AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD...

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dantarbill
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2018/03/26 01:47:47 (permalink)

AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD...

I recently updated Applied Audio Systems String Studio VS-2 to version 2.1.0 and tried instantiating it in a SPlat project (version 23.10.0 build 14).
 
It crashed my system...not just the SONAR application.  The blue screen described it as a "Page Fault in Unpaged Area".
 
This is 100% repeatable.  It blows up with the VST2 and VST3 versions.  This also occurs with all the other AAS softsynths I tried with the exception of Tassman 4.1, which is no longer being updated.  Other non-AAS softsynths I tried also worked fine.
 
My system information...
Windows 10 Pro, version 1709, build 16299.309
Intel i7-3930K @ 3.20 GHz
16 GB RAM
AMD Radeon HD 5450
 
This smells very much like an AAS problem, but attempting to contact them reveals that their support resources don't seem to be very robust.
 
Has anyone else had problems with AAS stuff?
 
Note that AAS plugs supplied with SONAR (like Strum and Lounge Lizard) seem to still work, but they seem to be built on the same older framework as Tassman.
post edited by dantarbill - 2018/03/26 02:21:10

Dan Tarbill
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    promidi
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 11:20:27 (permalink)
    I am using AAS String Studio VS-2 version 2.10 on Sonar Platinum with the following configuration:

    Windows 10 Pro, version 1709, build 16299.309 Fully patched
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    Focusrite 2i2 2nd Generation with January 2018 drivers
    Sample rate 44.1 khz
    24 bit set to 256 samples

    I am not having any issues what-so-ever.

    Do you get the BSOD using the stand alone version or just within Sonar?

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    #2
    karhide
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 11:45:33 (permalink)
    I have contacted AAS support and compared to some companies they are pretty good but will not be instant. 
     
    I don't have String Studio but have their other synths and have not had an issue with them. Normally a BSOD would be cause at the driver level and not software. What audio interface are you using and are your drivers up to date? 

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    Wookiee
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 13:04:48 (permalink)
    I do not have the String Studio, however the test I just did with the ASS stuff I do have, Strum, Lounge, Ultra Analogue and Player all worked fine on both my PC's.

    What are your system specifications?

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    #4
    azslow3
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 14:29:32 (permalink)
    In modern Windows (and other OSes), applications are unable to cause BSOD. Even intentionally (and I am sure AAS has no such intention).
     
    But they can trigger BSOD in buggy driver or system itself.
     
    There are 2 places where VST "speak" with the system, drawing own interface and in the anti-piracy checking.
     
    Try to run VS-2 standalone.

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    #5
    35mm
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 15:44:57 (permalink)
    +1 for what Azslow3 said above. Blue screen relates to hardware. It can be an indicator of a hardware problem such as a memory chip dying or a loose component. However, I don't think it suggests a hardware failure in your case as you only seem to be getting it with AAS plugs and nothing else? It could be driver related. It could possibly be related to your graphics card so update your graphics driver and make sure all your drivers are up to date. Also as others have suggested try running the standalone version to see if you still have the problem - if you still have the problem you then know it's specific to AAS. If not the problem relates to AAS running in Sonar and the interaction it has with the hardware through Sonar. Have you got another DAW you can try it with too?

    Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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    Brando
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 15:45:27 (permalink)
    I have String Studio and use it and the other AAS synths all the time. I hadn't used SONAR in quite a while so I just loaded platinum up (last/final build) and loaded up string studio (v 2.1, 64 bit VSTi2) and confirmed it is working properly here. I am using Windows 10 pro 64 bit and it is current and up to date as well. So not Windows 10 (per se) either as far as I can tell. As others have said it would more likely be something system specific.

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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/26 19:46:15 (permalink)
    I've seen some useful suggestions here.
     
    I guess there are a couple of possible hardware exposures.  One is the audio driver.  I'm running a relatively ancient M-Audio Firewire 1814 interface running the ASIO driver version 5.10.0.5058, which I downloaded on 09/27/2010.  I don't think this is being updated anymore, so they don't have an explicit Win10 version.
     
    The other exposure is the video driver...which I can do something about.  It's quite possible that video is where the problem lies, since there's a marked difference between the presentation of the older/working AAS plugs (like Tassman, Strum and Lounge Lizard) and the presentation framework of the newer/crashing plugs (Ultra Analog and String Studio).
     
    Lemme update my video drivers and see what that does.
     
    Oh...running in another host (Savihost) works fine.  I haven't tried running their own standalone.

    Dan Tarbill
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    35mm
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 01:02:34 (permalink)
    I'm using an ancient M-audio ProjectMix which I expect may use the same firewire driver. I got it off ebay last summer, so I went to M-audio website and downloaded the latest driver. I think the release date of that driver was 2015 and may have been for win 8 - works fine with win 10 and no issues with my AAS plugs. If you are running a driver from 2010 I would recommend you update it for the latest one even if it isn't the cause of your problem.

    Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 15:42:06 (permalink)
    35mm
    I'm using an ancient M-audio ProjectMix which I expect may use the same firewire driver. I got it off ebay last summer, so I went to M-audio website and downloaded the latest driver. I think the release date of that driver was 2015 and may have been for win 8 - works fine with win 10 and no issues with my AAS plugs. If you are running a driver from 2010 I would recommend you update it for the latest one even if it isn't the cause of your problem.


    It would appear that the latest driver for my Firewire 1814 is the 5.10.0.5058 that was released 11/14/2009 for Windows 7 (64).  There wasn't anything released after that for Win8 or Win10.
     
    I also tried updating the video driver for my AMD Radeon HD 5450.  It turns out that it has also lapsed into "legacy" state and only had a beta driver released on 02/29/16 that was newer than what I already had.  I installed that, but the BSOD behavior still persists.

    Dan Tarbill
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    Wookiee
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 16:02:57 (permalink)
    Does it not name the offending driver at the end of the BOSD

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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 16:22:48 (permalink)
    Wookiee
    Does it not name the offending driver at the end of the BOSD?
     

    nope


    I guess it might be instructive to find the dump file that the system creates and see if I can decode it.

    Dan Tarbill
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    Wookiee
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 16:27:23 (permalink)
    Possibly, I know there are some tools out there that can read and give meaningful information but I have know idea which ones are the best been a long while since I had to deal with BSOD and dump files.

    Is you MoBo bios up to date?

    Furry paws crossed you find a solution soon.

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    azslow3
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 17:52:31 (permalink)
    Try to temporary switch Sonar into WDM mode and/or on another interface (internal). That can exclude audio driver from possible problems (or confirm that is the problem...).

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    Brando
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 18:10:46 (permalink)
    dantarbill
    Wookiee
    Does it not name the offending driver at the end of the BOSD?

    nope


    I guess it might be instructive to find the dump file that the system creates and see if I can decode it.

    Try this https://www.nirsoft.net/u.ls/blue_screen_view.html

    Brando
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    msmcleod
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/27 18:11:12 (permalink)
    If you've got JBridge installed, you could try enabling the "Load using JBridge wrapper" by going into Cakewalk Plugin Manager, clicking on AAS (the VST2 version) and clicking the Plugin Properties button.
     
    When loading via JBridge, there's a settings button that has a bunch of options that can you can tweak. I've found JBridge can help with dropouts and GUI issues with certain plugins.
     
    M.
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    abacab
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/03/28 00:29:49 (permalink)
    I agree with azslow and 35mm.  Hardware and drivers are the usual culprits for BSOD.
     
    +1 for BlueScreenView from NirSoft that Brando suggested for viewing BSOD mini dumps.  This can often point you towards an offending driver.

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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/22 01:26:45 (permalink)
    I managed to narrow down the likely culprit.  It appears to be related to the ancient ASIO driver for my M-Audio Firewire 1814 interface (running version 5.10.0.5058).  When I run in WASPI mode, the AAS stuff doesn't blow up the system (but then I have to run at at least 12 ms latency in order to get smooth audio).
    Also...
    • Set system to WASPI
    • Instantiate a recent AAS synth (like Ultra Analog VA-2) in a project
    • Verify that it works
    • Close the project without saving it.
    • Reopen the project (still with no AAS plug).
    • Change the driver mode to ASIO
    • Click on Apply
    • Gets the same BSOD
    It appears that the AAS plug has left the system in a state that pisses off the driver, even though the AAS code is no longer running.

    Dan Tarbill
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    paulo
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/22 10:19:52 (permalink)
    I have all the AAS instruments but on win7 OS so I can't offer any insight into your issue other than to say that I am not experiencing any problems at all on that system. FWIW though, I have always found AAS support/customer service to be among the best, so if there is a significant delay in getting back to you I would say based on my experience that is unusual, so it might be worth checking that something hasn't gone wrong in the communication process. (IE did they get your message in the first place / did they already reply and you didn't get it for some reason?)
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    azslow3
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/22 18:15:21 (permalink)
    I have indtalled VA-2 trial (2.1.0) and can instantiate it as VST3 without problem.
     
    Since I use FW Audiophile, I guess that is the same driver as 1814.
     
    I periodically get BSOD from this interface. When it is chained with 410 I get BSODs regularly. But when it is alone, I have no reproducible problems, just 1-2 crashes per week, sometime in DAW, sometime in games... Note that I was choosing FW cards carefully (PCI before, PCIe now).
     
    As you can see in my signature, I have finally decided to buy "real" audio interface. And while I am just a home player, I think it was worse the money... Also after combining it with "real" DAW, I have stop wondering how people can use DAWs on stage.. But I still have audiophile connected all the time, periodically start Sonar and use "real" staff when needed only. 

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/22 18:47:21 (permalink)
    dantarbill
    I managed to narrow down the likely culprit.  It appears to be related to the ancient ASIO driver for my M-Audio Firewire 1814 interface (running version 5.10.0.5058).  When I run in WASPI mode, the AAS stuff doesn't blow up the system (but then I have to run at at least 12 ms latency in order to get smooth audio).
    Also...
    • Set system to WASPI
    • Instantiate a recent AAS synth (like Ultra Analog VA-2) in a project
    • Verify that it works
    • Close the project without saving it.
    • Reopen the project (still with no AAS plug).
    • Change the driver mode to ASIO
    • Click on Apply
    • Gets the same BSOD
    It appears that the AAS plug has left the system in a state that pisses off the driver, even though the AAS code is no longer running.




    That makes sense. ASIO runs in user mode and is susceptible to heap corruption or any other bad things that happen inside the app. If the plugin is corrupting memory in the right place it can conceivably indirectly cause a BSOD in the driver. Or it might not be related at all to the plugin if there is a bug in the driver.

    Noel Borthwick
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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/23 01:07:10 (permalink)
    paulo
    ...FWIW though, I have always found AAS support/customer service to be among the best, so if there is a significant delay in getting back to you I would say based on my experience that is unusual, so it might be worth checking that something hasn't gone wrong in the communication process. (IE did they get your message in the first place / did they already reply and you didn't get it for some reason?)


    I eventually called them directly and got an instant response.  So far, I'm the only one reporting the problem.  I've also forwarded them the post I did here yesterday (04/21/18).


    There are some other tests that I might try here...which would include running the same M-Audio interface on a Win10 laptop and a slightly older version of SPlat (2017.06).

    Dan Tarbill
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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/25 17:56:31 (permalink)
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    dantarbill
    <stuff>



    That makes sense. ASIO runs in user mode and is susceptible to heap corruption or any other bad things that happen inside the app. If the plugin is corrupting memory in the right place it can conceivably indirectly cause a BSOD in the driver. Or it might not be related at all to the plugin if there is a bug in the driver.


    I tried running the same M-Audio Firewire interface (with ASIO) on a laptop with a different OS build (Win10 Pro 1607 vs 1709) and older version of SPlat (2017.06 vs 2017.10).  All the AAS stuff works fine there.
     
    I realize that there are a bunch of differences in the two scenarios besides the SPlat and Windows versions.  One is the fact that the firewire interface is on an ExpressCard plugged into the laptop as opposed to one built into the motherboard.  But humor me here...
     
    Were there any audio engine or VST implementation differences between 2017.06 and 2017.10?

    Dan Tarbill
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    dantarbill
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    Re: AAS plug in SPlat causes BSOD... 2018/04/26 18:49:37 (permalink)
    Ok...there's more information.
     
    The failure appears to be project specific.  More to the point...it may have to do with the project template that the project was started with.
     
    I have a legacy project that had its genesis at least before 2008.  Pulling in new AAS synths in that project have no problems.  Another project from last year that was likely started with "4 Track Audio.cwt" crashed when I instantiated a new AAS synth...but it only crashed SONAR.  It didn't do a BSOD on the whole machine.
     
    The project that did the BSOD was from a "kitchen sink" template that I put together that includes AD2 with a full fan out of individual tracks for each kit piece as well as tracks and folders for guitar, bass, vocals and keys with Rapture Pro.

    Dan Tarbill
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