8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard

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Anastasis
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2009/03/26 03:17:04 (permalink)

8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard

I tried asio4all 2.9 and the very best I could get was 30 msec. But with v 2.7 I can get 8.7msec latency on my RealTek HD soundcard.

It's not real, real fast, but it's a heck of a lot better than 30! I read in another forum that v 2.9 was rubbish on XP. 2.7 did the trick I am a believer in asio drivers now.

Actually, I just set it down to 320 samples and its running fine at 6.7 msec latency but that's as fast as I can get it.
post edited by Anastasis - 2009/03/26 03:52:27
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    Wood67
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 05:40:29 (permalink)
    Even 8.7ms is pretty good - especially for that soundcard. Haven't checked what version of A4A I'm using, but sounds like I should.

    Wood

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    #2
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 08:19:57 (permalink)
    8.7 ms.... sweet.

    Sound travels at about one foot per millisecond.... so a 8.7 ms delay is like standing 9 feet from the sound source. A guitar player with a 20' cord normally is 10 to 15 feet from the amp.... and if you've been on stage.... that's a non-recognizable delay.

    30ms is recognizable. That's why when my band from years past... a 3 piece band, would always set up in a tight configuration on the really big stages we used to play on.... and close to the front edge as well.

    You're in the groove now..... as long as it stays there when you start adding synths and real time audio processing.

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    #3
    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 11:45:09 (permalink)
    Well I've optimized my computer for audio recording following the AudioForums Windows XP Optimization guide http://www.audioforums.com/resources/windows-xp-optimization.html

    This has made a marked difference. I am now getting consistant and smooth 6.7msec latency with my RealTek soundcard using asio4all 2.7 on XP.

    I'm not sure why v 2.9 is so crummy on XP but from all Im hearing on the audio forums the consensus is that 2.9 is worthless on XP and people should stick with 2.7 for all RealTek cards (or any other card for that matter). I agree with this although I wish I could explain why 2.7 is better - probably designed with XP in mind specifically.

    So 6.7msec on a RealTek HD soundcard. That ain't too shabby on a factory stock cheap soundcard. If it can do that well on my little processor, just think what it can do on a real sound card.

    I recorded a few audio guitar licks along with a basic midi drum loop earlier this morning.

    She's holding captain. I can't believe it. But she's holding.

    Now the only thing I need is a decent mixer and some mad skilz.
    post edited by Anastasis - 2009/03/26 11:55:44
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    Robomusic
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 12:52:16 (permalink)
    http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Xenyx-802?sku=631263 hard to beat for a home type studio! The preamps are very clean compared to the older behringer stuff (which was decent) and it is easy to setup.

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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    #5
    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 14:43:28 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Robomusic

    http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Xenyx-802?sku=631263 hard to beat for a home type studio! The preamps are very clean compared to the older behringer stuff (which was decent) and it is easy to setup.


    I'm liking the 802 and it looks like a straight analog setup. And I like analog over digital anytime. Your stuff sounds very analog to my ears. That's the kind of sound I'm going for with some ambient Enya type stuff going on in the mix. But I want it to sound analog, like an LP sounds. The last thing I want is anything that sounds digitized or electronica. Im only 30 but I'm really old school in my tastes and preferences.

    Here's my question. What about the Xenyx1204 USB digital? Pro and cons. Do you use a straight analog setup? Because your music sounds very analog to me. If so, that's probably the route I'm taking.
    post edited by Anastasis - 2009/03/26 15:19:43
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    RobertB
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 15:01:02 (permalink)
    I would be inclined to avoid ANY USB mixer. From what I have seen, most have barely adequate, even sub-par A/D converters.
    For about the same money, an analog mixer with a proper sound card will give you superior performance.
    If you were using Sonar or Home Studio, you could take advantage of a 4 bus mixer, but it won't really be of much use with MC4.
    The Xenyx802 is kind of unique, giving you the isolated output (like you could get with a 4 bus mixer) without actually having 4 busses.
    I know the firewire sollutions are very popular, but I am a staunch advocate of an external mixer paired with an internal PCI card, such as the M-Audio 24/96 or E-MU0404 for a small studio.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 15:08:12 (permalink)
    I think I'm on the same page now, Robert. For the last couple of days I've been tossing around for opting for analog or digital. My heart is telling me analog. It's tried and true.

    I'll probably go with the 802.

    And yes, I'm definately moving to a 24bit card.
    post edited by Anastasis - 2009/03/26 15:15:36
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    RobertB
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 15:23:44 (permalink)
    It's a decent unit, definitely worth the price.
    As a side note, if you get a sound card with native ASIO drivers, delete ASIO4All. It is rather robust, and tends to interfere with the native drivers.

    My Soundclick Page
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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #9
    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 15:25:08 (permalink)
    Will do.

    Thanks, Robert.
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    Guitarhacker
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/26 15:41:09 (permalink)
    I would be inclined to avoid ANY USB mixer.


    Yeah...last year I remember a few people coming here having problems with them.... along with soundblaster cards and USB mics...among other things.

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    #11
    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 01:10:03 (permalink)
    YOu guys probably aren't gonna believe this but Im getting 24 bit out of this RealTek HD soundcard from the asio drivers. It's capable of it because it's hd, it just that the RealTek drivers were set to 16 bit, but the actual card is capable of 24 bit and that's where asio has set it. So now Im getting 48000 at 24 bit -- on this realtek soundcard! Im proud of my little ghetto studio.
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    gamblerschoice
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 01:54:15 (permalink)
    The 24 bit is a good thing, but I would go with 44.1khz on the other setting. Its got to do with the digital math, when you convert the 48khz to 44.1khz to create burnable cd wave files, my understanding is that there is a loss of data caused by the conversion from one to the other. Maybe some one else will take this up, I know enough to get me in trouble, I understand the concepts, but I am not a good teacher/explainer type. The point is, you should be shooting for 24 bit, 44.1khz while recording, then convert to 16 bit 44.1khz for burning to cd.
    Later
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    #13
    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 02:08:06 (permalink)
    Ok, GC. It's now set at 44100 at 24 bit.

    Unbelievable. I'll try to do some research on why this works out the way it does. I bet beagle's got something on it. I'll check.
    post edited by Anastasis - 2009/03/27 02:14:55
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    Robomusic
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 17:31:44 (permalink)
    The Realtek with ASIO4All can do 24 bit and do a decent job, it will still have inferior ad/da convertors, but for all intents and purposes should work pretty well. The ASIO4All drivers are actually not ASIO at all, but a wrapper that fakes the WDM driver into thinking it is ASIO. It is a good way to get fair results out of a built in card.

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    Beagle
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 18:05:10 (permalink)
    I agree with Albert there on the sampling rate - 48k doesn't make sense unless you have a soundcard that it needs that rate (like soundblasters or ADAT converters). however, I've never heard of a realtek being capable of 24bit. I would REALLY suspect that it's not really 24bit, but it's 16bit and padding the other 8 with 0's. and I'd bet it's actually ASIO4ALL doing that, not the realtek itself. if the realtek is actually capable of 24bit, then it would be capable of doing 24bit in WDM driver mode because as Rob just pointed out, ASIO4ALL is not really an ASIO driver, it's just a wrapper for WDM driver mode using the WDM drivers of the soundcard anyway. so if the soundcard's WDM drivers aren't capable of 24bit then neither is ASIO4ALL unless ASIO4ALL is padding the other 8 bits.

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    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 18:12:52 (permalink)
    Well I did some checking and Realtek HD is in fact capable of 24 bit. In the tutorials on MC4 I read that alot of 16 bit soundcards are capable of 24 bit but their latency is not geared low enough for quality audio recording and that's where the problem comes in.

    I am in no way advocating using a Realtek soundcard. I'm just playing around with this laptop to see what I can get out of it and to learn the software.

    Fear not, I shall most certainly build a decent recording computer when I get ready to lay down some real tracks. But that's still 3 to 6 months away at least.

    And the 8.7 (actually I'm running it at 10.9 with jamtrax in the mix) is quick enough to jam to right now just to go through the tutorials and stuff.
    post edited by Anastasis - 2009/03/27 18:21:03
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    Beagle
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 18:18:31 (permalink)
    that's interesting. and 8.7msec out of the onboard soundcard is really good.

    of course, 8.7msec is the reported latency and that's actually ONE WAY. round trip is actually a little more than twice that.

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    #18
    Anastasis
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    RE: 8.7msec latency using asio4all 2.7 on XP with a RealTek HD soundcard 2009/03/27 19:01:58 (permalink)
    Yeah that's right, it's probably 17 18 round trip. But that's still better than the 30 and 40 I was getting.
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