icontakt
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8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes X3)
Or is there some other reason why switching screensets often crashes my X3? (Seems to happen more often than when I was on X2 - when my PC had only 4GB btw.) Maybe some specific plug-in is causing the crash? All my projects are created using my own project template (which I (re-)created in X3d) that contains: - 30 MIDI tracks, 22 synth tracks, 4 audio tracks, and 10 track folders
- 6 soft synths - SSD4EX, EZDrummer, Kontakt 5 Player, Kontakt 4 Full (x2), Nexus 2, and M1
- 5 effects - Guitar Rig 5 (x2), MTuner (x2), EAReverb (x2), Valhalla Room, MDE-X (x2)
The crash doesn't bring up the fault report dialog so I can't report to CW. And after Sonar is closed, I have to terminate SONARX3.exe using Task Manager, and wait for some minutes before Sonar becomes restartable. The crash on screenset change doesn't occur when I use the default Normal project template with only several tracks and a few soft synths. Do you think this is my system issue or does the minimum RAM requirement of 2GB mean "You can still use X3 without using screensets"? (edit: forgot to include some important info:) - SSD4 EX is empty (no drum kit loaded)
- Kontakt 5 has just one instrument in it (a 33MB RAM temporary drum kit that will be replaced by a huge, NI drum library at some point)
- 1st instance of Kontakt 4 contains only 4 instruments (about 127MB RAM in total)
- 2nd instance of K4 contains 12 instruments (but only about 140MB RAM in total)
- M1 is very CPU/memory-friendly
- The ASIO buffer setting I usually use is 128 samples (Input Latency: 4.0 msec, Output Latency: 8.1 msec)
- Project's sampling rate and bit depth are 44.1kHz/24bit
Thanks
post edited by Jlien X - 2014/03/01 00:05:55
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Paul P
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/02/28 21:31:54
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All other things aside, your system is probably a bit weak. You're loading quite a bit of stuff on a 5-year-old laptop. My 4-year-old i5 laptop isn't crazy about a single instance of z3ta2, let alone 30 tracks of a bunch of different synths. I'd say your CPU (and it being in a laptop) is getting in the way of any amount of memory you might have.
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mettelus
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/02/28 22:38:39
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Have you considered a more tactical approach and using track templates instead, and inserting them "as needed."
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Grem
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/02/28 22:52:18
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I would agree with mettelus. Try just and see if it helps make the situation better.
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icontakt
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/01 00:14:16
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Thanks all. I forgot to include some important info in the OP: - SSD4 EX is empty (no drum kit loaded)
- Kontakt 5 has just one instrument in it (a 33MB RAM temporary drum kit that will be replaced by a huge, NI drum library at some point)
- 1st instance of Kontakt 4 contains only 4 instruments (about 127MB RAM in total)
- 2nd instance of K4 contains 12 instruments (but only about 140MB RAM in total)
- M1 is very CPU/memory-friendly
- The ASIO buffer setting I usually use is 128 samples (Input Latency: 4.0 msec, Output Latency: 8.1 msec)
- Project's sampling rate and bit depth are 44.1kHz/24bit
Still, my system is probably a bit weak as Paul suggested. I think Cakewalk should list not only minimum system requirements but also recommended system requirements in the product page. As for track templates, I've never really considered using them. It's maybe because I use multi-timbral/multi-out synths a lot and adding instruments "as needed" inside Kontakt or M1 is not so easy (and I don’t want to use several instances of these multi-timbral synths having just one instrument each). Also, the 30 MIDI tracks consist of varieties of instruments I use most often, which is convenient because I can just open the project template and start composing immediately, whether the part I want to record is acoustic piano or electric piano or synth bass or electric bass or something else, because they are already there ready to be played. And my MIDI keyboard controller’s 8 sliders are already assigned to each group of instruments, so if I want to adjust the volume of a particular group of instruments, I just tweak a corresponding slider (1st slider for drums, 2nd slider for basses, etc.) Anyway, I’ll consider if I can reduce the number of synths/effects, or come up with a workflow that doesn’t need to use screensets. I think screensets are Karl’s favorite feature in the X series, but the feature has never been a good friend to me (after switching screensets, track heights are often not the same as those that were saved (and locked) with the screenset).
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Grem
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/01 01:07:24
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I see your point.
Is your graphic driver up to date? Is it integrated?
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mettelus
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 06:49:55
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Track templates are easiest to create if you already have a project to save them from. They save send/bus routing, as well as effects (and presets) and instrument settings. By saving them from a full-blown project, they will interlace as things are added. To save multiple tracks, they can simply be put in a folder and save the folder itself as the "track template" which works for multi-timbral/multi-out synths (that is what the AD track template that was posted is). I actually did "Track Templates" as a project for this online course I am doing. We were limited to a recommended 5 minutes, so I edited a lot of the "dead space" which makes my fast talking even worse. The point I was trying to make above starts at the 3:30 mark - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCJ5rYytwuw Ironically, I was asked if other DAWs even have this feature, and my response was "No clue, I only use SONAR."
post edited by mettelus - 2014/03/04 17:23:20
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icontakt
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 10:03:14
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Grem I see your point. Is your graphic driver up to date? Is it integrated?
I think it's up to date. The driver update button and automatic search told me it's the latest driver. I'm no pc expert so I may be missing something, though. How do I know if it's "integrated"? mettelus Track templates are easiest to create if you already have a project to save them from. They save send/bus routing, as well as effects (and presets) and instrument settings. By saving them from a full-blown project, they will interlace as things are added. To save multiple tracks, they can simply be put in a folder and save the folder itself as the "track template" which works for multi-timbral/multi-out synths (that is what the AD track template that was posted is). I actually did "Track Templates" as a project for this online course I am doing. We were limited to a recommended 5 minutes, so I edited a lot of the "dead space" which makes my fast talking even worse. The point I was trying to make above starts at the 3:30 mark - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCJ5rYytwuw Ironically, I was asked if other DAWs even have this feature, and my response was "No clue, I only use SONAR."
Thanks for the video. Track templates are one of the most requested features in the Studio One FR forum (yes, I'm a dual DAW user, although I'm not using S1 very often these days because X3 is so good...). I'm now seriously considering using track templates because you've just reminded me that not all daws have the feature, and also because my project template started crashing Sonar when I exit the template  . Or maybe I should archive more tracks......or disable effects until I actually need to use them.....
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Matt
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 11:36:39
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I had to give up on screensets in X3. I'm used to instantaneous, I can't stand the delay when switching between them. In 8.3 it was instantaneous for me, why is it so slow now? It feels like the equivalent of closing the file and reopening it. Maybe not quite that slow but close. My patience just ran out I finally abandoned them completely and set the keyboard shortcuts to something else so I wasn't switching on accident. And I am running on a brand spankin' new maxed-out computer. This is not helpful to you, I just thought I'd throw it in there. Maybe Sonar could get this feature back to where it used to be...? Or is it just me...?
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stevec
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 14:03:13
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FWIW, screensets were introduced in X1, so in 8.3 it would have been layouts - similar function but not quite the same and based on different technology. The most common reason for unusually slow Screen Set switching has been having a floppy drive in some fashion. You don't actually need to have a physical drive installed, most don't, but having it in the BIOS will still cause SONAR to ping that location when switching Screen Sets... and that slows things down.
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mettelus
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 19:15:29
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I have seen similar delays when switching screen sets (the only "built" one I have had is FBBs post of them). I just ran all over my BIOS searching and have not found references to a floppy drive anywhere (that I can find anyway). I guess I had just assumed this was due to the size/complexity of the template he had posted. I saw a noticeable (couple second) delay when switching between those. Is there another place to look for the floppy drive posted above?
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jb101
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 19:27:43
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mettelus I have seen similar delays when switching screen sets (the only "built" one I have had is FBBs post of them). I just ran all over my BIOS searching and have not found references to a floppy drive anywhere (that I can find anyway). I guess I had just assumed this was due to the size/complexity of the template he had posted. I saw a noticeable (couple second) delay when switching between those. Is there another place to look for the floppy drive posted above?
In Windows device manager.
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mettelus
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 19:56:18
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Thank you, unfortunately there is not one listed there either (even showing hidden devices). I went searching quick for a screenshot to make sure I was looking in the right place, and one of the replies confirmed if not in BIOS then Windows will not see it either, so it is off. I just loaded FBBs screen set template again and it is more like 1 second to shift them around, which isn't really that bad (to me). I just have not used them a great deal yet.
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jb101
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 20:03:30
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If it's not in device manager, then there isn't one, AFAIK.
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Matt
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/02 21:16:40
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Floppy drive really? That's bizarre. Yes I guess in 8.3 I had "layouts". I miss them. Screenset switching is approx. ~4 seconds for me, but I have a very large template. However, my very large template is almost entirely midi tracks so I can't see that making much of a difference. Only plugins I have loaded are Kontakt and Stylus and neither with any samples loaded. In any case I find 4 seconds is too annoying to be useful to me.
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gswitz
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/03 08:04:57
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I personally find that it is much less load to change the current screenset using keyboard shortcuts than to switch to a different screenset. I can hit Shift+D and not experience a dropout where hitting 2 to get to the identical layout shift+D would have brought me may cause a drop out. Now, if I can afford to stop playback, then screensets are great. Or if I can afford to push up buffer samples to 2048 or something, screensets never cause me dropouts. But I rarely switch between screensets while tracking. I have not experienced System Crashes while using screensets, but I have experienced dropouts.
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musicroom
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/04 22:03:18
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I had to comment - the screensets used to change kind of quick - now it's like you're opening an app. ?? Shame
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Grem
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Re: 8GB RAM not enough to use screensets in a heavy project? (Switching them often crashes
2014/03/05 04:12:28
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Screensets for me is more about where I want to lay things out, rather than to switch between complete views quickly back and forth. I too am one that has gotten real good at putting what I'm working on in the Multidock and then just hit "D" or "Shift D" to get to what I want. What I would like to be able to do, is to arrange the Multidock tabs in the order I want and to be able to tab through them. Anyone know a way to do this?
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