64 Bit + Dropouts = I have entered a world of pain and instability.

I'm in a serious world of pain with Sonar X3 Studio at the moment. Been using it with relatively few problems for the last 2 years or so but currently it's farting out on me and raining dropouts.

My computer is recent and pretty high (or should be high enough) spec - intel i7-4710HQ CPU @ 2.50Ghz, 16 GB RAM, running windows 8. My soundcard is an RME Fireface UC and I have the most recent drivers. My computer is not fragmented at all, I've just done a big disk clearup and removed a lot of old files from the computer, so I've got lots of hard disk space left. Not sure what the problem could be as it didn't affect previous projects. I had to struggle through the drum recording session and I'm wary and reluctant to try to carry on with the recording until I can fix this - it's a major pain losing a good take because the program has a dropout just before the bridge.

I've been experimenting with using 64bits with 44.1KHz and for this project and  it was working fine until a few days ago. On the current recording it's dropouts galore and I can't figure out if it's to do with the sample rate or some other more mysterious problem. I got so fed up that I reset the audio settings to default (which includes recording audio at 44.1KHz/24bit) and that seems to have done the job for now, except for a couple of things:

- When I arm a track or two to record mode, it automatically has a dropout notificaion even though i'm not playing/recording. This is a problem because I need to see the meters so I can set appropriate levels for the recorded signal. So far the only way to solve this is by turning the Red record button on and off on the track.

- When I try to record audio, the track will play one half a second and dropout. It will do this 3-5 times in a row before recording.

- When recording audio is actually successful, the audio file is placed in the session at a starting point later than when the file was recorded. ie If I record some guitars to a track, they will be recorded at a later time than when they were played so that to get them back in time I have to play a game of drag n drop - which I am seeking to solve.

I'm quite desperate to solve these problems as I can't really carry on recording with any confidence in my equipment if it isn't working. I'd also like to find out how to record at 64bit without everything ****ing up, because evverything I recorded at 64bit sounded amazing. Any help greatly appreciated.
 
PS If giving more specific details of settings etc might help diagnose my problems, then ask away and I will provide them.

Dave, thanks a bunch - that worked. Buffers were set too high on the soundcard. I don't understand why that delays the timing of the recorded audio though... Time to do some reading methinks.
 
The Driver mode on Sonar is WDM/KS. It seems that's what it need to be for my Fireface UC to work with it. When recording 44.1/24bit the recommended bit rate is 256, which is what I've set the soundcard and Sonar to. Seems to be working.

Go into device manager and see if any other audio drivers are installed. Also, can't you use ASIO with the RME? That alone might solve your issues.

Definitely try to use the ASIO driver.  It is far superior to either WDM or MME.

Gideon K
Anderton - The RME manual mentions SONAR specifically as using a WDM system and I've been using my soundcard in WDM mode for almost two years without a problem. I'm pretty sure it's simply to do with buffer size/bit depth settings and that sort of thing.

 
First, did you check Device Manager to see if other drivers were installed? In particular, check for alleged "HD" audio drivers as described in Week 35 in "Friday's Tip of the Week." 
 
The RME manual is right, SONAR can use WDM. However SONAR can also use ASIO. In all of my experiments with audio drivers and dozens of interfaces over the years, ASIO on average gives better performance. The only real advantage of WDM is that it can aggregate interfaces. This is why it's important to check what other drivers are "co-habitating" with the WDM driver you're using, if you insist on using WDM.
 
If you've updated Windows or your computer lately, added drivers (or re-enabling drivers that had been disabled) could enter into the picture that would interfere with performance. 
 
It's a simple matter to select ASIO in SONAR's preferences and see if that offers an improvement. But, also check Device Manager as I advised originally because "rogue" drivers can degrade ASIO as well as WDM performance.
 
FWIW WDM was a noble experiment to try to reduce latency with native Windows drivers, a la Core Audio for Mac. It never really got much traction; several interface drivers don't support it at all. Unless you want to sit around for a couple years, which is the last timetable I've heard from Microsoft for an internal audio engine protocol that can rival Core Audio, I highly advise using ASIO. 

One other thing - when you get the dropout notification, do you click on the Help button and follow the various steps to see if one of those remedies solves your problem?

Gideon K
Is it really necessary to uninstall the realtek sound card? I also use this laptop for non-music production things.

There is generally no need to uninstall the soundcard driver. Disabling onboard audio in device manager works just fine on most laptops.

I disabled it. Still getting problems though.

I started out today trying to record some guitars. Current settings at 44.1/24bit - shouldn't be taxing the system too much.

I record about 10 tracks of guitars, some I keep, some I delete, stop/start, working on amp sounds, mic placement etc. I decide to scrap the earlier takes and save them in a session then start a newer version of the track with those earlier takes not in it. I'm trying to get a full-take of the whole song, which is about 4mins 30 seconds and it starts giving me dropouts. Each successive take gives me a dropout at earlier and earlier points in the song.

I'm trying to follow the help guides, but I don't know where/how to begin.

Are you tracking with all your mix/monitor effects enabled ?
If so try this...
Hit the 'E' key to toggle effects to off.
Start with your buffers set to 256.
Record anything.
If no dropouts then your effects are loading your PC then try the following...
Keep lowering the buffer size and recording until you get dropouts. Double the buffer size.
This is your recording buffer size.
Any effects are not recorded so during tracking any effects are in the mix/monitor path only.
You can also selectively power off VSTs one at a time and see.
For mixing, enable your effects, increase your buffer size to 1024 and verify you are good with effects enabled.
This is your playback buffer size.
 

Maybe too obvious, but as it's not been mentioned:
You are using RMEs own ASIO drivers, not ASIO4ALL?
 
Quotes:"I've been experimenting with using 64bits with 44.1KHz and for this project and  it was working fine until a few days ago "
"...because everything I recorded at 64bit sounded amazing. Any help greatly appreciated."
 
I'm not sure I understand this correctly. You mean you have installed both 64 bit SONAR and 32 bit SONAR?
Using 32 bit or 64 bit OS and/or SONAR version does not affect the recording quality in any way, AFAIK.
There are no soundcards that can go above 24 bits anyway. The higher bit rates have an effect
in the internal processing of VSTs or SONAR.

FWIW I have encountered situations where merely having ASIO4ALL installed has interfered with other drivers to the point where you had to increase latency with the "real" drivers to unreasonable amounts so as not to have dropouts.
 
Standard disclaimer: ASIO4ALL works very well for some people with some systems, and horribly for other people with other systems. Like all kludges, performance is subject to change without notice depending on what else is happening with your system.

Anderton
FWIW I have encountered situations where merely having ASIO4ALL installed has interfered with other drivers to the point where you had to increase latency with the "real" drivers to unreasonable amounts so as not to have dropouts.
 
Standard disclaimer: ASIO4ALL works very well for some people with some systems, and horribly for other people with other systems. Like all kludges, performance is subject to change without notice depending on what else is happening with your system.

The system and setup have been working fairly painlessly for almost two years with ASIO4ALL also installed, so I don't think that is the primary cause of my issues.
 

kitekrazy1
intel i7-4710HQ CPU @ 2.50Ghz - there is your bottleneck.  You seem to mention more the bitrate instead of the buffer size.  You may have trouble having the ASIO set a 64.  Record dry add effects later.  You will not get desktop performance using a laptop.  

I do record dry. I mentioned this earlier. I'm not expecting desktop performance, but is it unreasonable to want a relatively stable recording system from a laptop?

In addition to scook's suggestion to look at the file system buffer sizes (not the same thing as the ASIO Buffer Size), I would suggest you try temporarily turning off or disabling your laptop's WiFi adapter, as that is often a problem for folks - where a WiFi adapter spikes the DPC Latency and causes audio streaming performance issues.
 
When I used to gig or record with a laptop, I would always go into Windows Device Manager and open the Properties for the WiFi, and then I would click Disable - just prior to launching Sonar, and that cleared up a bunch of audio problems - when finished with that Sonar session I would simply go back into Device Manager and click Enable on the WiFi, and all was back to normal for general use.
 
Bob Bone