C Hudson
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 18:33:52
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Relooking your numbers, it looks like no tests done on Vista 32. Is that correct?
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jcschild
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 18:54:21
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HI CH,
actually no, Vista 64 with Sonar 32 and Sonar 64 i have a 32 bit Vista box but no where near the spec of my new 9770... i think its an E6600.
didnt mean to confuse
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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soundtweaker
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 19:00:53
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ORIGINAL: jcschild
HI CH,
actually no, Vista 64 with Sonar 32 and Sonar 64 i have a 32 bit Vista box but no where near the spec of my new 9770... i think its an E6600.
didnt mean to confuse
Was this test done with all the default services running all OSes?
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soundtweaker
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 19:19:01
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Lets get this straight. There is no such thing as a better sound. Only a different sound.
There is such a thing as a more accurate sound and thats where higher quality hardware comes into play.
I use Vista 64 because its more futureproof than XP.
Sure there is some bugs to work out but they havent stopped me from making music in any way.
Lifelong Viskateer. Or at least until Windows 7 comes out in 2011.
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gordonrussell76
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 20:49:43
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Hmm I wonder which OS the children in Africa prefer Xp or Vista.
Sorry but lets just add up the man hours (and I include myslef in this, becuase I have made two fairly pointless posts in this thread) that have gone into this thread.
If they had been given as vountered time to charity, and hell not even in Africa but to the poor in our various home countries, dya think that might have been a better use of all our resources?
i am now off to sign up to my local community skill sharing project, maybe I can teach some kids how to record music. I dount any of them will care what OS i am using, but they may get excited by my shiny and very very cool bass guitar :)
Oh to be so blissfully ignorant again.
Have a nice evening everyone, this will be the last broadcast from perspective land.
G
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jlgrimes
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 21:36:09
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Sure Vista sucks especially if you are a system builder but what might actually suck more is that come April 2009 XP will no longer be supported (ie: mianstream or "consumer" meaning no more updates)
No more (free) hotfixes
No more patches.
And if I am not mistaken I think June 30th is the cut-off date to purchase an Xp license. I guess the good thing about this is that April 2009 is more than a year away. There is a good chance the low latency issues will be fixed by then. If not, there are only two options for me: 1. Stay on XP on my current system (I will save money by not purchasing everything and still benefit from lower latency). 2. Go Mac. The latency issue is the big show stopper for me on Vista. On XP I am using 2.9 ms of latency (which sounds pretty much instantaneous to me). Anything higher than that, I can sense the delay. 2.9 ms is a pretty equivalent feel to my hardware keyboards (and even better than some of them). High latency isn't an issue for multitracking and mixing, but High latency is a big issue for softsynth users and people who use their PC's as Live realtime effects processors. I will not upgrade to Vista (32 or 64) until I hear that people are able to get down to 2.9 ms (or better) latency with good performance (no pops and clicks) and without using 3rd party drivers like ASIO4ALL (unless this becomes some widely accepted standard).
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Bert Guy
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 22:14:27
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I have Sonar 7 on a 64 bit machine with XP. It works fine. I'd like to know if there is anything I'm missing by not upgrading to VISTA.
My experience with DAW's is that I need less OS, not more.
Mi dos centavos.
Cheers,
Bert
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soundtweaker
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/30 22:28:19
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ORIGINAL: Bert Guy
I have Sonar 7 on a 64 bit machine with XP. It works fine. I'd like to know if there is anything I'm missing by not upgrading to VISTA.
My experience with DAW's is that I need less OS, not more.
Mi dos centavos.
Cheers,
Bert
Youll be missing Cakewalk support.
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TomG
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/31 04:51:57
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Hi Jim A couple of things:- - looks like someone else over at Asio4A has been testing Sonar and A4A in WaveRT mode - see here for forum details:- http://mtippach.proboards40.com/index.cgi?board=likelynotabugbutthereisaproblem&action=display&thread=1201476491 interesting comments from the A4A author, Michael " ..... The good thing about WaveRT is that it is pretty close to the hardware. Why would you expect ASIO4ALL to introduce additional latency ? .... " Also, I downloaded Centrance 3.7 but it appears to be only for XP ? Anyway, I read the Help file first at it says to " connect the audio-input to the audio-output " to test. Last time I did something like this, it was a continuous-audio-feedback loop ?!?! How do I hook it up to avoid such an audio-continuous feedback loop / blowing out my soound card in/outs [Echo Layla 3G] ? thx again Jim & just ignore all the above cr#p - you are %100 right in your analysis then and now - as good as my results are so far, there is still no stable / working native WaveRT driver avaialble from anyone that makes Vista 24/7 ready for intense ultra-low latency studio / audio work - although fortunately, I really do beleive we are getting very-very-very close - hopefully, Echo will deliver such a driver very soon. take care, tom
post edited by TomG - 2008/01/31 05:12:22
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cmusicmaker
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/31 07:25:02
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ORIGINAL: C Hudson
My point is it really does not matter what anyone thinks so long as you can get your work done. No personal slight intended.
Well said.
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jcschild
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/31 09:22:54
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ORIGINAL: soundtweaker
ORIGINAL: jcschild
HI CH,
actually no, Vista 64 with Sonar 32 and Sonar 64 i have a 32 bit Vista box but no where near the spec of my new 9770... i think its an E6600.
didnt mean to confuse
Was this test done with all the default services running all OSes?
nope all OS' were tweaked for audio.
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Tonmann
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/31 09:48:39
(permalink)
Gosh! And I always thought the OS' are optimized to display porn pics! 
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soundtweaker
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/01/31 18:33:33
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most porn you dont wanna see optimized.
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Wasapi
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/02/26 11:39:23
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and let me add to Jims post with the facts
and FYI this test is downloadable on my site for validation by anyone.
same exact system for all tests
ADK Sonar test
XP Pro
QX 9770, 3.4Ghz, 4GB, X38
(Scott's machine)
1024 - 16%
768 - 16%
512 - 20%
256 - 20%
128 - 24%
96 - 29%
64 - 38%
48 - 43% (extremely slight pops in audio)
VISTA64 NUMBERS using SONAR 7.02
SONAR 32 BIT
1024 - 18%
768 - 16%
512 - 18%
256 - 22%
128 - 29%
64 - 42%
48 - 52% pops
SONAR 64 BIT
1024 - 21%
768 - 25%
512 - 26%
256 - 37%
128 - 56% - light pops
64 - 94% - pops, glitches, bad
48 - no way
_____________________________
Scott
ADK
Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW! Hello, The results are wrong if you use WDM/KS - ASIO compatible drivers under Vista and not a native WaveRT audiocard. If you use a WDM unified drivers XP/vista, Vista is under Xp because you use a old Drivers model. So Wait for a proper WaveRT drivers from ECHOaudio. I should say that Djdecks perform better with my DJ decks software under Vista and Echo native WaveRT drivers than under XP usind old WDM drivers. And i can run "Centrance" under Vista X64. (just run as administrator) So let's .... I find that Echo is a very serious compagny and the only one that make native WaveRT drivers, and not a bad WDM drivers just compatible with Vista (not a Vista drivers) WaveRT is a nice technology, but Cakewalk have to fix quickly theirs WaveRt issue with Microsoft and Echo. Because WaveRt work already with others host software. The performance on Vista is just a matter of drivers that are only compatible ( In fact, WDM/KS - ASIO for XP drivers - that can be runned under Vista) To you have to use a card that have old WDm drivers for XP and native WaveRT drivers. It's the only way to compare in the same computer. And run the test under SP1 :) Best Olivier
post edited by Wasapi - 2008/02/26 11:43:45
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Wasapi
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/02/26 16:00:23
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Here about Vista Sp1 and Audio : http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=492 I'mrunning a Vista x64 Sp1 system and i'm quite happy
Fixing Vista audio
Vista audio is definitely improving. SP1, improved WaveRT drivers for on-board sound, decent drivers for add-on cards, all are happening. It probably will reach the point where it is better than XP in some circumstances, because there are genuine improvements in the audio stack. If you are reading this and get glitches, check that you really have the latest drivers and updates.
64-bit has the potential to be really good, though driver support is dire right now.
It’s still a sorry tale and I suspect has lost Microsoft a lot of momentum in the pro audio world, and also among consumer users like myself who were surprised and disappointed by glitching audio.
Preventable? Ultimately I feel this is a symptom of Vista actually being rushed (despite long delays), thanks to the famous reset. There’s also the question of why the WaveRT API wasn’t done right at an earlier stage, which (if the above analysis is right) could have saved much grief. Finally it seems that the emulation layers are just too inefficient.
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vicsant
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/02/26 22:08:19
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soundtweaker
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RE: *AMAZING* WaveRT results in Vista X32 with Sonar 7
2008/02/27 00:26:16
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ORIGINAL: Wasapi
Here about Vista Sp1 and Audio :
http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=492
I'mrunning a Vista x64 Sp1 system and i'm quite happy
Fixing Vista audio
Vista audio is definitely improving. SP1, improved WaveRT drivers for on-board sound, decent drivers for add-on cards, all are happening. It probably will reach the point where it is better than XP in some circumstances, because there are genuine improvements in the audio stack. If you are reading this and get glitches, check that you really have the latest drivers and updates.
64-bit has the potential to be really good, though driver support is dire right now.
It’s still a sorry tale and I suspect has lost Microsoft a lot of momentum in the pro audio world, and also among consumer users like myself who were surprised and disappointed by glitching audio.
Preventable? Ultimately I feel this is a symptom of Vista actually being rushed (despite long delays), thanks to the famous reset. There’s also the question of why the WaveRT API wasn’t done right at an earlier stage, which (if the above analysis is right) could have saved much grief. Finally it seems that the emulation layers are just too inefficient.
Good article. I liked the myth busting part.
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