Bub
Well, Jim Roseberry is one of, if not the, most respected, level headed, knowledgeable, helpful forum members here. I think I'll listen to what he has to say since he's an actual professional who builds DAW's for a living ...

Good, and so you should. I know others listen to Jim too. I'd also note that Jim builds plenty of 64bit systems, with lots of RAM and powerful processors.
So I guess by your account of things he's also been duped by the marketing hype, and sells people stuff they don't need ?.

You've picked up here on what is actually the most bizarre aspect of this bizarre argument. What Jim says and what I say are exactly the same thing: the only significant difference between 64 bit and 32 bit is in the memory usage thing.

John T

Bub
Well, Jim Roseberry is one of, if not the, most respected, level headed, knowledgeable, helpful forum members here. I think I'll listen to what he has to say since he's an actual professional who builds DAW's for a living ...

Good, and so you should. I know others listen to Jim too. I'd also note that Jim builds plenty of 64bit systems, with lots of RAM and powerful processors.
So I guess by your account of things he's also been duped by the marketing hype, and sells people stuff they don't need ?.

You've picked up here on what is actually the most bizarre aspect of this bizarre argument. What Jim says and what I say are exactly the same thing: the only significant difference is in the memory usage thing.

Damn you John, you made me log in again :-)

Yep, the whole angle is riduculous, and I think it's quite plain to see.
There's nothing wrong with a good debate, but what I see here is plain unhealthy !.
I don't normally bother wasting my time with this kind of ... tripe.

I'm leaving this thread now, and don't care to read any more nonsense.

People who are running capable systems with 64bit Sonar know the advantages.

Others want to take whatever argument they can against 64bit Sonar, or particular users who might post positively about it
for some wierd reason that makes no sense.  I'm sure most people can see right through it though.

Now I think I'll go set up a block so I don't have to even see the nonsense.

There's plenty of good, interesting stuff and people here to interact with - I'll just stick to that now.

Off to load a big project in my 64 bit Sonar and have some fun.

Take care, I'll catch you around here.

Cheers - Cliff

Actually until very recently I had so much 32 bit stuff I couldn't use on a 64bit system I even kept an XP install as a dual boot to cater for those requirements when I got my new machine together, which will remain there as it handles all my non-DAW tasks to save cluttering up the W7 64 install.

DAW wise the only thing I'm waiting for, as far as 64 bit goes is Rewire, which is on its way.

The main thing is that new even entry level machines are being shipped with the 64 bit OS and with $300 I7 chips now a reality, those two facts alone mean that the mass market is going to move that way exponentially from here on in, like it or not.

I've gotta say I like it all in all.

Jonbouy

From the currently running Coffee House 'fun words' thread. Just for the sake of brevity.  Bub you know I luv ya.

Buball (n)- A refuge or sanctuary where one can indulge in ones preferred beliefs free from fear of them being contaminated by facts or other unwelcome foreign influences.

Damn it! If I wouldn't lose my post count, I'd change my name to that!

I haven't even looked at that thread ... question ... has the word Strawman come up yet?

Strawman The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

Acrid acumen??

I am pissed about one thing ...

WHERE THE HELL IS X1C!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said all that John sorry if my words are a little confusing but you also validate my argument because this is where the computer has to work the hardest. If I had a 64 audio file, a 64 bit plug and a 64 bit synth and you are right it doesn't matter if it is a 32 bit system or a 64 bit system the system runs better and this is the same if we use a 32 bit example. Yea I know I have confused the issue because 32 bit computing and 64 bit computing and 32 bit recording and 64 bit recording are two different things, sorry I was a little drunk I think when I wrote what I wrote but my point still stands. The benefits of 64 bit computing are negligible at the moment unless you are going to use a 100 tracks of audio or create a digital orchestra. Ok sorry about that guys!!!

I wouldn't worry about it.  Its over now.

The needs argument isn't a good route to go down. I predict in another 100 or so posts in this thread someone will point out the only things you need are air, water & food.

Oh...... I just did, at least that's saved the next 99 posts.

FastBikerBoy


The needs argument isn't a good route to go down. I predict in another 100 or so posts in this thread someone will point out the only things you need are air, water & food. 

You forgot beer   And Mrs Brown's Boys
 

FastBikerBoy
 

Oh...... I just did, at least that's saved the next 99 posts.

It's a well known phenomenon that a thread is never truly over until it gets locked, or someone compares someone else to Hitler.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Now who is it that John reminds me of by telling us this thread is over
 

Jonbouy

To be fair John only said his argument was over, not the thread.

Bub was being a Strawman with the caboose I think...

I wouldn't say I was being a Strawman as much as I was just giving him a taste of his own medicine. See, he's always trying to control threads and when it doesn't go his way he basically tells you to stop talking. For example, "Lets stop this negative nonsense.", and "Its over now.".

But hey, I much prefer Johns approach as apposed to name calling, death threats, and praising that no good Mother-Fuhrer as we've seen so many times here in the recent past. LOL!

I'm pretty sure we are.

I've been studiously ignoring this thread based initially on its title, and later on the number of posts (almost always a bad sign ), but now that I've glanced through it...

I'm with the camp that says the performance difference between x86 and x64 is not "night and day". That's pure hyperbole. If you don't currently have or need the extra RAM that x64 supports, there is virtually no point in going there right now.
 
I did mainly because the "builder" copy of Win7 that shipped with my Quad processor upgrade did not include the x86 version, and partly because I thought the promise of improved performance, no matter how modest, would be nice. I only have 4GB of RAM, and do not currently own any synths or create projects that need more, so that was not a consideration.
 
Through much playing around, and some deliberate testing, I have been able to discern exactly zero performance improvement, and there have been a number of costs:

1. Loss of x86 DXis.
2. Loss of Rewire support.
3. The Bitbridge timing bug that adds an empty buffer of audio to some synth outputs (Dropzone to name one that is included with SONAR).
4. Other Bitbridge awkwardnesses and instability related to its running as a separate application process.
5. Buggy x64 drivers for my audio interface.

Some of this can be addressed by running x86 SONAR, but I prefer not to have to maintain two installs, and have been willing to put up with the compromises.

The Bitbridge problems were addressed by running most x86 plug-ins under Jbridge.

The x64 E-MU driver problems continue to plague me, and will necessitate a pricy interface upgrade and associated learning curve.

All things considered, I probably would not have made the move had I anticipated all the consequences, and if having my DAW work as well as possible were my only goal. I blame only myself for this choice, though the few datapoints I could find on how the E-MU would work under x64 were misleadingly positive.

But I have to say, also, that I like to stay somewhat current on technology (and need to for my work). And for that reason, I haven't been massively disappointed in the "upgrade". It's been a valuable learning experience.

brundlefly



1. Loss of x86 DXis.
2. Loss of Rewire support.
3. The Bitbridge timing bug that adds an empty buffer of audio to some synth outputs (Dropzone to name one that is included with SONAR).
4. Other Bitbridge awkwardnesses and instability related to its running as a separate application process.
5. Buggy x64 drivers for my audio interface.

Some of this can be addressed by running x86 SONAR, but I prefer not to have to maintain two installs, and have been willing to put up with the compromises.

The x64 E-MU driver problems continue to plague me, and will necessitate a pricy interface upgrade and associated learning curve.

I do maintain the two install precisely because of the caveats you cite there, Rewire for example I couldn't live without, and having the 32 bit version to hand is certainly much less effort than correcting some of the weirdness apparent running 32 plugs via a bridge.  The only consideration is keeping the VST folders synced up, the rest of it they share the same data and content.

As for the E-MU driver issue... sheesh over a year in beta with the same old version and they still see fit to bring out 'new' interfaces meantime.

The key to the transitional phase we are still in WRT to 64 bit despite it being not that new is user base, and for me it is the entry level users machines being equipped with a 64 bit and a massive price drop in some real hefty processors that herald the real change which undoubtedly isn't going to be backwards.

One thing I have noticed is the 4 gb memory that those that seem not to see much difference between 32 bits and 64 bits have. I wonder if that could be a reason. I have 8 gb and I notice a big difference.

John

One thing I have noticed is the 4 gb memory that those that seem not to see much difference between 32 bits and 64 bits have. I wonder if that could be a reason. I have 8 gb and I notice a big difference.

Hi John,

I swear I'm not saying this just to go against you, but I have to say I had 8GB of RAM in my DAW and saw absolutely no difference in Windows 7 x64 or Sonar x64 compared to when I switched back to 4GB. I stated earlier that I had 8GB of RAM but downgraded.

Now ... the difference may be your memory requirements are different than mine. It could be you go over the 4GB limit. I never have. I just checked, and my largest project consumes only 48% of my total system RAM (*), assuming the RAM indicator in X1 is accurate.

If you've always had 8GB, how do you know there's a difference or not between 4GB and 8GB? You know what I'm saying?

I haven't seen any specs come from you, if I missed them my apologies.

I'm running an i5 750 Quad with 4GB RAM on a Gigabyte Mobo.

What are you running?

(*) UPDATE: 90% of the samples I use stream off the disk. I'm sure my memory would be filled to the max if they were loaded in to RAM.