bitflipper
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A Headbanger's Journey
I am watching a documentary called "Metal, A Headbanger's Journey". It was made by a longtime metalhead who is also a cultural anthropologist. It talks about the metal subculture and what makes it so, using interviews with a lot of oldtimers like the late Ronnie James Dio, Tommy Iommi, Alice Cooper and Dee Snider. Guys who have lived the metal life for many decades and had a hand in the genre's inception and evolution. Personally, metal music and I parted company when it went Glam, and I've only recently revived a tentative relationship with it, mostly through operatic/symphonic bands such as Nightwish, or traditional virtuoso-rock like Dream Theater. Neither of which would be considered "true" metal by many aficionados. In fact EVERY genre and sub-genre of metal music is considered to be "not true" by fans of most competing genres. In some recording magazine, I read an article about recording metal. The author ticked off all the usual techniques in an authoritative-sounding manner, then when he got to the section labeled "Keyboards", he just said: "There are no keyboards in metal!" Clearly, both of my favorite metal bands would not qualify as real metal in his mind. Watching this film is, for me, like watching a documentary about my ancestors. Alien and familiar at the same time. I see a family resemblance, but they're like the distant branch of your family that joined a cult or something and then got weird.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 00:21:05
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and then got weird. Thanks for the compliment Dave. By the way it's Tony Iommi, not Tommy.
post edited by bapu - 2010/10/29 00:22:09
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Jonbouy
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 04:10:51
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Dave, I guess what you and I would be talking about is 'Rockers' as those the were into the likes of Zep, Purple, Sabbath, Free etc, etc, etc. In the US there is less snobbery when it comes to genre but 'Rock' music this side of the pond would mean, and only mean acts like those mentioned, I've heard for many years acts like Michael Jackson or Coldplay for example generically being referred to as 'Rock' acts over there which would be less likely happen over here. The genre thing and it's various sub-divisions today is completely crazy and is not confined to types of 'Metal'. Dance music also has a plethora of slight variations on a theme that are so hard to spot that a musicologist would give up on the definitions. The thing about our time I think that is different was music had a cultural meaning which it doesn't have in the same way today and in the light of the 'Mod vs Rockers' mayhem and violence, certainly on this side of the pond, that has at least one positive aspect to it. Given those broader distinctions of yore I always likened those 'Rock' fans to be very similar to 'Country' fans (British ones at least) although the music, uniforms and associated paraphernalia were very different, the defence of the 'genre' was staunchly loyal, the events staged by the fans were always very well-organized despite looking chaotic and even the dancing was every bit as well structured as square or line dancing. The rules of engagement today are very much different in that your background will likely have less to do with how you 'should' be perceived on a societal level and you are freer to make intellectual choices, whereas before if you came from a certain background then you were likely to belong to that backgrounds tribe, consciously or not. Whether I like it or not my defining period was the '70's and in the UK there were 3 main types of music as there we're 3 main types of fan, the disco crowd, and the rockers which largely still followed the social standings of the more extremist 'Mods' and 'Rockers' plus the prog Rockers whose came from a slighty better educated sub-class which would have developed from the University common room based 'Beatniks' of the '60's. I don't think here there was much class distinction between the mods and rockers other than a behavioural one with the Mods latterly the Disco fans going for looking sharp and stylish, whilst going for status, and the rockers being less conformist 'let it all hang out' types, more attracted to rebellion. The US having a far more diverse social structure than the UK is likely to have been far less simplistic than that. Good topic.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2010/10/29 04:42:22
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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mgh
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 06:13:06
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yeah that's not a bad documentary as these things go. keyboards in metal was a strange one - in the 70s/80s records would proudly proclaim 'no keyboards used' especially at the extreme end of things. then a band called Nocturnus released 'the key' and showed keyboards in death metal could be cool, all the scandinavian bands went artsy and not only used keyboards but traditional instruments like pipes, accordion or added orchestral stuff...now very few people care if keyboards are used. nice to see you embracing the heavy side of life again bit, metal is a far more diverse beast than ever it was! even within a sub-genre, say black metal, there are sub-sub-genres like pagan, folk, necro, symphonic etc etc. one thing metal fans love is a list and being nerdy!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 06:49:20
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"It was made by a longtime metalhead who is also a cultural anthropologist." I call science that comes with a predisposed agenda... entertainment. :-) Have you listened to much Baba Brinkman?
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Crg
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 07:15:12
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Metal purists, what a concept. Keep the dial on 11 and you're good. Black Sabbath. Deep Purple. Early Cream. All metal to me. Todays keyboard synthesizers can go really metal if you want them to. But I guess that's electronica.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 07:20:03
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It's all Link Wray for me... they love him in Paris.
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tarsier
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 10:23:35
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Personally, metal music and I parted company when it went Glam, That's when I thought it got good
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guitardog247
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 10:59:49
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mgh nice to see you embracing the heavy side of life again bit, metal is a far more diverse beast than ever it was! even within a sub-genre, say black metal, there are sub-sub-genres like pagan, folk, necro, symphonic etc etc. one thing metal fans love is a list and being nerdy! Good point. There is many different types of metal, today, and it's all "true metal", as it usuall hints back to the early stuff somewhat. I don't buy any of that "true metal" stuff. Stuff these days though, man, is pretty heavy and scary. Cookie monster vocals and all. It's like when you break out the Judas Priest and Iron Maiden, it sounds "poppy" in comparison. I'm more into "post metal", stuff like Tool, Melvins, etc.. But you definitely hear the Black Sabbath in bands like that too.
Sonar, Les Paul Studio, FTU, puter, plugs.........
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bitflipper
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 11:20:37
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Have you listened to much Baba Brinkman? This name was unfamiliar to me, so I listened to some samples on Amazon. I have to say, if all Rap was that intelligent I might not despise it so much as a genre. I really don't consider myself a genre-bigot. My philosophy is that music is created within the listener's head. As musicians and recordists we learn by trial and error what kinds of sounds are likely to trigger those neural pathways, but we aren't the ones creating the music. We are merely creating the stimula. It doesn't truly become music until it gets into the listener's head, and he/she decides that yes, that is music. Still, it's only natural that music consumers would have biases. When we experience something that gives us pleasure, we naturally want to revisit whatever it was that delivered that experience in the past. For me, melody and harmony is what fires my neurons, so Rap is the exact opposite of what I seek. I think that this prejudice is hard-wired, or at least established at a very young age. I grew up on classical music, which spoke to me even as a toddler, and later embraced British art-rock as the logical heir to that sensibility. In the Court of the Crimson King was a life-changing benchmark when I was 18. I believe these biases are hard-wired at a basic level. I was turned on to Nightwish by a 17-year-old high school student in a tiny Missouri town. Clearly a social outcast, I felt sorry for the kid and struck up a conversation. I guessed he liked metal music (the Iron Maiden t-shirt was a clue) and as we talked I was surprised that this child of television, consumerism and cultural mediocrity had a broad musical appreciation, and loved much of the music of my generation. And hated Rap. Never mind the spiked wristband, monochromatic clothing and sullen, guarded expression. The kid was all right.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 11:37:30
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Clearly a social outcast.... The kid was all right. I've told the story before (here's the short version): I recorded a band that was metal to the core. The dress, the look, the piercings and tats. Most of America would cross an 8 lane busy freeway/highway to not encounter them. They were the sweetest and most articulate guys you would ever want to meet.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 11:40:40
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I recommended Baba Brinkman in the context of a cultural anthropologist. He seems clever and aware of the irony of what he is up to. :-) I'm glad you listened. I particularly like his Darwin album and bought a download.
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bitflipper
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 14:54:56
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The thing about our time I think that is different was music had a cultural meaning which it doesn't have in the same way today and in the light of the 'Mod vs Rockers' mayhem and violence, certainly on this side of the pond, that has at least one positive aspect to it. I haven't given much thought to Mods and Rockers in quite awhile. I was living in England in 1969, at the dawn of that Mod/Rocker duality and witnessed firsthand some of the legendary violence between those groups. As well as the beginning of the next logical phase, ska and aggro. I'd been unaware prior to that just how frustrated and pissed off the working class young people of Great Britain were. I'd always thought of Brits as being reserved and stoic, with a wry sense of humor. That is, until I saw some furiously kicking the head of someone whose only transgression was apparently wearing the wrong color scarf after a football match. (And they consider American football a violent sport. At least we keep the violence on the field as non-lethal entertainment.) Things may be different now, but in the 60's and early 70's the town where I lived (Oxford) was divided as cleanly as Berlin was back then. Divided along socioeconomic lines, and you could easily discern which part of town someone lived in by their dress, their dialect (ultra-weird to an American, that multiple dialects could exist in one small city) and by their music. Skinheads and their reggae, steel-toed workboots that doubled as both social statement and weapon. Nose-in-the-air well-dressed Mods, speaking the Queen's English but every bit as ready to bash someone's head in. Guys with stiletto-pointed shoes and leather jackets, caricatures of The Fonz. A social anthropologist needn't travel far to study tribal behavior - he could study it in the same town where he got his degree! Fortunately, as a Yank no one could figure out which group I belonged to, so I was given a pass to move freely among them. I hadn't though much about those days in a while. Now that you've reminded me of it, I find it curious that such animosity does not appear to be prevalent among metal-heads. Especially given their predilection for alcohol consumption. It would appear that global tribal affiliation trumps localized differences. But if that's the case, what's the deal with the Hip Hop subculture?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Moshkiae
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 15:15:29
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The genre thing and it's various sub-divisions today is completely crazy and is not confined to types of 'Metal'. Dance music also has a plethora of slight variations on a theme that are so hard to spot that a musicologist would give up on the definitions. Have you checked "progressive" lately? ... it's pathetic! On top of it, some of it is just ... a special effect on the guitar ... that makes it that "definition"!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Moshkiae
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 15:46:44
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HI, This is one of those topics that is really hard to "discuss" ... because music history, just like art history, and any other history, does not follow "rules" and sometimes, it turns left in Albuquerque and that is the end of the story ... you're in the desert and it's over! My biggest contention, is that a lot of these terms were created to make it easier to sell and for fans to locate in a music store ... and the veracity of the term, of course, can not have any validity since what is metal in NY is merde in Knoxville, and crepe in SF, and vice versa, and the material will never reach the stores for anyone to listen to. The Internet makes the cross-polination of these things better, but right now it's a huge mess ... and I think that it will take another 10 to 20 years before things can be defined properly and the wording actually make some sense of the whole thing. I, personally, do not like to call Dream Theater "metal" any more than I like to call Pink Floyd "Pop" or "Rock" ... it is music. MUSIC. And musicians deserve that right ... That said, it is one of my biggest fights in the ProgArchives, not to mention that a lot of people -- like King Crimson, or ELP and others that were given the credit as the starters for "progressive" did not do their music because it was progressive, but mostly because it was a reaction to a lot of the goings on at the time ... I mean, people not realizing how "Epitath" is as important as Jimi's National Anthem to our collective conscious, is like saying ... you were too stoned to give a damn ... and not many of us were that ripped, or stupid, or wore flowers in our hair ... and a lot of the music meant a lot more to us ... and was a massive inspiration to a lot of the work that we do and the way we live. It's almost like saying that VietNam didn't happen and the IRA thing was a joke, which is what "Epitath" was all about ... or maybe we all need to go see "Apocalypse Now" and "The Deerhunter" again ... to remind us. And a friend of mine said that those two movies were "kindergarten" compared to the real thing! I don't like to take the "soul" of the music out of it, because the music will only stand up through some notes, chords or a style ... and those, per se, are quite meaningless in the long run of music history ... only one or two endup getting remembered and discussed. Thus, the terms are a discredit to the music in my book. But tell that to the kid that has a mohawk is knows that he is only going to that one spot on the store! We did the same thing when we wanted to go smoke a joint behind mom and dad! The only way a "scene" can get remembered is when it is bigger than just the music. And the 60's come 70's were and gave us a whole artistic scene that included literature, music, theater, film ... you name it ... and as such that ear will always be remembered and appreciated. "Metal" will probably die and become something else ... unless these people can expand their interest beyond a few fans and sales that make them happy. It has to get away from the claws of the industry in order to make it viable ... otherwise a movie like this will become like ... the GTO's ... (movie called "The Groupies") ... was there, but who cares?
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Eotm
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 18:14:27
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if all Rap was that intelligent I might not despise it so much as a genre Public Enemy?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/29 19:07:36
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guitardog247
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 01:57:40
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Sonar, Les Paul Studio, FTU, puter, plugs.........
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 03:15:57
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Crg Metal purists, what a concept. Keep the dial on 11 and you're good. Black Sabbath. Deep Purple. Early Cream. All metal to me. Todays keyboard synthesizers can go really metal if you want them to. But I guess that's electronica. Not just today's keyboards, what about Jon Lord's Hammond C3 + RMI Piano + Ring Modulator setup, that could easily compete with Blackmore's guitar turned up to 11.
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Crg
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 07:34:27
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Not just today's keyboards, what about Jon Lord's Hammond C3 + RMI Piano + Ring Modulator setup, that could easily compete with Blackmore's guitar turned up to 11. I'll have to give that a listen. What album is it on?
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 08:41:40
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Crg I'll have to give that a listen. What album is it on? It's on a lot of their stuff. Highway Star on Machine Head springs to mind. The reason people found it hard to emulate Lord's Hammond sound is his C3 was modified, the electronics of the RMI elactra piano was bolted on to the bottom and wired into the keys. Then he had a ring modulator fitted that he used to produce that distinctive distortion.
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bitflipper
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 10:08:16
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The reason people found it hard to emulate Lord's Hammond sound is his C3 was modified He drove that poor Leslie with a 100W Marshal head. Probably traveled with spare horn drivers. That beat-up M102 (not a C3 AFAIK) is still around despite its decades of abuse and has been passed down to JL's successors in the band. One of my most memorable concerts ever was seeing Deep Purple performing "Deep Purple in Rock" in Frankfurt, Germany. 1971, IIRC. Sweet Child in Time brought the house down and I had a new hero to aspire to be. ELP had just formed and I'd just seen them the night before. Those were glorious days to be a keyboard player. The etymology of the phrase "Heavy Metal" is interesting. I remember reading the comics of that name before I ever heard the term used in a musical context. According to Alice Cooper, its first use as a musical term was in Rolling Stone magazine, in a review of A.C. That surprised me, because I thought it predated A.C. by several years. Certainly the word "heavy" predates A.C. - I distinctly remember hearing and using the word to describe the Amboy Dukes. One of the topics discussed briefly in the video is "who was the first metal band?". For me, it's Black Sabbath, not because they invented distorted guitars (that technique goes back to the very beginning of guitar amplification in the 30's) but because they pioneered the spooky melodies and dark persona. There were "heavy" bands before them - Cream stands out, as well as Blue Cheer before them. But when I heard "Iron Man" for the first time I felt like a portal into an alternate universe had opened and was inviting me in. Of course, the acid may have had something to do with it.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 10:13:51
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For me, it's Black Sabbath Gotta agree Dave. That was the heaviest thing I've ever heard up to that point and as they say, there is nothing like the first one/time. IMO, nothing has broken the heavy barrier in the way they did. Yeah, there may be heavier bands today but not groundbreaking like BS. Oh yeah, I mean 'for me'.
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57Gregy
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 12:12:48
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bitflipper- One of my most memorable concerts ever was seeing Deep Purple performing "Deep Purple in Rock" in Frankfurt, Germany. 1971 I was in Frankfurt in 1971. How did I miss that? Before my concert-going days, I guess. I saw my first-ever concert at the Messe in Dec. 1971 (Grand Funk) and a few months later Ten Years After at the same venue.
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bitflipper
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 13:12:15
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I was in Frankfurt in 1971. How did I miss that? How, indeed? It seemed like every hippie in town was there. Someone had been selling counterfeit tickets outside, so the hall was packed to the rafters. I lucked out and wound up in the near-front-center, sandwiched sardine-like in a sea of enthusiastic stoners (is that a contradiction?). Back in those days you could be that close to a band and not suffer profound hearing loss, even with a fairly loud band like Deep Purple. I don't think the guitar and bass amps were even miked. They sounded great. The audience was great (Germans are great audiences generally - if they like you they are not shy about letting you know it) and it was a great evening of entertainment.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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DaveElson
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 18:05:32
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bapu For me, it's Black Sabbath Gotta agree Dave. That was the heaviest thing I've ever heard up to that point and as they say, there is nothing like the first one/time. IMO, nothing has broken the heavy barrier in the way they did. Yeah, there may be heavier bands today but not groundbreaking like BS. Oh yeah, I mean 'for me'. Black Sabbath - yes pretty groundbreaking. Recently bought the cd for the first time although I had the lp many years years ago, well when it first came out. Did Uriah Heep come before Black Sabbath? I remember buying the first album from them too. Plenty of keyboards (couldn't state what) and fits in with heavy. In fact the first album was titled "Very 'eavy Very 'umble" They got a lot of criticism, and to me some of the tracks were a little naff, but others were great and they still have a good following. Have to mention The Groundhogs (Thank Christ For The Bomb and Split albums) and Atomic Rooster (Death Walks Behind You). Great early 70 rock bands. Hard rock (or heavy) at it's best.
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DW_Mike
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 18:33:56
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"There are no keyboards in metal!" Dio used keys, Rainbow In The Dark comes to mind. I went and saw Black Label Society a few weeks ago and one of the opening bands was a hard core/thrash band with a keyboard player. It didn't quite fit in or sound right to me but then again it just might have been the 'sounds' he was using and the parts he played. As someone mentioned above, it just sounded like an after thought. I don't 'do' the whole genre thing. It's getting somewhat ridiculous. For me I keep it simple. Jazz, Blues, Rock, Classical, Country, World, Bapu. Mike
Sonar X3 ~ Scarlett 18i6 ~ Home Build DAW GA-Z77X-UD5H Intel i7 3770k 4.2GHz 32GB RAM Crucial Ballistix Elite (4x8) 2x Samsung 250GB SSD 1TB WD Black HDD @ 7200RPM 6Gb/s 64MB Corsair H80i Liquid cooler Noctua Silent Fans ~ 3x120mm ~ 1x140mm Seasonic Platinum 760w PSU Windows 7 Pro 64Bit.
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DaveElson
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 18:42:30
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I don't 'do' the whole genre thing. It's getting somewhat ridiculous. For me I keep it simple. Jazz, Blues, Rock, Classical, Country, World. No, let's have more. Hard rocking and heavy guitar bands can have Heavy Metal, and hard rocking and heavy guitar (or other) bands that have keyboards can be....umm.....Heavy Ivory!
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bitflipper
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 19:01:39
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Atomic Rooster - now you're digging into the obscure past. I didn't think anyone had ever even heard of them in this country. They were the original "who's in the band this week" ad hoc ensemble. Kindred spirits to Coliseum, who actually did it better and were equally obscure in America. Coliseum live was definitely "heavy". As for Uriah Heep's place in the chronology, I remember them being contemporaries of Sabbath. Musically superior to Sabbath, but probably too brainy for the emerging metalheads. And of course, The Who predates them all.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re:A Headbanger's Journey
2010/10/30 19:36:59
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For me I keep it simple. Jazz, Blues, Rock, Classical, Country, World, Bapu. As I opened the email notification I thought  , Mike left off Bapu. Then I went to reply and correct this young chap, and I see it's there. Then I thought  this forum software sucks.
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