Helpful ReplyA gift that keeps on giving...

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Rain
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2014/02/08 16:28:30 (permalink)

A gift that keeps on giving...

Some might remember that story from last year when I woke up to the sound of helicopters circling in the sky above our neighbour, went downstairs to prepare coffee, pulled the blinds, looked through the glass door and saw two kids hiding for merely 2 seconds before I went up to call 911 and grab a baseball bat...
 
A month later I received a first subpoena but finally didn't have to show up. I should mention that I couldn't even identify the kids when they caught them an hour later, merely their clothes, as loosely matching, not all that conclusively as far as I'm concerned. 
 
This morning, guess what I found in the mail? A second subpoena. 
 
You guys have no idea how pissed off I am... It's just like being dragged into this old nightmare which I thought we'd finally left behind. I've always tried to live the most irreproachable life because, 1: I have a conscience and I'm not an **** and 2: I don't want to have anything to do with crime or criminals or anything that could mess with my desire for a simple, honest and quiet life.
 
Yet I'm once again dragged into it because of this repeated offender who's made the life choice of not only not contributing, but actually enjoying the fruits of other people's hard work - having them slaved for him, more or less. And when he gets caught, society still ends up paying the bills.

It's like there's no end to the negative consequences, either way we put it, there's no way of fixing this to everyone's benefit. We all have to pay for his existence, any which way...
post edited by Rain - 2014/02/08 16:31:57

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#1
ampfixer
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 16:35:06 (permalink)
Well, rich people and politicians always fall back on the "I can't recall" line. Maybe you should put it to work. The justice system is designed to help criminals and the rich. Average people pay for both of them but the rich can bend justice to their will if their pockets are deep enough.
 
 

Regards, John 
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#2
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 16:45:12 (permalink)
ampfixer
Well, rich people and politicians always fall back on the "I can't recall" line. Maybe you should put it to work. The justice system is designed to help criminals and the rich. Average people pay for both of them but the rich can bend justice to their will if their pockets are deep enough.
 
 




Right on, John.
 
It is a fact, I cannot identify any of them. Even on the spot, the cops acknowledged that it was quite understandable that I wouldn't recognize them.
 
Besides the financial pit they represent on a collective level, what frustrates me even more is to have my life reorganized to accommodate this charade, even if it's just for a day, to have my freedom revoked even if it were just for an hour.
 
(Actually, considering that I have to be there on a Monday morning at 8:45, that we only have one car and that my wife has two shows every night plus rehearsals 5 days a week these days, it involves a lot more and has quite an impact on us.)

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Old55
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 18:36:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rain 2014/02/08 18:43:13
I'm sorry for the imposition.  I don't know why they're bothering you with this since you can't identify them anyway.  You did what you needed to do by alerting the police to they're presence in your yard.  But that's how the gears of justice grind away.  Unfortunately, those gears have a habit of grinding away on innocent bystanders, too.  
 
Good luck with all the logistics and other headaches you'll have to deal with.  It's no way to start the week, either.  

Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
 
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sharke
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 18:41:21 (permalink)
It scares me how bad I am at describing a face I've seen only 5 minutes before. I have no idea how the cops end up with those artist impressions from witness descriptions, especially when they're so good that the perp ends up being caught on the strength of it. 
 
"Describe his nose"
"It had two nostrils and seemed to be in working order"
"Describe his eyes"
"They were kind of eye shaped"
"Describe his mouth"
"Closed, except for when he was talking"
 
 
I'd probably end up with something like this (mind you, they apparently caught the man in question as pictured on the right):
 

 
But man, once those cops get it into their heads that you're going to be their star witness, there's no stopping them. Many years ago back in England I partially witnessed an assault and told cops I probably wouldn't recognize them again. They sent me a summons which I didn't get for one reason and another, then the next thing I knew I'm walking out of a public bathroom in the city center and this scruffy, unwashed looking guy taps me on the shoulder and says my name. I said "yes?" and he immediately shoved a summons into my hand. It was an undercover cop! To this day I don't even know how in the hell he found me - the only explanation is that he must have trailed me from my home all the way into the city center (a good couple of miles). But why? A uniformed cop could have just handed me the summons as I was coming out of my building. I know what it's like when you just can't be bothered with this crap and you know you're not going to be any help to the case. But, you gotta do it....

James
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#5
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 19:02:24 (permalink)
I once had to go to court as a witness for an incident involving a bus driver and a passenger. When the cops walked in the bus and asked who'd seen it happen, I raised my hand, because, I obviously had, and it was obvious that every one in the bus had seen it happen - two guys yelling at each other and coming to hands at the front of the vehicle...
 
Turns out that I was the only one in that rather crowded bus to have witnessed anything. No one else raised their and...
 
As for identification... The shock of discovering intruders in your backyards, one of them popping in front of you out of nowhere - when I'd just got out of bed, before my first coffee... You just want to identify if there's any immediate threat (locate their hands and try to see if they're hiding something). Then call 911 and make sure that you secure the perimeter, as much as possible...
 
But as for the rest... My description of the intruders would get a positive ID on 99% of the NBA players.

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slartabartfast
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 19:21:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rain 2014/02/08 19:58:38
Be thankful you did not witness a crime committed by a truly connected perpetrator. Witnesses have had their lives ruined, careers lost and families put beyond their reach by the simple act of seeing something they were not supposed to see, and being sucked into a "witness protection" program of one sort or another. 
 
As for the subpoena: if it came from the prosecutor, you will probably not actually be testifying. The rule of thumb in court is that you should never ask a question you do not know the answer to and the answer must support your case. If your statements to the police were as unhelpful as you suggest, the prosecutor should know that your testimony will only add to the jury's confusion, and help the defense cast doubt on the identity of those arrested. Your name on a list of witnesses, however, will help him to bluff the defense into a plea bargain. If you are being called by the defense, then your uncertainty may actually be what he wants the jury to hear about, especially if he wants to paint the police as having grabbed the first live bodies they came across. At least you are not being called to answer for assaulting the kids with a baseball bat. 
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Old55
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 19:35:53 (permalink)
Rain
I once had to go to court as a witness for an incident involving a bus driver and a passenger. When the cops walked in the bus and asked who'd seen it happen, I raised my hand, because, I obviously had, and it was obvious that every one in the bus had seen it happen - two guys yelling at each other and coming to hands at the front of the vehicle...
 
Turns out that I was the only one in that rather crowded bus to have witnessed anything. No one else raised their and...
 
As for identification... The shock of discovering intruders in your backyards, one of them popping in front of you out of nowhere - when I'd just got out of bed, before my first coffee... You just want to identify if there's any immediate threat (locate their hands and try to see if they're hiding something). Then call 911 and make sure that you secure the perimeter, as much as possible...
 
But as for the rest... My description of the intruders would get a positive ID on 99% of the NBA players.


You're just a magnet for trouble, aren't you?  
 
I've managed to avoid most of that stuff.  I been on jury duty a couple of times.  I actually got on one trial.  It was interesting to see how the legal system works--at least on a small-time instance.  

Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
 
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Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/08 20:22:52 (permalink)
Even though I often question our ethics and the reasoning behind them and what sometimes look like non-senses in our democratic societies, at the end of the day, I put all theoretical disagreement aside and quite candidly oblige. 
 
It's ironic to see that the people who refuse to question any of those noble principles we've inherited are often the first ones to seek every possible ways to exempt themselves from the resulting responsibilities. They're the people who didn't see a thing in the bus.
 
Maybe as a result of often feeling alienated in their world, I always behave as a guest and yield to rules, even when I can't vouch for them. Which is what I think potentially makes me such a magnet. 
 
But now I just wish that they'd remove my name from their little list where it ended up because of a couple of carbon units in favour of which I cannot say a word.

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jamesg1213
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 03:58:13 (permalink)
The only thing I've witnessed, where I was required to give a statement, was the carnage at a fatal RTA. I wish I could unsee it.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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craigb
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 04:22:19 (permalink)
Not sure I want to know, but what's an "RTA?"

 
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jamesg1213
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 05:42:52 (permalink)
Road traffic accident.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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slartabartfast
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 14:30:58 (permalink)
sharke
It scares me how bad I am at describing a face I've seen only 5 minutes before. I have no idea how the cops end up with those artist impressions from witness descriptions, especially when they're so good that the perp ends up being caught on the strength of it. 



It is not just you. There is a large body of scientific evidence that questions the validity of eyewitness testimony. The police rely on the natural tendency of witnesses to see what they expect to see, and to try to please authority figures who they trust would not present them with an innocent to identify. A vague recollection can become distinctive, detailed and set in stone as the time to testify approaches. Juries, on their part, tend to give eyewitness testimony way too much credibility, since they can see no reason why a witness would "lie" about what he saw.
 
If you have not already seen this demonstration of witness unreliability you should take a look.
 
http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/videos.html
 
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Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 16:59:15 (permalink)
It doesn't get much more random than this - according to the cops we spoke to, there were 4 guys. 2 of them did hide in my backyard for a while. I am assuming that they are calling me for either one of those two. Not that it actually makes any difference.
 
One of them was facing the other direction, I never even saw his face. The second I saw but for a second. And as much as I'd hate to sound like a racist, the only ID I could give is "slender young african-american" or whatever the PC term is these days. A year later? Forget it...

I have to assume that two of the guys they caught were the same guys I saw in my backyard.
 
Out of the 4 of them, unless two actually confessed that they did hide here, the only "evidence" is the clothing the cops found under the patio set. Personally, I can only assume that it was one of them who left it there. It is most probable, but I cannot be 100% positive about it. I wouldn't know which of them two left it there, either. 
 
It is all purely circumstantial. I didn't see them enter the house they broke in, I didn't see them carrying stolen goods... I called the cops in regards to people in my backyard, but I cannot identify them. The clothing I assume is theirs.
 
Pretty weak...
post edited by Rain - 2014/02/09 17:05:29

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Rimshot
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 17:17:38 (permalink)
Hang tough Rain.  I know this is not fun for you but it will all pass in time.  All things must pass right?  I had an event in L.A. where I caught someone break into my house and as soon as I saw them they jumped out the window.  I called the cops and later they picked me up and draw me by the guys they caught.  THey were facing away from us so that our faces would not be clearly visable to them.  THat was it for me and I did not have to go to court.
 
Is there any other recourse you might have with the D.A.?  Hope it is all over soon for you.
 
Jimmy
 

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craigb
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 17:19:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rain 2014/02/09 17:22:53
I always crack up when a TV show or movie has a courtroom scene where a useless waste of flesh lawyer asks what a person was doing at a certain time on some date well over a year in the past - and the person claims to know exactly what that was!

 
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Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 17:44:23 (permalink)
Rimshot
Hang tough Rain.  I know this is not fun for you but it will all pass in time.  All things must pass right?  I had an event in L.A. where I caught someone break into my house and as soon as I saw them they jumped out the window.  I called the cops and later they picked me up and draw me by the guys they caught.  THey were facing away from us so that our faces would not be clearly visable to them.  THat was it for me and I did not have to go to court.
 
Is there any other recourse you might have with the D.A.?  Hope it is all over soon for you.
 
Jimmy
 




I wished they'd contacted me for a phone interview or something, to determine whether I could be of any assistance. Personally - and not only because it pisses me off to have to be there - I believe that the only answers I can give would actually serve the accused better than the prosecutor.
 
There are many too many details I can't ignore, too many assumptions which I cannot make, assumptions which would be crucial for the prosecution to get what they want. As much as I find the system isn't a tenth as hard as it should be on criminals, in this case, there's no way anything I can say could be used against anyone without being intellectually dishonest. (Yeah, I know, that's how lawyers earn their life...)
 
The last time I acted as a witness, the judge took a moment to thank me and mention that I was one of the most articulated witness he'd heard in his career. (The fact that it was in French helped I guess...) My tendency to exhaustively analyze events and a certain gift for logical deduction mean that it's a lot harder to get a usable  statement out of me. In this case, this could better serve the defendant than the prosecution.
 
 

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ampfixer
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 20:49:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rain 2014/02/09 23:09:53
Hey Rain, why not just tell them you're a Canadian related to R:Ob Ford? They will toss you out on your butt real fast.

Regards, John 
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craigb
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 21:11:41 (permalink)
Or point at the judge and say "What's with the guy in the dress?" 

 
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Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/09 23:29:03 (permalink)
Not that long ago I watched the documentary Trekkies, featuring (you might have heard about her) a lady in Arkansas who showed up for jury duty in full Starfleet attire - uniform, badge and all. 
 
They eventually dismissed her.
 
Considering that I'm currently in a Star Trek marathon finally getting into the Next Generation and streaming (legally) episodes almost non-stop, I think it would be credible that I'd show up with a federation costume, Vulcan ears and all.
 
Maybe it'd work for me.
If not, I could try dressing as a Klingon and requesting either a universal translator or an interpreter.
 
K'pla!!!
 
 
post edited by Rain - 2014/02/09 23:30:36

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craigb
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/10 00:12:45 (permalink)

 
Maybe they'll give you a Babel fish. 

 
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ampfixer
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/10 03:14:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rain 2014/02/10 13:34:38
Rain
Not that long ago I watched the documentary Trekkies, featuring (you might have heard about her) a lady in Arkansas who showed up for jury duty in full Starfleet attire - uniform, badge and all. 
 
They eventually dismissed her.
 
Considering that I'm currently in a Star Trek marathon finally getting into the Next Generation and streaming (legally) episodes almost non-stop, I think it would be credible that I'd show up with a federation costume, Vulcan ears and all.
 
Maybe it'd work for me.
If not, I could try dressing as a Klingon and requesting either a universal translator or an interpreter.
 
K'pla!!!
 
 




Be Canadian. Red toque with a white pom-pom, flannel shirt, parka and hockey stick. You know, Canadian formal.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#22
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/10 13:45:59 (permalink)
Just got back.
 
Looks like I got up in the middle of the night (7am) and showed up for nothing. Postponed at the last minute for whatever reason. 
 
And guess what? I'll most likely get a 3rd subpoena and go through this crap again.
 
Whether it's your money or your goods or your time and energy, parasites always feed on you... I guess they do give back in return - they must represent a goldmine for those prosecuting and defending them...
 
By the way, what do you call someone who feeds on parasites?

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craigb
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/10 15:26:59 (permalink)
Rain
 
By the way, what do you call someone who feeds on parasites?




If I knew, I'd call 'em!
 
BTW - I'm lovin' your new online avatar. 

 
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#24
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/10 15:49:54 (permalink)
No need to call, they'll get in touch via subpoena. ;)
 
BTW - Thanks. It puts a smile on my face every time I see it. 

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#25
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/14 17:05:07 (permalink)
And giving... 3rd subpoena. I'm starting to develop mailbox anxiety.
 
I think what bothers me the most is to have my honest citizen freedom tempered with and my basic rights suspended over and over again so that a criminal can have a fair trial and cash in on the benefits of a contract he broke repeatedly. It is revolting to be that helpless and not to have an option to decide for yourself.
 
It's I who should sue those scums for all the nights of sleep I've lost and my case of mailbox anxiety. 
 
The minute they jumped in our backyard, they started messing my life, and the consequences keep on piling up...

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#26
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/14 17:13:27 (permalink)
By the way, I got to speak with the prosecutor before I left last Monday, told her that I really wasn't sure that I'd be of any help and she told me to get back in touch with whoever would be working the case if I received another subpoena. She'd suggested that I called the generic number, but I didn't feel all that happy with that so I looked up the Victim Witness dept and called them as well.
 
Hopefully I'll get a call back and I'll finally be able to at least speak with someone.
 

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Old55
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/14 21:52:58 (permalink)
Alright, witness protection for Rain!  

Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
 
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craigb
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/14 22:42:29 (permalink)
There's some posters upstairs that could use witless protection... 

 
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#29
Rain
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Re: A gift that keeps on giving... 2014/02/14 23:43:56 (permalink)
Not quite - I'm merely trying to get in touch with someone to make up for an obvious lack of screening and to try to regain a bit of control on my life. That Witness Victim dept. is seemingly the most appropriate place for me to start.
 
I feel so frustrated to be called up to show up in court w/o anyone interviewing me or even just calling me and to simply be kept in the dark.  No one says anything and I just keep receiving subpoenas, at random times. This generates an insane amount of stress.
 
And it's not just a matter of a possible retaliation - it's the complete disregard for my life which leaves me the impression that I'm a toy they can do whatever with w/o so much as a curtesy call - all that to give a fair trial to a repeated offender.
 
Not to mention, showing up in court at 8:45 for me is like having to wake up at 2 am for the average Joe - my wife works nights and we've lived accordingly for years. I can't just go to bed early that one night hoping that I'll catch my 6-8 hours - it takes me weeks to adapt. I've already lost sleep because of those thieves and I am tired of having them suck more life out of me.
 
Plus, I don't drive and we only have one car anyway so I have to take a cab - last time they estimated my transportation to $34, when it actually cost me $70. So I'm actually wasting money for that criminal to have a fair trial, all that when I cannot identify him.
 
 
I just want them to cross my name off that list or at least have a word in it and speak with them. It sickens me to have that dangling over my head.
post edited by Rain - 2014/02/14 23:45:35

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