Helpful ReplyA tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time.

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tenfoot
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2017/12/01 09:14:39 (permalink)

A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time.

Hey folks.
 
Perhaps everyone already knows this. I did not, but am gad I do now, so I thought I would mention it. :)
 
It is no news that Studio One is not in Sonar's league for midi editing. There is no event editor, so If you happen to use midi CC messages for anything, the only way to edit these is in Studio One's version of the controller pane. On top of this, in a questionable attempt to be innovative, Presonus chose to implement their own nonstandard internal midi functioning, an aspect of which is the midi CC range is not represented as 0 - 127 or 1 - 128 as it is everywhere else, but by much a finer grained though completely pointless scale of 0 - 100%.  The good news is that in later versions of Studio One, despite this being the default, you can change scale back to standard 0-127 by clicking on the scale at the bottom left corner of the controller pane and choosing midi.
 
That is all:)

Bruce.
 
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#1
Kamikaze
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 09:20:17 (permalink)
My tip would be - post in the software forum


 
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dlesaux
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 10:07:23 (permalink)
Great tip. I had actually made up a chart to convert between midi values and percent but this makes it way easier!

Peace!
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#3
tenfoot
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 10:55:47 (permalink)
dlesaux
Great tip. I had actually made up a chart to convert between midi values and percent but this makes it way easier!


Thats exactly what I was doing when I stumbled accross this Daniel:)

Bruce.
 
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artturner
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 13:42:33 (permalink)
Great tip! I also discovered last night that there is no way to quantize MIDI with an offset. I suppose I will be forced to learn Cubase, but Studio One has had a much quicker learning curve to me.

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dwardzala
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 14:08:47 (permalink)
Check out Johnny Geib's (HomeStudioTrainer) YouTube channel.  He has done two videos on Studio One midi specifically for Sonar users, to help them understand S1's midi capabilities.  I think there may be a reasonably elegant way to "offset quantize" using fields in the info panel.

Dave
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#6
pwalpwal
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 14:35:53 (permalink)
when using new software, rtfm

just a sec

#7
mettelus
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 14:42:31 (permalink)
pwalpwal
when using new software, rtfm


I thought that was only a last resort option??

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KingsMix
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 14:44:55 (permalink)
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DeeringAmps
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 15:16:22 (permalink)
I don't think Studio One is really a "midi editing" program; just my experience.
I own it, don't use it, hopefully they will concentrate a little more on midi in the future.
Will revert to X3e if Splat goes "splat".
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thepianist65
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 15:45:46 (permalink)
The videos are great! Thanks so much for posting this...

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https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
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thepianist65
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 16:47:53 (permalink)
As usual, I cannot find the obvious, can the OP explain or screen shot where you can change the velocity or other midi values from percentage to 1-128. I cannot seem to find the lower right corner of the controller pane, nor can I find an explanation in the help files. Oh, geez, whatta struggle, but I'm really liking what I'm learning so far.
Thanks. hopefully by the time you respond I will have (finally) found this on my own.
 
AND I DID, thanks, disregard my post...never mind...

 www.davemaffris.com
 BLUES:
https://www.facebook.com/coastalblueband1/
 
https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#12
tenfoot
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 17:38:20 (permalink)
thepianist65
As usual, I cannot find the obvious, can the OP explain or screen shot where you can change the velocity or other midi values from percentage to 1-128. I cannot seem to find the lower right corner of the controller pane, nor can I find an explanation in the help files. Oh, geez, whatta struggle, but I'm really liking what I'm learning so far.
Thanks. hopefully by the time you respond I will have (finally) found this on my own.
 
AND I DID, thanks, disregard my post...never mind...


Cool. Glad you found it!

Bruce.
 
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#13
Jeff Evans
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/01 19:26:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/12/02 02:30:03
Most of you are not well informed about its midi capability.  Yes it is not as deep as say Logic, Cubase or Sonar but it still deep.  I do a serious amount of midi editing using external hardware too and in that regard it excels. Midi timing is exceptional in Studio One with external instruments, the midi timing is independent of how hard the audio side of the program is working.  It is always rock solid to the click.  Its ability to capture nuances with timing playing live for example is also excellent.  The scale operations are variable in how you see and use them. 
 
The other thing is the midi operations are deep and advanced and many may not have all the knowledge about them and where they are located.  It took me a while to find everything about the midi operations.  A great video to watch is Recording and Editing with Midi in the Groove 3 collection. 
 
There is stuff it cannot do e.g. SYSEX being one of them and no event list for example. (I use Sonar for that!)  We are hopeful that the midi side will get advancements over time.  The other thing most of you are forgetting too and that is the program is young and will most likely get very extended midi functions and operations over time.  But right now it can do a huge amount anyway.  I control 10 external devices as well as virtual instruments. It does not have instrument definitions but that is not big deal if you are someone who is changing the patch memories around a lot in your instruments which is what I do all the time.
 
It can do some amazing things like loop record and jump midi tracks on the fly and it will add data in while live loop recording.  Something Sonar cannot even hope to do.  You can open up the PRV and erase notes too all on the fly while recording. With hardware you can set up a test to determine hardware latency of each instrument you own. Then you can advance or delay midi tracks by millisecond increments to adjust for super fine timing etc.. You can edit multiple midi tracks at once with ease.  We have Note Fx now. You can chop a long midi part into smaller events and apply different Note Fx on each section. Tons of quantising options. On the way in, after recording. Groove matching all possible.  Melodyne will convert audio to midi then you create things from there. Live music can be tempo mapped with ease now and dragged straight in to the tempo time line.  Midi stuff can be overdubbed after that so you are working on the grid.  But you can still play live against the grid on a tempo mapped piece.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2017/12/01 20:20:02

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#14
tenfoot
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/02 02:13:26 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Most of you are not well informed about its midi capability.  Yes it is not as deep as say Logic, Cubase or Sonar but it still deep.  I do a serious amount of midi editing using external hardware too and in that regard it excels. Midi timing is exceptional in Studio One with external instruments, the midi timing is independent of how hard the audio side of the program is working.  It is always rock solid to the click.  Its ability to capture nuances with timing playing live for example is also excellent.  The scale operations are variable in how you see and use them. 
 
The other thing is the midi operations are deep and advanced and many may not have all the knowledge about them and where they are located.  It took me a while to find everything about the midi operations.  A great video to watch is Recording and Editing with Midi in the Groove 3 collection. 
 
There is stuff it cannot do e.g. SYSEX being one of them and no event list for example. (I use Sonar for that!)  We are hopeful that the midi side will get advancements over time.  The other thing most of you are forgetting too and that is the program is young and will most likely get very extended midi functions and operations over time.  But right now it can do a huge amount anyway.  I control 10 external devices as well as virtual instruments. It does not have instrument definitions but that is not big deal if you are someone who is changing the patch memories around a lot in your instruments which is what I do all the time.
 
It can do some amazing things like loop record and jump midi tracks on the fly and it will add data in while live loop recording.  Something Sonar cannot even hope to do.  You can open up the PRV and erase notes too all on the fly while recording. With hardware you can set up a test to determine hardware latency of each instrument you own. Then you can advance or delay midi tracks by millisecond increments to adjust for super fine timing etc.. You can edit multiple midi tracks at once with ease.  We have Note Fx now. You can chop a long midi part into smaller events and apply different Note Fx on each section. Tons of quantising options. On the way in, after recording. Groove matching all possible.  Melodyne will convert audio to midi then you create things from there. Live music can be tempo mapped with ease now and dragged straight in to the tempo time line.  Midi stuff can be overdubbed after that so you are working on the grid.  But you can still play live against the grid on a tempo mapped piece.


Hey Jeff.
 
You seem to have a good understanding of midi in Studio One so perhaps you can help me with something that is beyond the user guide. I too use midi to control a lot of outboard gear on 3 different systems. As a result, in Sonar I would route all midi to loopbe 30 internal virtual midi channels, then use Bome Midi Translator to map those channels to the external hardware. This meant that I could open the projects on any of the three systems without re routing the midi channels.  I can't find any way to do this in Studio one, and is the only major deficiency I have found in its midi operation.  Even with iidentical internal virtual midi channels set up on each system,Studio One still sees them as different, and all midi chanels need to be rerouted. I have tried both the standard and legacy midi settings to no avail.
 
I totally agree that the midi implemented so far works really well. As to the 'enhanced' midi 0-100% scale, given that every midi keyboard sends note velocities and every other cc message in the value range of 1-127 in degrees of 1, how is it of any practical use? It can't respond  with more accuracy/definition than the command it is receiving. Perhaps they are developing their own keyboard range that would address this.
 
I am very impressed with Studio One and am enjoying it immensely.  A bit of work on the midi editing side would put it way ahead of the pack!

Bruce.
 
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sonarman1
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/03 07:58:33 (permalink)
KingsMix
 Sonar User's Special - HST Studio One MIDI Basics


Thanks for the video, I am really in love with how you can just use the mouse wheel to do all the midi editing in S1. 


Yes it is not as deep as say Logic, Cubase or Sonar but it still deep.


Everybody seem to say this but is there something of a big deal that's in Sonar, Logic and Cubase that S1 cant do in terms of midi editing? 
I do see the absence of event editor (available in Logic, Cubase and Sonar)
Chord track chord assistant ( available in Cubase, (Not sure abt logic))
Step sequencer (available in Logic, Cubase, Sonar
Note Expression ( available in Cubase)
What else? pls educate me.

Other than these handy extra features (which I hope will be implemented soon in S!) is there any way S1 is inferior to these daws in terms of core midi editing? With my so far little experience I find the midi editing as good as others. Although there is no good smart tool in S1 its ability to edit midi notes by using mouse wheel feels so cool(Does other daws Logic or Cubase have this feature, I am in love with this particular feature). 
#16
tenfoot
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/03 10:25:44 (permalink)
sonarman1

Other than these handy extra features (which I hope will be implemented soon in S!) is there any way S1 is inferior to these daws in terms of core midi editing? With my so far little experience I find the midi editing as good as others. 


 Having spent a few days with it and read the manual Sonarman, I dont think it is inferioir. I wasnt able to solve my complex midi routing/different systems issue, but that is certainly a niche limitation that next to no one will notice. Incrediblly, after 25 years with Cakewalk, I now prefer Studio One and am happy to move on. It is fast and cabable. It's not the same as Sonar,  but I am no longer sure that is such a bad thing:) 
 
It turns out you can teach an old dog new tricks!

Bruce.
 
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Paw
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/03 10:53:42 (permalink)
Hi Jeff, does SO3 have something like smart grid? And multitrack editing in PRV. In Sonar I can choose what multiple track from list I want to edit, and rest are blocked. Is there similar functionality in SO3?
Regards Paul.
 
Ah, there is track list in SO3, so nevermind...
post edited by Paw - 2017/12/03 11:46:51

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#18
tenfoot
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/03 16:53:03 (permalink)
Studio One does have a version of smart grid (called adaptive snap), and you can edit multiple tracks in the PRV. You simply click on the tracks in the arrange window that you wish to display in the PRV, and the display changes dynamically according to your selection. Control + select will add additional tracks. You can also choose to colorise events by track in order to differentiate between them with multiple tracks open  in the PRV. It works well, but just isn't quite as refined as midi editing in Sonar. It does have its own advantages though:)
 
 

Bruce.
 
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Jeff Evans
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/03 18:35:41 (permalink)
There is a key command which will switch tools. So you can work with the normal arrow/pointer tool (or any tool for that matter) allowing to grab audio or midi events and move them around or do normal pointer operations.  As soon as you press and hold the key command key, the tool switches to what ever you have set e.g. a cut tool. This really speeds up workflow. You let go and it returns to normal.  It is not quite the Pro Tools smart tool but a fine version of it though.
 
In automation modes too the tool changes its function depending on whether you are above or below the centre line.  Automation playback resolution is now adjustable from very fine to course. (3.5.3 latest update) 
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2017/12/04 18:13:01

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Paw
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/03 21:57:22 (permalink)
Thanks, there's plenty of functions in midi area in SO3, its generally very good DAW for my work. But I'm waiting for better tempo editing (like automation in Cubase), and track templates. Switching now is like good exchange for good.
Regard, Paul

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#21
raisindot
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/04 17:18:50 (permalink)
Not having event list functionality is a deal-breaker for me. I use that more than any other MIDI function to correct mistakes or change things, especially in conjunction with Sonar's search and replace filters. 
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Jeff Evans
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Re: A tip for any Sonarite trying studio one midi editing for the first time. 2017/12/04 18:25:50 (permalink)
That is the beauty of having more than one DAW.  I still have Sonar Producer 8.5 installed on another 32 bit machine. My computers are networked so I can boot up Sonar and it can open say a midi file. From my main machine without even moving it.  You can edit then using the event list.  Re-save under a new name and then open that file in your session.  I have used this especially for opening up commercial midi files and sometimes having to remove a series of un-needed events that are sometimes planted in the first one or two intro bars.  Which can cause grief.
 
There is plenty of midi expansion to come we think.  It is likely that in a major update e.g. Studio One V4 they will implement a host of midi features.
 
This where the thinking comes in too.  You should be able to do most editing things you do in the event list now by using the visual cues now e.g. the PRV. and learning how to use it.  It is possible now to microscopically edit parts of your midi event performances in Studio One.  You can also run Notion side by side and work with the score view if you are so inclined.  There is a level of deeper integration between Notion and Studio One. They talk to each other. 
 
 

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Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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