Helpful ReplyAD2 Setting & Docs question...

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Musikman
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2017/04/18 22:39:51 (permalink)

AD2 Setting & Docs question...

Hi,
I'm probably missing some simple solution here.....In AD2 you can change the way each drum is struck..ie for the snare......rim shot, sticks, open snare hit, etc....
 
What I'm not figuring out is how to save that setting that I choose for that drum. There is a row of "play" buttons to hear what each type of hit sounds like on the browser page, but how can I save the strike setting I choose for that drum? As the kit is playing I'm hearing the different types of hits when I click one of those play buttons with my mouse, but I can't seem to permanently incorporate it into the demo loop that is running for that kit so that it stays. Watched a couple videos that show you have options to change the hit type, but doesn't show how to save in the video.
 
Btw...
**Is there an actual pdf manual for AD2?  I've found several of the other instrument manuals, but nothing for AD2. 
**Also not able to find a pdf manual for Melodyne 4, only found an "Introduction Manual", not a full manual.
 
Any help appreciated, thanks!
 
MM
post edited by Musikman - 2017/04/25 20:04:28

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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/19 10:04:58 (permalink)
Just FYI, this section is for Cakewalk instruments like z3ta+ and rapture etc. You'll have better luck posting this in the software forum. If you want manuals i would check with the actual companies that make the products your looking at (ie. XLN Audio and Celemony)

I think with the hits you need to realize that the different hits correspond to different midi notes. If you drag the patterns from AD to sonar and open the clip you'll see all the snares (for example) aren't on the same midi note. What you're clicking on shows the different sounds available for that specific kit-piece but unless they are already in the pattern you've selected, you're just testing what is possibly available.

Hopefully that helps.

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/19 14:14:22 (permalink)
The AD2 manual is in C:\ProgramData\XLN Audio\Addictive Drums 2\App\ADBV0002\Manuals. Fortunately there is a link to the manual under the ? in the upper right in the AD2 UI. On that menu is found the Map Window to modify the key map used by AD2 and a document about the AD2 key map. As mentioned above, the key map defines which MIDI note triggers what instrument and how it is played.
 
Celemony only provides web-based help for Melodyne
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/19 22:12:24 (permalink)
Ok thanks guys, I appreciate the info. I'm still getting my feet wet with Platinum, so I've been trying to take one area of the program at a time and figure out what looks unfamiliar to me. I missed a lot upgrading to Platinum from Producer 8.5!
 
Thanks scook, I didn't think to look in the ProgramData folder, as I found a lot of other manuals elsewhere, and all over the place. I've been trying to copy them all into one folder as I find them to make things easier when I'm looking for information. When I was auditioning one of the drum sets and trying all the different ways the snare drum can be struck, I just wasn't sure how to lock in my choice of how I wanted the drum to be struck. I'll have to look more at how the drum maps work. I think I had run across a video about it on YouTube, maybe a good place to start.

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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/20 22:39:58 (permalink)
Musikman
Hi,
I'm probably missing some simple solution here.....In AD2 you can change the way each drum is struck..ie for the snare......rim shot, sticks, open snare hit, etc....
 
What I'm not figuring out is how to save that setting that I choose for that drum. There is a row of "play" buttons to hear what each type of hit sounds like on the browser page, but how can I save the strike setting I choose for that drum? As the kit is playing I'm hearing the different types of his when I click one of those play buttons with my mouse, but I can't seem to permanently incorporate it into the demo loop that is running for that kit so that it stays. Watched a couple videos that show you have options to change the hit type, but doesn't show how to save in the video.
 
Btw...
**Is there an actual pdf manual for AD2?  I've found several of the other instrument manuals, but nothing for AD2. 
**Also not able to find a pdf manual for Melodyne 4, only found an "Introduction Manual", not a full manual.
 
Any help appreciated, thanks!
 
MM




The instructions in this Knowledge Base article are very useful.  Take full control of Addictive Drums in your project!
 
Cakewalk has provided a drum map, a project template, and a track template for AD2 that has made AD2 my go to drum synth now.
 
Setting up a Drum Map for Addictive Drums 2 in SONAR
https://www.cakewalk.com/...ctive-Drums-2-in-SONAR

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-06; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2; CA-2A  Other: Iris 2; SynthMaster; Syntronik; SampleTank 3; AIR AIEP 3; Ignite; SONiVOX, VocalizerPro; BIAB; Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1607 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire (TI)  Audio: M-Audio FW-410 ASIO;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Axiom; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Midisport; Mackie 1202
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/21 22:36:10 (permalink)
Thanks abacab, I'll check out the article, and I think the video I mentioned also is mostly based on how to set up the drum map as well.  It's a little bit of a learning curve to work with the map, I'm more of an audio guy rather than midi, but seems it would be worth the time in this case.  Over the years I mostly used regular ready-made drum loops to build my drum tracks, it just seemed quicker to me. So I never really dug too deep into Session Drummer that came with Sonar, I would just use it for single hits or to create fills if I couldn't find one in my loops library. I'm not a drummer, my primary instrument is keyboards, and secondary is guitar, but I am particular to having my drum tracks sound good, so I'll definitely need to get to know AD2 in more depth. It does seem like a pretty versatile program, and the sounds are top notch.

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/22 00:22:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/04/22 00:41:49
I would HIGHLY recommend the link that abacab posted. It does all the work of drum mapping for you.

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/22 00:55:28 (permalink)
Musikman
Thanks abacab, I'll check out the article, and I think the video I mentioned also is mostly based on how to set up the drum map as well.  It's a little bit of a learning curve to work with the map, I'm more of an audio guy rather than midi, but seems it would be worth the time in this case.  Over the years I mostly used regular ready-made drum loops to build my drum tracks, it just seemed quicker to me. So I never really dug too deep into Session Drummer that came with Sonar, I would just use it for single hits or to create fills if I couldn't find one in my loops library. I'm not a drummer, my primary instrument is keyboards, and secondary is guitar, but I am particular to having my drum tracks sound good, so I'll definitely need to get to know AD2 in more depth. It does seem like a pretty versatile program, and the sounds are top notch.




I am not a drummer either.  I have found that auditioning ready made drum loops the old way to become tedious and uninspiring.  I have used Acid and Ableton Live previously, but they never really clicked for me.
 
I think the secret sauce for a program like Addictive Drums, is that the MIDI drum patterns were recorded by real drummers, so there is a human feel to them.  You can drag them into your Sonar tracks and edit as you wish.  Coupled with the top notch sounds of the available kits, this is pure drum awesomeness!
 
The control offered by the AD2 drum map and track template gives you complete control over each kit piece in your Sonar mix, so you can mix the drums in your DAW, rather than the plugin. One MIDI track and 14 audio tracks.  Most of the individual pieces are mono tracks, with the Master, Overhead, Room, and Bus in stereo.  Mix and match!
 
Next best thing to real drums and mics!

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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/22 01:26:15 (permalink)
This is a good overview of the AD2 plugin itself:
 

 
And this is a good overview of the setup in Sonar for AD2 multi outputs, starting at about the 9:00 minute mark:
 

 

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/22 21:41:40 (permalink)
Thanks abacab, much appreciated.  I'll be checking these out. :-)

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/23 22:19:27 (permalink)
Hey abacab, I've gone through the steps of downloading the zip file and have copied/pasted the three files ok. Then reading on through the steps of "Using these files in practice" I got the project opened with the 15 tracks loaded ok, but not sure if I'm getting steps 5 & 6 exactly right ....
 
5. Be sure that the output of the associated MIDI Track is set to DM1.....and....
6. If necessary, go to Edit > Preferences > MIDI | Drum Map Manager and load the “AD2 Standard” map preset to DM1
 
What do they mean by "the associated MIDI track"? .... I assume they mean I need to check the output settings of one of the 15 tracks. I looked in the output of Track 15 and for choices I see "1-Addictive Drums 2 1" and "2-DM-1-AD2 Standard", is Track 15 the track I need to select, and is it "2-DM-1-AD2 Standard" the setting I need to change to? 
 
Also, is that the only track I need to change the output on? Seems right to me, but if I'm getting this wrong, could you please explain when you get a minute, no hurry, thanks!

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/23 23:23:20 (permalink)
OK, sounds like you got the hard part done!  The rest is all downhill ...
 
There's two ways to get started.
 
1. Start with the project template.  Set Track 15 to "Output = 2-DM1-AD2 Standard".
2. Start with a new blank project (or an existing project), then "Insert > Track Template > Soft Synth Track Templates  > AD2 > AD2 Track.cwx".
 
If you use option #2, your drum map will be pre-selected, so all ready to go! 

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/24 22:10:46 (permalink)
Ok thanks, I like downhill!  So it seems I did pretty much have it right then, I just need to select Track 15 Output to= "2-DM1-AD2 Standard." I actually did use option 2, but the drum map wasn't automatically selected, track 15 output was set to "4-", so I had to manually change it to "2-DM1-AD2".
 
Now I just have to figure out the best way to begin adding drums to the tracks!  Let's see....the way that seems to be the easiest to get started is to go to the "Beats" tab in AD2 and find a beat, then drag it to track 15 in the track view. Once I've dropped a beat loop into midi track 15, all the individual drums are automatically separated and placed into the other mono tracks specific to each drum in the kit, right?  Then I can use the drum map in the Piano Roll View to change the way the drums are struck (ie..rim shot, open hit, etc..) by moving the midi notes in the Piano Roll, correct?
 
There must be a way to change/move ALL the snare notes in that beat all at the same time, or do I have to move each one individually one at a time? 

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/24 22:18:11 (permalink)
Lasso select to move them all

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/24 22:41:10 (permalink)
Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate your following through on this thread with me.   I think I'm getting the concept now that I've dragged a beat into the midi track to test thing out. I can see the beat in the drum map and all the individual midi notes for the different drums. I actually got lucky and didn't have to Lasso them to select them all, I tried just clicking on the name of the drum in the left column of the D map and they all highlighted, so I guess there are a couple of ways to get that done.
 
Do you usually just drop in the beats, or do you input your drums differently? I'm wondering what would happen if I tried to use my old audio drum loops. They're wav files, so I couldn't drop them into the midi track 15, there must be a way that Sonar can convert my audio loops into midi notes so I can edit in a drum map. But I guess I'll tackle that one later! lol  I have enough to learn for now. 

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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 00:33:36 (permalink)
Musikman
Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate your following through on this thread with me.   I think I'm getting the concept now that I've dragged a beat into the midi track to test thing out. I can see the beat in the drum map and all the individual midi notes for the different drums. I actually got lucky and didn't have to Lasso them to select them all, I tried just clicking on the name of the drum in the left column of the D map and they all highlighted, so I guess there are a couple of ways to get that done.
 
Do you usually just drop in the beats, or do you input your drums differently? I'm wondering what would happen if I tried to use my old audio drum loops. They're wav files, so I couldn't drop them into the midi track 15, there must be a way that Sonar can convert my audio loops into midi notes so I can edit in a drum map. But I guess I'll tackle that one later! lol  I have enough to learn for now. 



Good to hear of your progress!
 
But AD2 is based on MIDI drum loops.  If you choose to use audio loops, you are on your own!

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Musikman
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 15:01:37 (permalink)
Thanks!
 
Yes I know it's midi based, but I thought I had read somewhere or have seen on one of the videos where audio can be analyzed so that it can be edited similar to midi. Not sure which part of Sonar does it, I could be mistaken too.
 
 
post edited by Musikman - 2017/04/25 19:51:50

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 19:16:54 (permalink)
Musikman
Thanks!
 
Yes I know it's midi based, but I thought I had read somewhere or have seen on one of the videos where audio can be analyzed so that it can be edited similar to midi. Not sure which part of Sonar does it, I could be mistaken too.




Platinum comes with Melodyne essential, that can translate monophonic audio into MIDI notes.  It is actually designed to work with vocals, but some success could be had with a solo bassline for example (see video below).
 
But success can be a hit or miss, depending on how clean your source material is.  Never tried with drums!
 
For polyphonic instruments you need the paid upgrade to the full Melodyne.
 
You can also match the tempo of an imported audio file.  You just drag an audio clip up to the Sonar timeline to generate a tempo map for the project that may capture the groove from your imported audio file that your MIDI track data can follow, or snap to.  The tempo trick is performed without even opening Melodyne, because it accesses the Melodyne ARA integration to do its thing.
 
If you have more specific questions about converting audio to MIDI, you will probably want to start a new topic about that so your question will be more visible.  Good luck!
 
How to convert audio into midi using melodyne (Sonar platinum)


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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 19:20:12 (permalink)
How To Create Easy Tempo Maps in SONAR with Melodyne 4
 

 

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 20:03:24 (permalink)
Yes thanks for that, that was the same video I had seen, it was using Melodyne.  Melodyne has similar functions to AutoTune in some ways, only Melodyne seems to have a lot more versatility to go beyond just vocal pitch correction.  I am scheduled to learn more about it soon, so I will start a new thread when I do. 
 
I added these 2 AD2 questions to my last post and didn't realize you were posting at the same time, so I moved it here:.....
 
1 - Using this AD2 track template, what is the best way to convert my MIDI drum clip (or track) done in AD2 over to audio? If I choose to either "freeze" or "bounce to clips/track", will I get only one audio clip/track mix, or a separate audio clip/track for every individual drum? Do I have the option to control and choose the result I want? EDIT: Tried and I can't use the bounce option because it's MIDI, and tried the Freeze option but it does process to audio for every individual drum track, so I have to figure a way if I only want one audio clip mix of all the drums. I can freeze all the tracks then bounce, but that seems to be an unnecessary extra step. Any thought on this?
 
2 - What happens if my drum track grows beyond the template, ie...if tracks 2-14 are all taken and I wanted to add in an additional single drum hit, say either to color the existing beat, or maybe add a second kick drum to beef it up a little, would I need to insert another instance of AD2 separately to do that, or is there another way? I know I can do it the old way with audio loops, but how would I do it within this template using AD2? Thanks
 
 
 

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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 20:52:22 (permalink)
Musikman
Yes thanks for that, that was the same video I had seen, it was using Melodyne.  Melodyne has similar functions to AutoTune in some ways, only Melodyne seems to have a lot more versatility to go beyond just vocal pitch correction.  I am scheduled to learn more about it soon, so I will start a new thread when I do. 
 
I added these 2 AD2 questions to my last post and didn't realize you were posting at the same time, so I moved it here:.....
 
1 - Using this AD2 track template, what is the best way to convert my MIDI drum clip (or track) done in AD2 over to audio? If I choose to either "freeze" or "bounce to clips/track", will I get only one audio clip/track mix, or a separate audio clip/track for every individual drum? Do I have the option to control and choose the result I want? EDIT: Tried and I can't use the bounce option because it's MIDI, and tried the Freeze option but it does process to audio for every individual drum track, so I have to figure a way if I only want one audio clip mix of all the drums. I can freeze all the tracks then bounce, but that seems to be an unnecessary extra step. Any thought on this?
 
2 - What happens if my drum track grows beyond the template, ie...if tracks 2-14 are all taken and I wanted to add in an additional single drum hit, say either to color the existing beat, or maybe add a second kick drum to beef it up a little, would I need to insert another instance of AD2 separately to do that, or is there another way? I know I can do it the old way with audio loops, but how would I do it within this template using AD2? Thanks
 



1. Just arm the tracks that you want to record, then hit record!  The MIDI track will trigger the kit pieces with every note event in the MIDI clip.  As the MIDI file plays back, the audio waveforms will be written into their respective audio tracks.
 
2. Never ran into that, but maybe I am just a minimalist.  You have 10 direct audio tracks to work with, plus the overhead and room mics that cover everything.  The stereo AD2 master has a AD2 based stereo mix that you may not need if you are mixing the tracks as audio in the DAW.  Same goes for the Bus track. 
 
If you look at the AD2 kit page, you will see 18 slots to work with.  Only 10 of those have direct outs.  Maybe you can get what you need using the overhead and room mics.
 
Otherwise you could build a monster drum kit with a 2nd instance of AD2!!! 
 
Have fun!

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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/25 20:55:08 (permalink)
Be careful though, or you may end up with a drummer that sprouts 3 arms and 3 legs!
 

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Musikman
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/26 22:25:09 (permalink)
Lol, I used to work with a drummer that was so talented it sounded like he had 3 arms and legs sometimes!
 
Ok, I see, that worked, thanks! So it looks like if I just want to convert the entire beat from midi to audio using all the drums in the kit, a quick way would just be to turn on "record" in the stereo bus track (14), or the AD2 Master track (1).  Alternatively I can just do the same with any of the individual drum tracks to get separate audio for each. 

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#23
abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/26 22:58:53 (permalink)
Musikman
 
Alternatively I can just do the same with any of the individual drum tracks to get separate audio for each. 




I believe the advantage to recording the audio separately for each piece is that you can record the kit dry, and then process each track as audio in Platinum using your favorite FX plugins on each track, as well as change levels and panning at any time down the road.  Like an engineer would do with a real drum kit!
 
So the easy way out is to mix the drums in AD2, then just send out the audio mix for recording as the AD2 stereo mix in a single stereo audio track in Sonar.  But you do lose the flexibility that way. 
 
Always great to have options! 

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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/26 23:07:34 (permalink)
Take a look at this guy's drum dilemma!  If you read the suggestions that follow, you realize that it could be somewhat like unscrambling an egg ... much easier to separate from the start!
 
"We recently did a performance and the sound engineer combined the drum tracks (Kick, Snare, Toms, Overhead) into a single audio track.  I'd like to be able to use AD2 to attempt to separate the kit into their appropriate audio track using a combination of EQ and AD2. Is that even possible?  Unfortunately I can only work with what I have.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated."  http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3596108
 
 

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Musikman
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/27 22:12:57 (permalink)
Wow, I see what you mean! I'll be sure to note that for future reference, thanks! Even though I've mostly used loops in the past, I have kept any fills and single hits on separate tracks for better processing. Most of the loops I've used are separated into sections...ie...chorus, verse, bridge..etc...so they're not always using the full kit on all the loops. That leaves me a little open space to add drums as needed.
 
post edited by Musikman - 2017/04/28 22:18:48

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Musikman
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/28 22:25:14 (permalink)
Just messing around with a beat here....maybe I'm just not used to working with AD2, but looking at the setup in the console view, it seems there are a lot of tracks controlling Volume. There are the individual drum tracks (2-11), the AD2 Master (Trk 1), the Overhead (Trk 12), the Room (Trk 13), the Stereo Bus (Trk 14), the MIDI (Trk 15), all of which are being routed to the Master A channel, and out to my USB Mixer Out.  When I hit play, the beat is coming in hot, clipping the outputs (Master Out and USB Mixer Out). So I guess my question is, with so many ways to balance and control the volume, if I turn all tracks down to 0, what's the best way to set up and stage the volume levels so it's not clipping, and/or over driving the outputs?  It seems when the beat is playing and I was getting clipping, I could lower it to completely off by using the Master Out or USB Mixer Out slider, but I know those should probably be left at unity gain. Using Track 1 (AD2 Master) wouldn't allow me to lower it completely off, it would only lower the volume a little, but still clipping the outputs. Same with Track 14 Stereo Bus. I guess what I'm asking in short, is which sliders do I reach for when a beat loads in hot like that? Thanks!

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abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/29 00:19:01 (permalink)
In general, if you wish to work with the individual AD2 outputs just mute the master and bus tracks.  Then you can work with the individual track outputs, the overhead, and room outputs, to mix the sound you want.
 
Else, reverse it and mute everything except the master or bus to get the drum mix produced from AD2.

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Musikman
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/29 02:16:20 (permalink)
Ok thanks that makes sense, simple! I can't mute the Output Master A when there are also other instruments going there, so I assume you mean to mute the AD2 Master (Trk 1) and ST Bus (Trk 14).

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#29
abacab
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Re: AD2 Setting & Docs question... 2017/04/29 19:47:11 (permalink)
Yup!

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