Helpful ReplyA Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR

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Anderton
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2016/02/25 21:49:01 (permalink)

A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR

In the LANDR threads, I was taken aback by how many people think mastering is just about applying a preset with EQ and dynamics processing. It's not that simple. It involves analysis of a recording, the ability to identify deficiencies, and the knowledge of what processing or waveform surgery will fix those deficiencies.
 
At least year's Sweetwater GearFest, I did a workshop on what I call "mastering with a small 'm'" (e.g., no waveform-level work, no restoration). I took files from the audience at random, and mastered them on the spot in the minimum amount of time possible. The following video doesn't show waveform surgery, but gives some insights into the thought processes behind mastering decisions. After watching it, I think it becomes clear that if a preset works for you, it's by coincidence. I hope you find it interesting.
 


The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#1
John
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/25 22:01:42 (permalink)
Good reminder. 

Best
John
#2
olemon
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 06:33:39 (permalink)
Thank you, Craig!
 
I am mastering my own mixes, all in Sonar, and so I have the luxury of going back to the mix if needs be, which is often the case.  Therefore, my mastering processing is subtle.
 
Listening/watching what you did with these mixes, I'm on the right track.  No pun intended:)

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#3
Zargg
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 07:18:30 (permalink)
Thanks for sharing Craig. Made me a little less overwhelmed when it comes to mastering
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#4
gswitz
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 08:05:52 (permalink)
I really liked this video when I watched it the first time and again now.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#5
jpetersen
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 08:09:21 (permalink)
I had a client that went "Wow! Yes, like that!" when all I did was apply some Concrete Limiter.
 
This video demonstrates aesthetically driven mastering, more than what would make
GoPro, Church sermon and Wedding videographers happy.
 
...I did benefit from this video, I hasten to add...
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/02/26 08:31:01
#6
dwardzala
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 08:25:14 (permalink)
I was at Craig's workshop and it was fantastic.  There were several notable forumites (I am not one of them) in attendance as well.
 
Thanks for the video.  I plan on watching it this weekend.

Dave
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#7
Soundwise
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 09:01:54 (permalink)
I like to think of mastering as of magnifying glass, that reveals the naked truth of the record. It just makes apparent how good the song/arrangement/performance really is.
#8
kennywtelejazz
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 09:06:51 (permalink)
Count me in as someone who enjoyed the video .
One thing that I noticed that actually surprised me was when the first song was playing right around the 2:38 ish area
it sounded like the whole mix got loose ....
During the second take of the song Craig had Mastered I noticed that the whole section of that song I mentioned was so much tighter and gelling ..I can say the same for the whole song too..
That must be due to what ever EQ Mojo and years of experience  Craig used to dial the song ...
What a transformation .
 
Kenny

                   
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#9
MondoArt
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 11:10:40 (permalink)
Great comparison and I appreciated all the notes and settings screenshots in the video.  Thanks Craig!
 
Also, a note regarding presets. They are a great starting point, especially for attack and release settings in a compressor. But they don't know the level of your track, so threshold / input / gain reduction need to be set manually - ALWAYS.
 
I actually really like the presets in the Sonitus Multi-band compressor, but always tweak the thresholds and the makeup gain of each band to suit the song. I usually leave attacks, releases, and ratios as the presets have them.

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#10
FCCfirstclass
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 13:07:52 (permalink)
Craig, thanks for sharing the video.  I wish everyone would watch it at least once to understand your main point about music interaction. 

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#11
gbowling
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 13:26:59 (permalink)
This brought up some question and ideas in my mind. 
 
Craig had some specifics in his video, that he needed a cut around 200hz, add in some high end from around 1.26Khz and a bit more around 1.46K to the end and put in a cut around 2.7khz. How did he know all this? Well he was probably looking at the graphs in channel view and using his knowledge and experience.
 
What if you don't have the ears, experience, and vast knowledge of Craig? Or what if you're getting a bit older and maybe don't hear as well as you used to and aren't as skilled at looking at the graphs? Maybe Landr is a good way to go. 
 
Then there's the dreaded har-bal! I have used har-bal for a while and wanted to see what it could do. So I took the first song off Craig's video and pulled in the unedited version to see what I could find. Here's har-bal's graph of it.

edit: for some reason I can't get the inline images to show up, so here's a link to the 1st graph
https://drive.google.com/...view?usp=sharing 
 
As you can see from har-bal's analysis. There is indeed a big peak around 200 hz, it looks like it might be centered a bit before 200hz. It also clearly shows a low point that starts around 800hz and extends to about 2khz but with a peak in there around 1.2khz and again around 2.4khz with the high freq tailing off from around 4khz to the end. 
 
In my view, it clearly points out that Craig's analysis was exactly right, but also gives more detail as to exactly where things need work. 
 
It took me about 2 minutes in har-bal to modify it to look like this on the graph.
 

edit: for some reason I can't get the inline images to show up, so here's a link to the 2nd graph
https://drive.google.com/...VneGc/view?usp=sharing
 
Also, If you also notice in the upper right hand corner of the first pic. The "processed loudness" is at -20.67db. In the 2nd pic I corrected this to -14.14db. This was quickly and easily done in har-bal's histogram view raising the level to just before compressing.
 
This was all just an experiment on my part to compare Craig's findings in the video with what I could discover using har-bal. Is it going to replace a Craig or someone like a Bob Ludwig? NO! Is it an easy way to quickly make big improvements to a song and possibly understand what needs work? YES!
 
Here's a link to the file processed by har-bal if you want to compare to the ones on Craig's video. You'll notice there isn't the added reverb from Craig's job as that's not something har-bal does.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3mQDhLlz1HnZlM4TWtFdXU1b0E/view?usp=sharing
 
gabo
post edited by gbowling - 2016/02/26 14:11:51

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#12
Beepster
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 13:35:57 (permalink)
Yes, Craig. Thank you. This is the type of educational material I was referring to. Of course you are using a third party maximizer in this but the gist is exactly what I was talking about.
 
You yourself of course are quite busy so I wouldn't expect you to take anything like this all on yourself but if these types of volumes could occasionally be created by various pros using the tools most of us will have on hand (or easy access to) then Sonar immediately becomes a much more useful tool (on top of it's already massive usefulness).
 
Even if the Templates and Chains aren't created and included in the Sonar releases at least folks can create their own based on what they see on screen.
 
Totally moving target but that's why seeing how multiple experienced people would go about such things on different types of material using the tools us schleps have around can help us make our own plans and get comfortable with it all.
 
Maybe a monthly blog/eZine entry where someone "masters" a tune in Sonar and explains what they are doing just as you have here would be a boon to... well us schleps just trying to put out decent demos.
 
Cheers and thanks again.
#13
rickidoo
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 13:39:18 (permalink)
Wow. Stunning improvement, particularly the 1st demo.  And thanks for the details of what you did. It's not many master chef's that share their cooking secrets as you do. 'much appreciated.
 
Rick
 
#14
tagruvto
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 15:17:35 (permalink)
What struck me was that both of these songs are well crafted and the performances are good, BUT... they both are deficient in the mix department.  Obviously this is subjective and others are free to disagree, but a little more care at that stage could have really improved the final product. 
 
You did us all a service with this post, because it shows that mastering (small m) can improve the final product, but it can't go back and really fix things like lost dynamics and less than optimal EQ and level decisions at the mix stage.
 
thanks for posting this!

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#15
berlymahn
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 15:30:42 (permalink)
So much good stuff out there about mastering.  It's really helps to know what you're doing (I've been doing my own mastering for 4-5 years now and consider myself a certifiable hack).  Cough Cough.
 
1st things first - it all starts with a good mix.  A bad mix can be healed only partially.  Conversely, a good mix need not be thrashed in the Mastering Process. 
 
It's quite the education process when you encounter musicians who want stuff mastered (for free, .....always!) and when they give you their mix they are unable to tell you what mixdown processing was performed, and more importantly (overall), why it sounds gawk awful.  I am helping a classical guitarist with his mixes....recorded all over the place, no continuity of sound, etc.  Musicians!!! (ha)
 
Many hats of to Anderton for his efforts here.  Learned a lot from you Craig!
 
BTW: I'm an Ozone 7 / Insight user....remarkable product with good presets to then help you dial in, if need be.
 

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#16
Anderton
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 20:05:51 (permalink)
gbowling
This brought up some question and ideas in my mind. 



Gabo, that post is fascinating and your contribution is duly noted and much appreciated.
 
For what it's worth, when I was doing the actual mastering all the choices regarding frequencies to boost or cut was done by ear, not by looking at graphs. After all these years I can "get in the ballpark" for where the EQ should be, but also have a technique that helps greatly in identifying those frequencies very precisely. But, do note that just because there's a bump or dip doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem. There are some situations where that is natural and desirable in a piece of music.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#17
gbowling
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 20:19:33 (permalink)
Anderton
For what it's worth, when I was doing the actual mastering all the choices regarding frequencies to boost or cut was done by ear, not by looking at graphs. After all these years I can "get in the ballpark" for where the EQ should be, but also have a technique that helps greatly in identifying those frequencies very precisely. But, do note that just because there's a bump or dip doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem. There are some situations where that is natural and desirable in a piece of music.



That's pretty impressive! I can usually hear a ballpark of what frequencies need work, but usually not close enough to start tweaking EQ settings without some visual feedback. My ears hear "something in the low end" needs some work and from experience I would generally guess that it might be in that "mud range" around 200hz. Then I might tweak around on the EQ till I find what I like.
 
Would be interesting to hear more about your technique for identifying the frequencies.
 
I'll also agree that a bump or a dip doesn't necessarily mean it needs "fixed."
 
But the analysis part of har-bal does help me in determining things that need work and generally does a better job of it than any other tool I have. It can also be a great "learning tool" especially for people who haven't got as much experience. As I said, it's not a replacement for a Craig Anderton or a Bob Ludwig but it can help you learn things faster than trial and error.
 
Cheers
gabo

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#18
jpetersen
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 21:12:50 (permalink)
Out of interest, has anyone put these through LandR?
(Internet is slow and unreliable here, so I can't try it)
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rtucker55
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 21:25:05 (permalink)
The Before and After mastering results were an amazing transformation, especially on the second entry. Just curious if Craig prefers certain genres over others. I would love to hear one of his masters on a smooth modern jazz tune.

Purrrfect Audio DAW here.  Wow!...
#20
Anderton
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/26 22:59:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rtucker55 2016/02/27 09:54:51
rtucker55
The Before and After mastering results were an amazing transformation, especially on the second entry. Just curious if Craig prefers certain genres over others. I would love to hear one of his masters on a smooth modern jazz tune.



A lot of people say they like all kinds of music, but I really do...well, aside from Finnish Death Metal Whaling Songs in 6/8. Although maybe I just haven't found the best examples of the genre.
 
Anyway I don't get much call to master smooth modern jazz. I can't remember if I did anything particularly notable, although of course if I had, I couldn't post anything without the permission of the artist anyway.
 
Tell you what...if you work in that genre, I'll do a "mastering with a small 'm'" on it as long as you give me permission to post the before and after. Just bear in mind it could take weeks to get to it, given my workload. If that's okay, PM me with a hightail.com download link or whatever. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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rtucker55
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/27 09:56:33 (permalink)
You lucky guy you!  I have always wished I had a more diverse appreciation for multiple genres as it seems to open up more opportunities to succeed, and be happy, in the music business.
 
I sincerely appreciate your reply, contributions, and generous offer.
 
Kind regards,
Rick Tucker

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#22
olemon
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/29 20:41:40 (permalink)
Bump....

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#23
tlw
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Re: A Public Service Video about Mastering with SONAR 2016/02/29 21:18:03 (permalink)
The transformation of the second track is remarkable. Unmastered it's obviously intended to sound powerful from start to finish, but has everything happening at once through the audio spectrum all the time so it doesn't sound powerful. Instead it's muddy and muffled.

The mastered version puts back a lot of energy that what was probably in the performer's and mix engineer's mind(s) but they didn't manage to capture at the mix stage. What I find particularly interesting is the mastered version adds quite a bit of top end presence and brightness but is much less tiring to listen to than the mix version. It also has more perceived dynamics than the mix version despite having a touch higher overall rms.

A good job on both tracks. The second in particular sounds pretty release-ready to me, I've paid good money for far worse music.

Out of interest Craig, have you any thoughts on linear phase eq vs "ordinary"? And any particular reason for using L3 rather than e.g. Concrete Limiter or a single-band limiter like L2?

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