aren't as loud, which sometimes, is the perfect thing for driving an amp a bit harder, without the volume.
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bluzdog
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 13:59:22
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michaelhanson
Is a 20W Tube Head, generally considered to much for a 25w Green Back speaker to handle in a single 1 x 12 cabinet?
I have the 20w Peavey Classic head and I need to pick up a speaker cab for this little guy. Guitar Center has a close out deal on a Fargen 1 x 12 speaker cab with a Warehouse Guitar Speakers Green Beret, near me. I am intrigued.
Short answer is no. Any chance you can you try it out with your head? Rocky
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rsinger
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 14:03:16
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I have an 18 watt tube amp going into a greenback and haven't had any problems. It's a clone of a Marshall 1974. Driving the speaker until it breaks up is part of the appeal of this amp, just like old tweeds :) Depends on what sound you want - I really like the Greenback.
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ampfixer
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 14:52:20
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Warehouse Guitar Speakers makes an excellent product. Many factors effect the power ratings and you will usually see builders using lower wattage speakers in closed back cabs. The air sealed in the cab acts as a shock absorber and limits the cone movement. This allows you to run more power into it without damage and gives a more controlled, compressed sound. This is how they can advertise a 100 watt cab with 4, 20 watt drivers.
Another thing to think about is your desired tone. If you want a warm sound with good bottom then go for a higher wattage driver. If you want more distortion and drive then get something close to the amps' rating. My personal favourite is the Celestion G12-30 pre China.
WGS makes a model called the Reaper and it comes in a standard, 55hz and high power version. I use them as a standard driver for my low power amp builds and they are way less money than the Celestions from China. They are made in Kentucky, USA.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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michaelhanson
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 15:56:22
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Rocky- Possibly.
Rsinger- Thank you for that info. That's a little more assuring to know that someone is running something similar.
John- I was really hoping that you would respond. All VERY good info. I have heard really good things about WGS speakers and that is what immediately drew interest from me in this cabinet. Very interesting your comments on warm sounding, in relation to driver. I would have never thought of that. I do like warmth in my tone, but I also like early break up.
The Peavey head can be switched from 20w to 5w or down to 1w. Most of the time, it will probably be played in my studio at either 1w or 5w for recording and recreational play. It may venture onto stage with my Worship Band as needed. In that case it would probably be used at 20w. Then again....it could get mic'd.
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ampfixer
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/06 17:50:19
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☄ Helpfulby bluzdog 2016/01/06 21:04:11
Right now my main amp is a single ended class A model producing about 8 watts. I'm using the WGS Veteran 30 that is rated for about 50 watts in an open back single 12 cab. It drips with tone. Huge bass response and very clear treble and mids. In fact, I designed the amp as a utility item for recording studios. You can plug any instrument into it for recording. It runs a guitar but will also allow you to run a 5 string bass with active electronics (using an appropriate speaker cab). Try that with a Fender champ.  Many years ago, it was a conversation with the late Ted Weber that hipped me to the relationship between warmth and power handling. Ted understood speakers like nobody else so I listened to every word. Acoustics and the mechanics of hearing are very strange things. I would bet that the difference in your amp sound between the 5 watt and 20 watt settings is very similar until it gets wound up. Our ears and brain don't tell us the same things about sound that measuring equipment does. If you wanted an amp louder than your 20 watt model you should start looking at 80 watts and up. In your case I would recommend getting a cheap VOX cab on sale. I picked one up for $100. Take out the Chinese greenback and replace it with a WGS Reaper. You have plenty of power to get it working. Another option is to get the same speaker with the 55 Hz cone. Typically these have way less doping on the surround and tend to let the cone move more. It's rumoured that the Celestion G12-30 55Hz is the speaker that Hendrix used in his Marshalls, but I have no direct knowledge.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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batsbrew
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/07 11:10:49
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tlw
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/07 16:22:14
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The Chinese-made greenbacks are pretty reasonable speakers as it happens.
Tone-wise the V30 (and the neodymium magnet Century Vintage) are both pretty bright, I've a Century Vintage in an Orange cab I converted to a half open back and it will let my Tiny Terror cut through anything with the master around three quarters and gain around half way.
As for the power rating, I'd say 25W is probably OK, though I wouldn't push it too hard. Marshall and similar amps tend to have conservative ratings, hence Marshall recommended two cabs be used with the 100 watt heads.
For more volume a more efficient speaker is a good way to go rather than more amp power if you want a cranked tone.
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batsbrew
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/07 16:26:59
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man, i've got a V30, and just hate it.
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Cactus Music
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/08 10:14:15
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I have a 12" 25W Green back in a cabnet and it works great with my Princeton ( 22watts)
The Princeton is 10" open back and the 12" is a closed back cabinet so it's two very different tones
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BobF
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/08 21:08:44
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ampfixer
Right now my main amp is a single ended class A model producing about 8 watts. I'm using the WGS Veteran 30 that is rated for about 50 watts in an open back single 12 cab. It drips with tone. Huge bass response and very clear treble and mids. In fact, I designed the amp as a utility item for recording studios. You can plug any instrument into it for recording. It runs a guitar but will also allow you to run a 5 string bass with active electronics (using an appropriate speaker cab). Try that with a Fender champ.
Many years ago, it was a conversation with the late Ted Weber that hipped me to the relationship between warmth and power handling. Ted understood speakers like nobody else so I listened to every word.
Acoustics and the mechanics of hearing are very strange things. I would bet that the difference in your amp sound between the 5 watt and 20 watt settings is very similar until it gets wound up. Our ears and brain don't tell us the same things about sound that measuring equipment does. If you wanted an amp louder than your 20 watt model you should start looking at 80 watts and up.
In your case I would recommend getting a cheap VOX cab on sale. I picked one up for $100. Take out the Chinese greenback and replace it with a WGS Reaper. You have plenty of power to get it working. Another option is to get the same speaker with the 55 Hz cone. Typically these have way less doping on the surround and tend to let the cone move more. It's rumoured that the Celestion G12-30 55Hz is the speaker that Hendrix used in his Marshalls, but I have no direct knowledge.
I've had WGS on my list for quite a while, but haven't heard them. For general use from clean to heavy dist, realizing one won't be ideal for all, would you recommend the Veteran 30 or Reaper? It will likely start life in my Bugera V22 combo which I also use as a 1x12 cab for other amps. One day a proper cab will be it's home if it "drips tone".
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michaelhanson
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/08 21:25:24
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I went in to test drive the Green Beret, but couldn't get sound to come out of the speaker cabinet. I have a feeling that there may be something wrong with the speaker jack on the back. GC was extremely crowded on this lunch hour, so for now, I walked away from it.
I spotted a new Fender Bass Breaker Cabinet with a 1x12 Celestion G12V-70. I hope to go back and test that. Any one have any experience with this speaker?
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tlw
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/08 22:55:58
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tlw
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/08 22:59:36
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batsbrew
man, i've got a V30, and just hate it.
I'm not keen on them either. The Century Vintage is sort of the same idea but sounds a but less bright and faster responding. Has a bit of a Jensen flavour mixed in with the Celestion and less of that kind of "haze" round notes the greenbacks have if you see what I mean. Works quite well with my Orange which is a quite dark amp. Better than the stock V30 in the Orange cab anyway. V30s with a bright Marshall can be painful
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Ibanez Laney
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/09 10:59:58
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michaelhanson
I spotted a new Fender Bass Breaker Cabinet with a 1x12 Celestion G12V-70. I hope to go back and test that. Any one have any experience with this speaker?
Not that exact one but similar. I have 2 x http://celestion.com/product/14/g12_century_vintage/ in a 100w combo and they are nice. I took it for some repairs a while back and the tech ended up ordering a set for his amp after hearing them. (+ they are lighter than a speaker with a ceramic magnet which is a nice bonus)
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ampfixer
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/10 01:03:34
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I've had WGS on my list for quite a while, but haven't heard them. For general use from clean to heavy dist, realizing one won't be ideal for all, would you recommend the Veteran 30 or Reaper?
It will likely start life in my Bugera V22 combo which I also use as a 1x12 cab for other amps. One day a proper cab will be it's home if it "drips tone".
I'd probably go for the Veteran 30. It's warmer and they have a more linear frequency response than the Celestion V30. They describe the Reaper as a drop in replacement for a Celestion G12H30 Anniversary. I don't know how they can say that. One has a resonant frequency of 75 Hz and the other has a resonant frequency of 126 Hz. They are both good speakers.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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BobF
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/10 08:00:31
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Thanks John ... warmer would be my pref as long as it's not wool blanket
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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batsbrew
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/10 11:42:30
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if you want to hear a heritage g12h-55 in action,
just listen to any of the many tunes i post.
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michaelhanson
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/18 16:22:50
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So I ended up going with this new Fender Bassbreaker cabinet for my Classic 20w Head. It's got the one 12 inch, 8 Ohm, 70w Celestion V-Type speaker. So far, I am liking it. It's already found its way on to my next recordings. I appreciate every ones advice on this subject. 
post edited by michaelhanson - 2016/01/18 16:51:27
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jbow
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/22 21:44:50
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I bet it sounds a lot better than the Peavey Classic 20 combo. I had one of them and it had a really "boxy" sound. IDK how else to describe it. I gave it away. This head looks interesting though. I did have a Peavey Delta Blues 1x12 combo that sounded nice. I was always interested in trying a Classic 100, though I wouldn't want to retube it (8 el84s plus however many preamp tubes). I bet they have some kind of nice headroom and probably kill in one way or another. They used to make them in a full stack in tweed.
I'm going to take a look at that head when I get a chance. I'd be interested to know what you think of it after then "new" wears off.
J
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michaelhanson
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/23 19:57:32
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Julien, I've got a Classic 50/410 that I have owned for 15 years. It's an awesome working mans tube amp. It's heavy however. The micro head sounds very similar, yet, slightly different. I've had it for a while, I was just running it through the 410 cabinet. Looks like this.... 
post edited by michaelhanson - 2016/01/23 20:18:23
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Mystic38
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Re: 25W Green Back
2016/01/29 13:05:36
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I pulled the V30 from my Rocker 30 combo and replaced with the V type. They are really very similar, but the V type is a bit smoother and so just a little more polite in nature.. I love V30..but they do so much better in closed back cabs.. and they do need to be broken in... michaelhanson
I spotted a new Fender Bass Breaker Cabinet with a 1x12 Celestion G12V-70. I hope to go back and test that. Any one have any experience with this speaker?
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