AM I alone, deflated about xpanded

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ampfixer
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October 06, 11 6:32 PM (permalink)

AM I alone, deflated about xpanded

I don't get it. I've read all the threads and the company adverts but I don't get Xpanded.

It looks like I'm in the minority sticking with plain old X1c producer. What I don't get is this. The 2 things that I find really annoying in X1 are the unpredictable Pro Channel and the clunky effects chain implementation.

Cakewalk fixes most of the issues in these 2 areas but doesn't say it's a fix, they are called new features. I get the feeling they simply weren't ready to go when X1 hit the streets and the best solution for Cake was to scrap them and do a complete rebuild.

There are several reports that EVERYTHING seems to run better and faster in Xpanded, to the point where people that could barely run X1 are claiming that Xpanded is running great. This sounds like a complete update (X1D?).

Why the smoke and mirrors? Why didn't they just say that they were going to rebuild these two modules? I'm feeling stupid and confused. I don't want to buy new features but I do want to own the best most reliable version of what I initially bought, X1 producer.

I don't ... Oh never mind. I'm depressed.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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    jbow
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 7:11 PM (permalink)
    Because they are a business and they need cashflow? They really changed a ot of stuff when they went to X1 and have been up to their arse in alligators while trying to drain the swamp for the better part of a year... I expect some things to be tweaked and improved. I have no idea what may come with X2 but I expect there will be another fix or two if they are needed before X2 and I expect X2 is going to really be step two in the direction they are taking Sonar and... I think it will address a lot of things. I expect it to be really something... but since they are not going to soon release X2, they have to have cashflow and really the price isn't much. Take the family to Red Lobster (or not) and you will have spent the money needed to buy the upgrade to Expanded with the Expander/Gate... or 49 buck for just Expanded??
    Don't be bummed. Support them and Sonar is going to get better and better.
     
    Ampfixer, I apoligize if I sounded flippant. After re-reading I realize I didn't really address your post... I just said what I had to say. Man, I am sorry you feel that way. I hope everything is better than it seems to you.
     
    I am just happy, maybe ignrance is bliss but I meant no insult.
    post edited by jbow - October 06, 11 9:09 PM

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    #2
    Jonbouy
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 8:04 PM (permalink)
    I'm completely sick of trying to appraise anything that goes up for offer without having to surf a tirade of insulting garbage from people trying to justify to themselves why they've just spent $80 on a puff of smoke.

    Half of 'em don't even know what it is they actually have (or haven't) got, and fair play they are enjoying themselves I have no problem with that, it's fun to play with new stuff.

    Why I should end up then getting villified by a core of so called peers for not seeing $80 worth after getting clear on what's actually there remains a mystery.

    Still, I have no need to check any of it out now until next release.

    Thank goodness.  I'm off to get my aura cleansed meantime.

    post edited by Jonbouy - October 06, 11 8:18 PM

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #3
    Middleman
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 8:38 PM (permalink)
    Software which is a solution for a problem I don't have. It feels like when my dad used to tell us "Just jump in the car I have a surprise for you". Sometimes it turned out good, sometimes not so much. Hopefully there will be happiness at the end of the road.

    Gear: A bunch of stuff.
    #4
    jbow
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 8:39 PM (permalink)
    I hope you don't think I villified you or anyone else. Your points as as valid as anyone's... IMO... and so are the ones in the OP.
    I just posted what I think is going on... and I have no doubt that you know a lot more than I do about Sonar and the DAW in general, no doubt. I do take exception to being accused of making insulting remarks... if you are talking to me.

    Hope your aura is as shiny as it is pointy.

    J
    post edited by jbow - October 06, 11 8:42 PM

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 9:00 PM (permalink)
    jbow


    I hope you don't think I villified you or anyone else. Your points as as valid as anyone's... IMO... and so are the ones in the OP.
    I just posted what I think is going on... and I have no doubt that you know a lot more than I do about Sonar and the DAW in general, no doubt. I do take exception to being accused of making insulting remarks... if you are talking to me.

    Hope your aura is as shiny as it is pointy.

    J


    I always think you are a polite guy.  And right back atcha with your aura...

    The real nastiness I reported and it got removed.

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #6
    jbow
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 9:13 PM (permalink)
    And right back atcha with your aura...

     
    OK, I just thought I did something wrong but I didn't mean to. Anyway... my aura has almost gone out lately.
     
    Julien

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    trimph1
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 06, 11 9:53 PM (permalink)
    Jonbouy


    jbow


    I hope you don't think I villified you or anyone else. Your points as as valid as anyone's... IMO... and so are the ones in the OP.
    I just posted what I think is going on... and I have no doubt that you know a lot more than I do about Sonar and the DAW in general, no doubt. I do take exception to being accused of making insulting remarks... if you are talking to me.

    Hope your aura is as shiny as it is pointy.

    J


    I always think you are a polite guy.  And right back atcha with your aura...

    The real nastiness I reported and it got removed.

    Was that another upstairs thread?


    Take care Jon....

    The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

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    #8
    mudgel
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 6:42 AM (permalink)
    GAS got the better of me and I bought Expanded along with the PC4k plugin and craig Anderton's video.

    I really thought that Expanded being a smaller focussed package was going to deliver the goods. Unfotunately it has broken a few things and there's already been quite a few bugs reported. The ideas seem so good. Just their implementation doesn't quite work. It was a last try to see if this was the way that quality software might be delivered in the future but I haven't really seen a change.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    #9
    Beagle
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 7:48 AM (permalink)
    Jonbouy


    jbow


    I hope you don't think I villified you or anyone else. Your points as as valid as anyone's... IMO... and so are the ones in the OP.
    I just posted what I think is going on... and I have no doubt that you know a lot more than I do about Sonar and the DAW in general, no doubt. I do take exception to being accused of making insulting remarks... if you are talking to me.

    Hope your aura is as shiny as it is pointy.

    J


    I always think you are a polite guy.  And right back atcha with your aura...

    The real nastiness I reported and it got removed.

    upstairs?  I saw it was getting nastier but didn't check on it in a while.  Mr. T had attacked and left the building for a time the last I looked and I was sure when he returned that the berating would continue.  I'm glad the nastiness got removed.
     
    I did buy Expanded last night, but not the gate/expander.  I don't think I need a gate or an expander.  I rarely use either of those tools.  but the tube sat and the FX chain seemed like it was worth $50 to me.  I know your beef with it and I respect it.  If it's not for you then don't buy it.  I would give that advice to anyone!  I thought for me it looked like something I might like.  we'll see.

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    #10
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 7:52 AM (permalink)
    I sent in the money first thing... I even bought the Gate... and I don't have any personal or practical use for the gate.

    I am hoping that someone at Cakewalk will notice that I never bothered to download such a ridiculously ineffectual upgrade.

    I hope some one at Cakewalk realizes that a business can not actually exist when it seems more effective at alienating legacy existing customers faster than it can assimilate new existing customers.

    The company seems like a ship in search of a captain... and it seems like, in the mean time, some one ran the ship up on a reef so that it doesn't sink out at sea.

    I feel my $79 may buy Cakewalk an extra 3 minutes (or less) before the harsh reality of market economics sinks in.

    I'd like to see Cakewalk and SONAR make it in the long run.

    I feel that the current reliance on transparently bad advertising campaigns and a sub par product roll outs is a very expensive way to achieve success. I can't imagine a company being able to survive long term by relying on fooling enough customers each year to be able to clear the bills.


    I still regard the SONAR X1 family of products as unusable.

    I will continue to use version 8.5 until Cakewalk fixes the things that need to be fixed to bring X1 to parity with it's 2 year old precursor.


    best regards,
    mike




    post edited by mike_mccue - October 07, 11 7:56 AM


    #11
    mudgel
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 8:10 AM (permalink)
    I hear ya Mike. although at least since X1C I've been able to use the software more or less. But stil using 8.5.3 and a heaps of other DAWS.

    I've recently had a change in perspective though so it doesn't matter as much - (read my early retirement thread.)

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    #12
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 8:27 AM (permalink)

    X1 is stable here... I just can't enjoy my day while encountering the compromises.


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    Jonbouy
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 11:27 AM (permalink)

    The company seems like a ship in search of a captain...


    I'd be more re-assured if it merely looked like needing captain was important.  The ratings are maiking out like they are making good progress on a calm sea without one.

    Still, many of the passengers are still apparently enjoying the sundeck and still ordering snacks from the restaurant and don't want to be disturbed.

    I'm thinking of slipping off in the night on one of the liferafts before the unseen iceberg hits
    post edited by Jonbouy - October 07, 11 11:41 AM

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    SeveredVesper
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 11:34 AM (permalink)
    Because it's time to change to Cu-!

    Just kidding.

    BTW I miss Sonitus

    Check out my band's song on YouTube!

    #15
    Danny Danzi
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 12:26 AM (permalink)
    I'm totally with you guys on this one. I definitely will no longer buy into the hype...this last release was the damper for me. And to see modules come out when we still have things that need to be fixed or added to the core program....well, it's a bit disheartening to be honest. I also find it a bit ludicrous to pay for something like this Expand thing when it's nearly the price of an upgrade. I'm seriously beginning to think loyalty means nothing in today's times. Jon, I think I'll join you on that liefraft trip my friend as I've probably worn out my welcome here anyway.

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    #16
    maximumpower
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 12:57 AM (permalink)
    Wore out your welcome? Not by a long shot! Whenever someone has needed help, you guys jump right in with accurate and insightful posts. This forum is very good because of people like you. You have most definitely not worn out your welcome.

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    tom1
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:08 PM (permalink)
    Jonbouy:
    Still, many of the passengers are still apparently enjoying the sundeck and still ordering snacks from the restaurant and don't want to be disturbed.

    I'm thinking of slipping off in the night on one of the liferafts before the unseen iceberg hits
     
     
    my feelings exactly but not regarding any software

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:14 PM (permalink)
    tom1


    Jonbouy:
    Still, many of the passengers are still apparently enjoying the sundeck and still ordering snacks from the restaurant and don't want to be disturbed.

    I'm thinking of slipping off in the night on one of the liferafts before the unseen iceberg hits


    my feelings exactly but not regarding any software


    Meaning?

    Or is it just another bit of nastines from someone else that thinks somebody should shut-up because you don't agree with them?

    I could post comments aimed at people like that all day long if I thought a different opinion to mine was a reason to feel they weren't entitled to indicate a view.

    I'll indicate where my opinions differ to somebody else but I stop short of personally insulting them.  All I ask for that is the same courtesy in return.

    To be harangued by a bunch of harpies because I dare mention that what was billed and touted as a breakthrough and a new way of doing this actually isn't and the implementation even falls short of what is already out there I just find is a sad indictment on participation here.

    Here's a handy hint FWIW. Looking at why somebody irritates you by what they say can yeild great insights into problems that are yours not theirs.

    post edited by Jonbouy - October 07, 11 1:34 PM

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
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    Starise
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:29 PM (permalink)
     I guess I'm a kind of realist...if the thing works for me I'll use it and if not I'll go somewhere else.

      I think a lot of you have invested a lot of yourselves into Sonar and this is no sin. To me software is an investment in both time and money. Any time you talk about either of those two things peoples ears perk up.

     To me an investment can yield great returns or mediocre returns or no return at all.
     If the return exceeds the investment its a good investment and I'll keep at it. Realistically setbacks in a software program are expected and reviews and opinions are always based on who is using it and how they are using it.
     One of the so-called statistics someone had yesterday was that for most DAW software users,the software does 80% of what they want it to do. I guess they make the other 20% up with other software.
      Part of this is also how we see our relationship with a company. I think I see people frustrated with the expectation they have from a company to do a certain thing the way they wanted to see it done. Only maybe the company had a different strategy.
     From reading the responses upstairs to the changes it would appear that they were mostly positive ones.
     Cakewalk can -
    A. Do nothing to Sonar
    B. Make only updates as necessary to the existing program
    C. Constantly attempt to update and innovate all in one action

     Cakewalk has opted for C. I think that was a very bold move on their part and considering the type of product it is they had to know that they invited a lot of complication into the process. If they are going to both update and innovate they needed to know what direction to take and I'm sure they also considered their future profitablity.

     From reading the posts upstairs, out of 2000 people there seem to be almost 2000 different opinions on what a good copy of Sonar would look like. They can't spread themselves that thin,no way in heck! So they make changes and improvements that they think will cover the most bases. I think that overall they have done a pretty good job of it.

     Look at Avid. Is Avid in trouble? depends on who you talk to. They certainly alienated a lot of users with their steep prices and proprietary hardware/software for the longest time. Then they finally decided to change their direction and allow PT on any interface. They had gotten too big and lazy and were depending on their past innovations to keep working.

     Cakewalk on the other hand,has continued to innovate. Innovation has a cost but the long term payoff is a better product. Nothing in software ever stays the same,things will always be upgrading and changing and Sonar is no different than any other DAW software developer in that regard. Who still wants to go back to WinXP? Even if you still want WinXp nothing  will be compatible with it in another few years.

       I think Cakewalk took some very bold but necessary steps to insure competitve performance and a solid customer base( no I don't work for Cakewalk). I am willing to accept the good with the bad from a leading innovator. If things became unworkable in Sonar for me,I would be checking other software out.

     If Cakewalk only sold to pros they would go bust in no time. I suspect the newbe and semi-pro makes up the largest customer base. .........anyways I'm rambling here. JMO.

     

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    tom1
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:30 PM (permalink)
    Hi Jon:
     
    take it easy.
    All I meant was that is the exact way I feel about this economy.
     
    No nastiness directed at you in the slightest.

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    Old55
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:32 PM (permalink)
    I'm still on 8.5--I'm far from being expanded.

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
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    Jonbouy
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:35 PM (permalink)
    tom1


    Hi Jon:
     
    take it easy.
    All I meant was that is the exact way I feel about this economy.
     
    No nastiness directed at you in the slightest.


    Cool, I guess I'm still feeling touchy about my last foray upstairs.

    For that I apologise.

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #23
    bapu
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:41 PM (permalink)
    Starise


      .........anyways I'm rambling here. JMO.



    No, it's my opinion too that you are rambling*.






















    *And I know from rambling.
    #24
    Starise
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:43 PM (permalink)
     You would be correct IMO.........Laud' I wuz born a ramblin' man

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    #25
    Starise
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:44 PM (permalink)
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best i can..........

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    #26
    bapu
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:45 PM (permalink)
    I'm no loyalist.

    If the whole of The CHB switched to Reaper or Cubase or FL, I'd probably do it too. I see my DAW use (and plugs) as one of compatibility, not loyalty or a one-up-manship race.

    I don't collab (that I know of) with other DAW users but gain, if I did I would probably start using their DAW.

    Probably a thwarted way of thinking, but Whomp! There It Is.
    #27
    Starise
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:47 PM (permalink)
     If Cakewalk went bust,where would you post? We gotsta support em'

    Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
    3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, 
    Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface.
     CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 
     
     www.soundcloud.com/starise
     
     
     
    Twitter @Rodein
     
    #28
    Jonbouy
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:53 PM (permalink)
    Starise


     If Cakewalk went bust,where would you post? We gotsta support em'


    Now that's a horse of a different colour.

    The most important post on the thread IMO.

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #29
    Old55
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    Re:AM I alone, deflated about xpanded October 07, 11 1:57 PM (permalink)
    If Cakewalk went bust,where would you post? We gotsta support em'
    More importantly--where would Bapu be unfunny? Everywhere!

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
    X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
    #30
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