sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
I bought this when it was on sale at Sweetwater ages ago and it's been sitting in the box since then until I got my new monitors and until I could "be bothered" to set it up (thinking it would take me a whole day or something  ) Well I took delivery of my new Equator Audio D5's recently so today I just went for it. Actually I couldn't believe how easy it was to do the measurements, it took about 45 minutes including working out all the positions and marking the points on the floor with tape. I took 14 measurements. I work in a very small area and don't move around much so I figured that would be enough. To be honest, the fact that my DAW isn't in the most ideal position in the room and that I have no room treatment whatsoever had led me to keep my expectations low. I'm certainly not expecting to get some kind of perfect listening environment from it. I'm just sitting here now dragging MP3's into Sonar and listening to them. I cannot believe the difference it's made. Everything is just so much more focused. Everything has so much more air and clarity. But best of all, that BASS! I cannot believe how bad my bass sounded before I inserted ARC2. It was flabby, boomy, smeared, indistinct. Finally I can hear all the detail in the bass guitar and it's perfectly focused on the soundstage in front of me! Just listening to some Steely Dan...oh wow. I remember listening to Gaucho on my dad's friend's "high end" audiophile system with a Linn turntable years and years ago. Everything was just so detailed and crisp. Well today I'm thinking my system sounds even better than that. VERY happy with what this system has done to my listening environment. What an amazing tool!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
DeeringAmps
Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2614
- Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
- Location: Seattle area
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/07 20:16:31
(permalink)
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM  RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
|
sven450
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 945
- Joined: 2004/03/16 08:11:49
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 09:43:39
(permalink)
I have the D5 ARC combo going too, and the one downside is that when I go through my library for reference tracks, half the time I get lost in the music because it sounds so freaking good. I keep getting sucked in to albums that sound like I have never heard them before. There I'll be trying to get something done, and I'm 7 tracks into Nothing Like the Sun, saying, "just one more song, THEN I'll get to work!"
|
gustabo
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2591
- Joined: 2009/01/05 17:32:38
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 10:05:48
(permalink)
Listening to Donald Fagen has been an "ear-opening" experience through my arc'd Adams A7x's...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
|
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2719
- Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 10:35:18
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Starise 2014/06/09 13:26:20
+1
Just remember to bypass the plug each time you export a project (can cause major headaches if you forget and then forget that you forgot).
I use ARC 2 all the time with my little A3Xs (keep the bass extension off unless you really want to see some far-travelling woofers) but leave it off on my Dynaudios as they give a flatter response in the listening position anyway and as a "real-world" reference.
|
gustabo
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2591
- Joined: 2009/01/05 17:32:38
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 10:43:31
(permalink)
SvenArne
Just remember to bypass the plug each time you export a project (can cause major headaches if you forget and then forget that you forgot). It's become second nature for me...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 10:52:05
(permalink)
Yeah I was having a listen to Fagan's "Sunken Condos" album last night. The bass sounds exquisite.....
I accidentally left it on when I switched to the cans earlier. Lesson learned. Incidentally, I wonder if they'll ever come up with something that "corrects" headphones....
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2719
- Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 11:39:21
(permalink)
sharke
I accidentally left it on when I switched to the cans earlier. Lesson learned. Incidentally, I wonder if they'll ever come up with something that "corrects" headphones....
They'd need a foam model of your head with mics in the ears to measure, wouldn't they?
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 11:42:38
(permalink)
SvenArne
sharke
I accidentally left it on when I switched to the cans earlier. Lesson learned. Incidentally, I wonder if they'll ever come up with something that "corrects" headphones....
They'd need a foam model of your head with mics in the ears to measure, wouldn't they?
That's what I'm thinking. Totally doable!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 11:55:59
(permalink)
I'm glad to hear about this as my room is small (until I build I am going to be happy with it!). I have the D5's, too, and so your comments about even them sounding better is very intriguing.
Michael
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 12:05:21
(permalink)
pentimentosound
I'm glad to hear about this as my room is small (until I build I am going to be happy with it!). I have the D5's, too, and so your comments about even them sounding better is very intriguing.
Michael
It really is like night and day as far as I'm concerned! My room appeared to have large spikes at around 50Hz, 150Hz and 400Hz as well as some serious dips around 1.2kHz and 6kHz. Ironing those problems out with ARC has made a hell of a difference to the sound.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 12:36:28
(permalink)
I have ARC #1.... It is sweet. I too forgot to shut it off on exporting my first tune.
As far as ARC'ing headphones.... it's called ROOM correction. And it's purpose is to try to alleviate some of the deficiencies in the room. But, you already know that. Cans, are what they are. I suspect that they could model the various cans and have presets to correct for them though..... seems doable.
I really need to get back to making ARC a habit. I've kind of drifted away from using it. SO..... I should take the time and do another setup, and start back to using it on every song. I guess the reason I stopped using it is that I am very familiar with the overall sound of the room, and the speakers, and just got lazy. Either one, two, or all three.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2719
- Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
- Location: Trondheim, Norway
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 13:04:39
(permalink)
sharke
SvenArne
sharke
I accidentally left it on when I switched to the cans earlier. Lesson learned. Incidentally, I wonder if they'll ever come up with something that "corrects" headphones....
They'd need a foam model of your head with mics in the ears to measure, wouldn't they?
That's what I'm thinking. Totally doable!
Or perhaps they could sell a "can" version of ARC with microphone-equipped earplugs in place of the ARC mic. That would better take into account the physical properties of your head. My DT770 phones have the potential to be ruler flat between 5-30000 Hz with the right corrections! That would be great, and such a plugin would also have the ability to introduce crosstalk/room interaction to simulate real speakers like many apps such as Focusrite's VRM and Toneboosters' ISOne do! Sven
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 13:47:12
(permalink)
Headphone compensation is a much easier task than attempting to correct room acoustics. With headphones, it's all about the deficiencies of the headphones themselves, deficiencies that are not as dynamic as room problems. Consequently, any parametric equalizer can manage it, as long as you have a reliable frequency response curve to advise you. A good resource for that kind of information is headphone.com. It's what enabled me to create this correction for my day-to-day headphones (ATH-M50): 
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 14:27:54
(permalink)
That's a point BF. And I have ATH-M50's as well, so if you don't mind, I think I'll just nab your EQ settings from you right there
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 14:34:22
(permalink)
This is what the link gave me for the ATH-M50's. 
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 14:58:16
(permalink)
Thanks Bitflipper! That is very handy to know about.
@ sharke I would love to get ARC and find out about my room (and the next room, too).
It has moved up the list since this thread started.
Michael
|
clintmartin
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3893
- Joined: 2009/10/11 12:16:43
- Location: Fort Smith, AR
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 19:40:04
(permalink)
I'm a happy ARC2 user and a happy ATH-M50 owner. I'll also be stealing Bit's eq settings!
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 19:49:53
(permalink)
Yeah, I hadn't really ever thought of EQing my phones! So that'll be interesting to try on my ATH M50 and 7506's
Michael
|
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5849
- Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
- Location: Seattle, Wa
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 20:05:35
(permalink)
bitflipper
Headphone compensation is a much easier task than attempting to correct room acoustics. With headphones, it's all about the deficiencies of the headphones themselves, deficiencies that are not as dynamic as room problems. Consequently, any parametric equalizer can manage it, as long as you have a reliable frequency response curve to advise you.
A good resource for that kind of information is headphone.com. It's what enabled me to create this correction for my day-to-day headphones (ATH-M50):
Silly question but is this applied to master bus while mixing or is this something done at the end to compensate? I work with a lot kids who do a lot of mixing on headphones and would like to share this resource. Just want to make sure I am sharing accurate info.
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 21:53:19
(permalink)
Another question for Bit: what is the thinking behind the Q-values for each of the bands?
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 21:54:32
(permalink)
dubdisciple
bitflipper
Headphone compensation is a much easier task than attempting to correct room acoustics. With headphones, it's all about the deficiencies of the headphones themselves, deficiencies that are not as dynamic as room problems. Consequently, any parametric equalizer can manage it, as long as you have a reliable frequency response curve to advise you.
A good resource for that kind of information is headphone.com. It's what enabled me to create this correction for my day-to-day headphones (ATH-M50):
Silly question but is this applied to master bus while mixing or is this something done at the end to compensate? I work with a lot kids who do a lot of mixing on headphones and would like to share this resource. Just want to make sure I am sharing accurate info.
In the absence of bitflipper, might I hazard a guess that it's applied to the master bus while mixing and then taken off before exporting, in exactly the same way as ARC is used.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5849
- Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
- Location: Seattle, Wa
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/08 21:57:09
(permalink)
Sharke..thanks. figured that but thought best to make sure. Going try myself.
|
Karyn
Ma-Ma
- Total Posts : 9200
- Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
- Location: Lincoln, England.
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 07:54:31
(permalink)
sharke
dubdisciple
bitflipper
Headphone compensation is a much easier task than attempting to correct room acoustics. With headphones, it's all about the deficiencies of the headphones themselves, deficiencies that are not as dynamic as room problems. Consequently, any parametric equalizer can manage it, as long as you have a reliable frequency response curve to advise you.
A good resource for that kind of information is headphone.com. It's what enabled me to create this correction for my day-to-day headphones (ATH-M50):
Silly question but is this applied to master bus while mixing or is this something done at the end to compensate? I work with a lot kids who do a lot of mixing on headphones and would like to share this resource. Just want to make sure I am sharing accurate info.
In the absence of bitflipper, might I hazard a guess that it's applied to the master bus while mixing and then taken off before exporting, in exactly the same way as ARC is used.
It depends on how your headphones are connected. If you have the luxury of multiple outputs on your audio interface (mine has 26) you can set up a "Mastering" headphone output. 1) create a bus called "Master Phones" and route the output to a stereo pair of your choice, preferably one with a headphone amp connected. 2) add eq to the bus FX bin to flatten the phones response. 3) add a limiter to the buss FX bin to protect your ears from overs... 4) add a post send to the Master bus routed to the Master Phones bus. An additional tip.. Create a bus for your monitors, route the output to your monitors the way you'd usually route the Master bus. Place ARC in the monitor bus FX bin, route the Master bus output to the monitor bus. You can now do all your exporting from the Master without having to remember to bypass arc.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
|
DeeringAmps
Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2614
- Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
- Location: Seattle area
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 08:46:50
(permalink)
Karyn has it right.
I have my MASTER buss output to the ARC buss which is routed to my monitors.
Always route bounced mixes or exports from the MASTER.
Also a "send" on the MASTER outputs to the headphone amp.
I'll now route that send to a "phones" buss or multiple sends and busses when using more that one set of cans...
Tom
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
|
Grem
Max Output Level: -19.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5562
- Joined: 2005/06/28 09:26:32
- Location: Baton Rouge Area
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 09:03:39
(permalink)
Karyn, great ideas! Thanks.
Grem
Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 10:51:57
(permalink)
A separate bus for headphones is the way to go, as Karyn and Tom suggested. You just add a pre-fader Send to the master bus and route it to a separate bus that just drives headphones.
This'll work well for the mixing and editing stage, before any effects have been added to the master bus. The best part is you don't have to remember to disable the EQ when switching to speakers or when exporting. And for you ARC users you don't have to worry about accidentally applying ARC correction in the headphones.
When you get to the mastering stage, just drag the EQ up to the master bus so you can hear effects that have been inserted there. Headphones for mastering? Yes, I do like to listen to the headphones while mastering. They are my secondary reference.
As for how I arrived at that EQ, it was primarily informed by the curves from headphone.com and then tweaked by ear. It doesn't have to be all that scientific, really.
But now that you've asked the question, you've prompted me to think about how I did arrive at those bandwidths (it was a couple years ago). It appears that my filters are narrower than the calculations might suggest they should be (4 versus about 3). I'm guessing I adjusted them until the valley between the two peaks was at the right level. The alternative would have been using three even narrower filters.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5849
- Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
- Location: Seattle, Wa
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 13:20:59
(permalink)
Thank you all for the tips.
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 13:58:30
(permalink)
Glad it works for you! If you think that's great wait until they come out with ARC3...
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
dmbaer
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2585
- Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
- Location: Concord CA
- Status: offline
Re: ARC2 - wow, what a difference!
2014/06/09 17:50:06
(permalink)
DeeringAmps
Karyn has it right.
I have my MASTER buss output to the ARC buss which is routed to my monitors.
Always route bounced mixes or exports from the MASTER.
Also a "send" on the MASTER outputs to the headphone amp.
I'll now route that send to a "phones" buss or multiple sends and busses when using more that one set of cans...
FWIW, Cubase users can make excellent use of the Control Room for this sort of thing. I spent part of an afternoon setting it up (starting with zero control room experience and not all that much Cubase experience). I have ARC on the speaker channel, along with Magic AB and a "default" reverb with a moderate hall setting. I have a headphone channel that goes to a VRM box (and never accidentally has ARC active for that output). There is zero chance of forgetting to disable ARC for an export, although I do need to remember to bypass the speaker channel verb when I add full-mix verb, something that only will happen late in the game. The only mystery was the metronome tick. It was audible on the phones, but not the speakers (maybe that makes some kind of logical sense, but it was an obstacle). Turns out I had to mess around with a cue send channel (don't recall the exact details of the solution), but I did mange to get that sorted out as well. All in all, a very happy camper with this approach.
|