ANSWERED: SHS7 - How do you say "Do not send a Ctrl-7 volume event" on midi track??

I'd like to have a midi track where SHS7 does not send an initial ctrl-7 volume event.

I have tons of ProAudio9 projects with midi tracks that do not send an initial volume event.  This is specified by setting the Volume property of the track to -1 (which is displayed as "---").  I have noticed that if I open  a PA9 project with such a specification, SHS7 converts it to volume=127.  Almost never what I want.

Is there a way to specify no initial volume event in SHS7?
And if there is, wouldn't it be nice if SHS7 converted the PA9 convention properly?

--Larry

I'm not familiar with event filters but I'm referring to the initial volume event that is specified as part of the track properties.  If you look at the event list for the track, that volume event is not listed.  It is sent by Sonar (or PA9) as part of initializing the midi channel.  Another example would be the Pan specified as part of the track properties.  The pan midi event is sent but it is not listed as an event in the event list for the track.

Will an event filter filter the initial volume event?  I'd guess not.

--Larry

No, this has nothing to do with sysex messages.  And just to make sure I looked at the sysex view and it is empty.

Some background information:  In SHS7 there is a menu called Tracks.  The Tracks>Properties...  item lists a bunch of things that you can specify including Name, Inputs, Outputs, Channel, Volume, Pan, Patch, etc.  None of the settings you make here create a midi event (or sysex message) that can be seen in the event list or the sysex list.  These properties are part of the track definition (i.e., the track properties).

When SHS7 (or most any other sequencer) starts playing a midi track, it looks at the track properties and dynamically generates the required events and sends them to the synth.

What I'm looking for is a way to specify, in the track properties, that the initial Volume should not be created and sent to the synth when the track starts playing.

Note that SHS7 does allow a value of -1 for Patch to indicate that the initial Patch setting should not be created and sent.  It displays this as "None".

So, I'm looking for the equivalent of "None" for the Volume setting.

--Larry

PS:  There is likely a similar issue with the initial Pan setting but I haven't gone there yet.

I didn't say that PA9 sent a CC7 of "-1" but I guess that might be inferred.   What I'm saying is that setting the Volume property of a midi track to -1 is a special case that tells the sequencer not to send the initial CC7 to set the Volume.  No CC7 is sent until one is encountered in the actual track.

Note that SHS7 does use a Patch number of -1 to indicate that no initial patch change event should be sent.  In that case, SHS7 does not send a Patch Change of -1 to the synth.  It send nothing!

So what do you do if you have various drum instruments on 5 tracks all going to channel 10?
Do you set the desired volume on all 5 tracks?
Do you just set the volume for the last of the 5 tracks and hope that SHS7 sends the initial volume for each track but in top down order so that the 5th track wins?
Does SHS7 guarantee that it will always process the tracks in top down order?  (It might not be guaranteed as part of the user interface but there likely isn't a reason to do them in any other order.)

Well, I guess I've beat this one to death.  Maybe I'll go see how SHS7 handles the initial pan setting for the track!  I'm pretty sure there is no special case that says do not send the pan setting.

--Larry

I just did some tests but they are very inconclusive.  processing order does not seem to follow top to bottom all the time, but I can't find a really solid order either.

there are situations where I can make the volume low on the last one in the top to bottom list and the volume goes low, but there are also times it does not.  I didn't spend enough time to figure out what the priorities are, but they're not necessarily top to bottom.

Greg,
If you put the 5 tracks of drum instruments on different channels, then you would certainly have to specify the desired initial volume on each track.
In my example of 5 tracks all going to channel 10, what I want to do is set 4 tracks to send no initial volume and for one track to send the desired initial value.  That way if I decide to run the drums louder or softer I only have to change the value on the one track.  With SHS7 I would have to specify the same initial volume value on each track which makes changing my mind a bit more difficult.
Maybe you can easily send drums to channels other than 10 with software synths, but many hardware synths are set up for drums on channel 10 ONLY!  There are ways to configure a hardware synth to do drums on channels other than 10, and even on multiple channels at once, but that takes some special fiddling with the synth.  I've done it with my Roland JV-30 but it was a long time ago and I'd have to do research to figure it out again.
--Larry

Hopefully someone from Cakewalk will see this, know the answer and reply.
But if I didn't have the ability to use different channels to a hardware drum synth, I would record each drum track seperately from the drum box to an audio track. Couldn't do that live, though.

I saw where brundlefly answered this for you on the other forum.  that's really good info and I never would have figured that out.