7/4 time signature question

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rob.pulman
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2011/08/30 12:59:33 (permalink)

7/4 time signature question

Hi all,
I've come up with a riff in a 7/4 time signature (just for the sake of it really, always wanted to dabble with the unusual ones).

Yesterday I started thinking that it isn't really a 7/4, but a bar of 3/4 then a bar of 4/4.

This riff is going to be played over and over maybe 12 times, so it would be a real pain to split it into alternate bars of 3/4 and 4/4.

Daft question probably, but am I sort of cheating by calling it 7/4 time signature?

Stoojo Music

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    drewfx1
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/08/30 13:37:05 (permalink)
    If the musical figure has a length of 7 beats, calling it 7/4 is correct.

    Pink Floyd's Money is an example you will always find notated as 7/4.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    dmbaer
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/08/30 13:58:03 (permalink)
    rob.pulman


    Hi all,
    I've come up with a riff in a 7/4 time signature (just for the sake of it really, always wanted to dabble with the unusual ones).

    Yesterday I started thinking that it isn't really a 7/4, but a bar of 3/4 then a bar of 4/4.

    This riff is going to be played over and over maybe 12 times, so it would be a real pain to split it into alternate bars of 3/4 and 4/4.

    Daft question probably, but am I sort of cheating by calling it 7/4 time signature?

    Back when Dave Brubeck was issuing his rather ground breaking jazz time signiture experiments (Time Out, Time Further Out, etc.), he tried many non-standard ones.  I can't think of a single case where they didn't resolve to repeated patterns like 5/4 being 3/4, 2/4, 3/4, 2/4 ... in Take Five.
     
    So, no, it's not cheating at all.  There's no rule that says 7/4 cannot have repeating internal beats emphisized.  But there's also no rule that says you must have them.
    #3
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/08/31 05:48:41 (permalink)
    This is only slightly OT, but does have some relevance.

    I remember listening to Suppers Ready by Genesis, and the section at the end was called "Apocalypse in 9/8"

    Years later, I was given the sheet music for the album and the transcribers had notated that entire section  as 9/4

    So I think the rule tends to follow the premise that there aren't any rules, and if there are, you can break them whenever you want if it makes life easier for yourself.


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    rob.pulman
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/08/31 06:25:55 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone, there's nothing black and white so I'll record it as 7/4.

    Stoojo Music

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/08/31 08:03:15 (permalink)
    Can't wait to hear it. 

    Pink Floyd's MONEY is in 7/4 but switches to 4/4 in the guitar solo, and back again after... 

    I think editing to 3/4 - 4/4  for 12 reps would be a pain, so 7/4 is the easier way. 

    I like to take the path of least resistance most of the time.

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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/08/31 17:16:42 (permalink)
    I'm a big fan of 7/8 and 9/8 (not played in triplets). They have this feeling of walking along and then tripping on something, throwing you out of your rhythm.. Love it! I'd like it if I can work out a nice way to fit a bar or two of 9/8 on my album...

    I wrote a riff in 13/4 once. That was fun. You can really do what you want. Time signatures are pretty flexible. Only need to have a look at the following wiki page to get an idea of some crazy ones....


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_works_in_unusual_time_signatures


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/09/01 01:23:32 (permalink)
    7/4 is the correct time signature that you set in your DAW. But there are many ways of feeling the 7 beats inside each bar. A group of 4 followed by a group of 3, so a phrase that flows in 4 then the second phrase in 3, there is the group of 3 followed by a group of 4 the other way around. Then you could feel it as 1,2 1,2 1,2,3  Another way might be a group of 5 followed by a group of 2 eg 1,2,3,4,5 1,2 This group of 5 plus 2 leads to 1,2,3 1,2, 1,2. Why break it up at all and just feel it as 1,2,3,4,5,7

    Why not pharse your music using any one of these as a base and switch them around too.

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    danbob
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/09/01 02:07:32 (permalink)
    I often have 'discussions' with my music teacher about time signatures.  She always comes back to 'feel' - i.e., how do you want the person reading the music to feel the flow of the song?  There's subtle differences in the way a performer might perform a song if they're feeling 7 beats in a bar rather than 4, then 3, then 4, etc.

    I suppose 7/4 vs alternating 4/4/ and 3/4 is only a subtle difference.  There's more difference, say, between 4/4 and 12/8 - even though one is easily superimposed on the other.

    FWIW - i've recently done a 7/4 song: you can have a listen at http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10310044

    Later,

    daniel
     


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    rob.pulman
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/09/02 04:52:15 (permalink)
    Danbob - lovely song that, and it took a good few seconds into the song before I was able to count the 7 beats. After playing 4/4 or 3/4 all my life it takes a bit of getting used to.

    I think your song is more of a genuine 7/4 than mine, to be honest.

    Nice song

    Stoojo Music

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    quantumeffect
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/09/03 02:19:41 (permalink)
    I would probably write it as 7/4 but think of it as 3/4 + 4/4 while playing it.

    Money is a great example of a song that feels like a 7 that is NOT subdivided (one strong beat per measure) whereas Solsbury Hill is felt as 3 + 4.

    Dave

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    kc2ine
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    Re:7/4 time signature question 2011/09/03 09:55:39 (permalink)
    really doesn't matter how you call it, what does matter is how it sounds.

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