Helpful ReplyASIO USB Audio Driver?

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mcdonalk
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2017/03/10 00:31:44 (permalink)

ASIO USB Audio Driver?

Can anyone recommend an ASIO USB audio driver?
 
I would like to eliminate my audio interface and use this set of speakers for our DAW activities:
 
http://www.klipsch.com/products/r-15pm-powered-monitors
 
These speakers implement, among other interfaces, a USB interface which connects to a PC via a USB interface for transporting audio. We have a pair already, and they are connected via USB to a PC using the Windows 10 USB audio driver (not ASIO), and they sound quite nice for their size. If I can get this to work out, we can eliminate our existing aging USB audio interface (and wall wart), amplifier, and older speakers.
 
 
#1
dwardzala
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 01:02:25 (permalink)
If you are using Sonar, you can run it in WASAPI driver mode and be able to mix.  Recording latency might be problematic depending on your system.

Dave
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#2
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 06:08:34 (permalink)
mcdonalk
Can anyone recommend an ASIO USB audio driver?




ASIO drivers are written by the manufacturer and need to fit the device. There is no generic true ASIO driver.

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#3
bvideo
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 15:25:23 (permalink)
Another potential problem with ASIO is that an app cannot have more than one driver open. If you use an ASIO driver for your USB speakers, you have no driver for input, so no audio recording.

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#4
Jim Roseberry
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 16:29:56 (permalink)
After the PC itself, the audio interface is the second most critical component for a rock-solid DAW.
The built-in audio interface in a pair of monitor speakers is not going to be up-to-snuff for working with low-latency multi-track audio.
 
Use a decent dedicated audio interface.
  • It'll have a proper ASIO driver
  • You'll be able to effectively work at low-latency settings
  • You'll be able to record external sources (guitars, vocals, etc)

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#5
Dave76
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 17:57:18 (permalink)
ASIO4ALL will accomplish what you are looking for by mapping the device's WDM driver over to ASIO:
http://www.asio4all.com/
 
You could also try SONAR's built-in WDM, WASAPI, etc. modes as those may be adequate for your purposes by themselves.  
#6
fireberd
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 20:19:18 (permalink)
Beware of ASIO4ALL.  It works for some and not for others and even for others it will screw up other devices.

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#7
dwardzala
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/10 21:35:27 (permalink)
Dave76
ASIO4ALL will accomplish what you are looking for by mapping the device's WDM driver over to ASIO:
http://www.asio4all.com/
 
You could also try SONAR's built-in WDM, WASAPI, etc. modes as those may be adequate for your purposes by themselves.  


Do not do ASIO4ALL.  WASAPI will get you decent to good performance if latency isn't an issue (i.e. you are mixing).

Dave
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#8
abacab
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 01:20:46 (permalink)
If you are using Windows 10, and a current release of Sonar, WASAPI is the best choice for those without a hardware audio interface and the vendor supplied ASIO drivers.
 
If using Sonar X3, you may not be able to access WASAPI on Windows 10.  I have found that WDM works OK in this case.
 
Some Cakewalk standalone instruments also demand ASIO only, and WASAPI is not an option.  Some examples are Rapture Session, Cakewalk Pro, Rapture, etc.
 
I also have a Win 10 laptop with ASIO4ALL installed with no problems, but it is not my main DAW, and I am not attempting to connect an external audio interface.  Not attempting any recording with this rig either!  It seems to run fine with playback using virtual instruments or audio only using the internal Realtek audio chip.
 
I think that the advice to get a real interface is best, especially if you are serious about making music on your computer.  The advantages to having proper low latency ASIO drivers, as well as the ability to record with your microphones or guitars using a proper preamp are priceless.  The entry level units are budget friendly, and should be the highest priority investment after purchasing your computer.

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#9
pwalpwal
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 10:50:11 (permalink)
i also use asio4all without any of the hoo-har implied in this forum, i expect it's because some people can't figure out how to configure it so it must be asio4all's fault
 
and fwiw, wasapi is also a "wdm wrapper" just like asio4all... go figure...

just a sec

#10
mudgel
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 12:26:38 (permalink)
It's been documented here numerous times that if ASIO4ALL is installed but not used, it can interfere with regular ASIO drivers.

WASAPI is not a wrapper. It is a Windows driver model which is far in excess of what asio4all can do.

Don't spread misinformation.

Here's a link. https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI

The thing is that while WASAPI has been around since the days of VISTA, Cakewalk has in recent times with MS I proved on what it can do. But it for sure is no wrapper and not I. The same class as ASIO4ALL.

Mike V.

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#11
pwalpwal
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 12:59:42 (permalink)
mudgel
It's been documented here numerous times that if ASIO4ALL is installed but not used, it can interfere with regular ASIO drivers.

WASAPI is not a wrapper. It is a Windows driver model which is far in excess of what asio4all can do.

Don't spread misinformation.

Here's a link. https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI

The thing is that while WASAPI has been around since the days of VISTA, Cakewalk has in recent times with MS I proved on what it can do. But it for sure is no wrapper and not I. The same class as ASIO4ALL.



hmm, shouldn;t have said "wrapper" maybe "layer", i was under the impression that wasapi also communicates via te same wdm/ks stack but i don't mind being corrected
 
however, "documented here numerous times" is all anecdotal no one has ever shown reproducible steps... it's just another easy blame for errors with sonar... how does it "interfere" with other drivers? there's no record of such on the asio4all forums, as there certainly would be if this were the case!  it has also existed happily with other "real" asio drivers without issue...
 
have you had trouble with it yourself, or are you just repeating what you've read in the forum?
 
the misinformation being spread is that asio4all is the issue - if it was really that way, how have i used it for years across multiple machines and devices without any trouble? i agree that one should use a manufacturer-supplied asio driver if one can, but sometimes there isn't such an option
 
as the recent ezine stats showed that's the most popular driver used with sonar, so it 's weird that this forum says it doesn't work, don't use it...
 
tl/dr? it's clearly specific to individual users (mis-configuration) and hardware, so presenting it as a general "no no" is the misinformation being spread
 
/fwiw
 
eta, only in exclusive mode is wasapi in kernal mode, in shared it is in user mode a al a4a
 
nice pic:
 


just a sec

#12
fireberd
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 13:51:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/12 09:43:18
Several years ago (in early Win 7 days) I wanted to test my PC sound card, just test to see if it would work wasn't going to really use it, and installed ASIO4ALL.  That allowed Sonar (Probably in the Sonar 8/X1 days) to recognize it.  However, the ASIO4ALL caused problems with the ASIO driver for my recording interface, at the time a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.  To get the Saffire Pro 40 working again, I had to uninstall ASIO4ALL and reinstall the drivers for the Saffire Pro 40.
 
There are posts (several that I've seen) on the gearslutz forum about ASIO4ALL being a 50/50.

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#13
dwardzala
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 14:39:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/12 09:43:23
No, I have not had problems with ASIO4ALL, but I know that others have and WASAPI doesn't require any additional steps to make work (just select the driver mode.)  ASIO4ALL as you stated requires "configuration" in addition to installation.  Why make the process more complicated than it has to be and run the risk of it not working?
 

Dave
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#14
abacab
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 16:22:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/12 09:43:26
I think the most common problem with ASIO4ALL could be when a new user connects an external audio interface and either:
 
1. They had previously installed ASIO4ALL for use with the internal audio, and don't remove ASIO4ALL before installing the new drivers.
 
2. They mistakenly installed ASIO4ALL, thinking that was how to use ASIO with their new interface.

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#15
Dave76
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 19:43:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/12 09:43:31
mudgel
It's been documented here numerous times that if ASIO4ALL is installed but not used, it can interfere with regular ASIO drivers.
Did you even read the original post?  He specifically said his hardware DOES NOT have ASIO drivers.  How is ASIO4ALL going to interfere with drivers that do not exist?!?!  
 
 
If you have a device with ASIO drivers and you are trying to use ASIO4ALL, you probably seriously misunderstand the purpose of ASIO4ALL so I'm not surprised you'd have issues with it.  
#16
eikelbijter
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 20:35:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/12 09:43:35
Ive used ASIO4ALL many times over the last ten years or so, with all kinds of sound devices, and while not perfected, and perhaps a little difficult to configure sometimes, it has never caused any major problems. At most it might require an uninstall and a reinstall of other true ASIO drivers....
 
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#17
abacab
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/11 21:07:49 (permalink)
mcdonalk
Can anyone recommend an ASIO USB audio driver?
 
I would like to eliminate my audio interface and use this set of speakers for our DAW activities:
 
http://www.klipsch.com/products/r-15pm-powered-monitors
 
These speakers implement, among other interfaces, a USB interface which connects to a PC via a USB interface for transporting audio. We have a pair already, and they are connected via USB to a PC using the Windows 10 USB audio driver (not ASIO), and they sound quite nice for their size. If I can get this to work out, we can eliminate our existing aging USB audio interface (and wall wart), amplifier, and older speakers.
 
 



After taking another look at those Klipsch R-15PM powered monitors, there appears to be two ways you can hook them up to a PC.
 
You could either use the PC internal audio out (or headphone out) to the aux input on the speaker, or use the USB audio connection as you have described.
 
Since you have already attached it via USB, there is probably a new audio driver installed by Windows on your PC.  Check in your DAW settings, to see what driver modes are available.  Windows 10 WASAPI works great with low latency if your DAW is compatible.  So if WASAPI is available, try that first and then see if you can select the new speakers as your DAW main audio outputs.
 
If that doesn't work you could try the other method and run an audio cable from your PC to the speaker aux input, then try to set up the WASAPI mode with your PC's internal audio driver.
 
Then as a last resort, you could try to install ASIO4ALL, with either of those methods for audio or USB.

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#18
azslow3
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/03/12 08:58:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/12 09:43:56
pwalpwal
however, "documented here numerous times" is all anecdotal no one has ever shown reproducible steps... it's just another easy blame for errors with sonar... how does it "interfere" with other drivers? there's no record of such on the asio4all forums, as there certainly would be if this were the case!  it has also existed happily with other "real" asio drivers without issue...
 
have you had trouble with it yourself, or are you just repeating what you've read in the forum?
 
the misinformation being spread is that asio4all is the issue - if it was really that way, how have i used it for years across multiple machines and devices without any trouble? i agree that one should use a manufacturer-supplied asio driver if one can, but sometimes there isn't such an option
 
as the recent ezine stats showed that's the most popular driver used with sonar, so it 's weird that this forum says it doesn't work, don't use it...

I am usually defending ASIO4ALL in this forum and I use it on 2 computers for years. "Real" ASIO drivers (M-Audio, Behringer) are also installed there.
And I also think most asio4all problems reported before have roots in wrong configuration.
 
But since you ask about "interfere" and personal "trouble with it", yes I had it once. I have clearly "overplayed" with ASIO drivers on my primary computer. I had M-Audio, VS-20 and SB "real" drivers installed. All was working fine. Then, for test (and really as a prove that nothing bad can happened...) I have added ASIO4ALL there. After several "combination of settings" tests I no longer could use M-Audio and VS-20 without glitches (with original drivers). Uninstalling ASIO4ALL and reinstalling original drivers has not cured the problem. I was about digging deep to find what is changed (registry, ini files, driver chains, etc.), but in several days Windows 10 Anniversary update came and it has restored working environment for me.
 
Note that "problems" was not obvious. I have just started to get pops/clicks at places I am sure they was not before. I had to drastically increase the buffer size for M-Audio to almost avoid them. For VS-20 I could not avoid them with any settings. WDM was still working fine, but ASIO no longer.
 
Am I 100% sure the problem was coursed by ASIO4ALL? Not. But after that "accident", I think ASIO4ALL in fact can interfere with original drivers. I have not found how exactly. My conclusion from the story:
1) if manufacturer has proprietary ASIO driver, an attempt to use ASIO4ALL for the same device is looking for trouble
2) if some devices need ASIO4ALL while there are other interfaces in the same computer with own ASIO, the first thing to do in ASIO4ALL is disable all devices for which it is not needed (effectively avoiding (1) ).
 
 

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#19
mudgel
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/01 14:15:52 (permalink)
The purpose for ASIO4ALL was to provide an asio driver when it was required by hardware but the manufacturer hadn't provided one. Eg Behringer recommends ASIO4ALL for its audio devices when asio is required.

I think a conflict occurs when you have a genuine asio driver and ASIO4ALL installed on the same machine. This would also explain why ASIO4ALL works on laptops as well as onboard sound cards. That also explains the reasoning behind Cakewalks Analytics which has found that ASIO4ALL is the most popular driver. See ezine from 2016/08

There also seems to be similar anecdotal evidence regarding the nVidia High Definition Audio driver conflicting with quality drivers for the same sound card.

Mike V.

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#20
pwalpwal
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/01 15:49:04 (permalink)
mudgel
I think a conflict occurs when you have a genuine asio driver and ASIO4ALL installed on the same machine.



i haven't experienced that, and have the asio driver for edirol ua-1000 installed on the same (win10) laptop
 
weird huh?

just a sec

#21
pwalpwal
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/01 15:55:53 (permalink)
just to add something to the discussion, i wonder, does the same "conflict" occur when one has more than one "real" asio drivers installed on the same machine? (and flame suit on for this ) could it be to do with the way sonar is enumerating or instantiating the "asio" drivers on a system? (back in the day (x1 times) an update that included asio-driver-interpretation/instantiation changes specifically for then-parent-company-wth-hardware-to-sell roland devices caused lynx devices to stop working, for example, i think that was the x1a or patch thereafter)
 

just a sec

#22
pwalpwal
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/01 15:56:23 (permalink)
(what happened to the "preview" option on quick replies?)

just a sec

#23
abacab
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/01 19:33:37 (permalink)
pwalpwal
just to add something to the discussion, i wonder, does the same "conflict" occur when one has more than one "real" asio drivers installed on the same machine? (and flame suit on for this ) could it be to do with the way sonar is enumerating or instantiating the "asio" drivers on a system? (back in the day (x1 times) an update that included asio-driver-interpretation/instantiation changes specifically for then-parent-company-wth-hardware-to-sell roland devices caused lynx devices to stop working, for example, i think that was the x1a or patch thereafter)
 



Good question.  I recently installed the Cubase Elements 9 trial on my DAW, and discovered that Steinberg had installed a "Generic Low Latency ASIO driver" onto my system.  Due to that, I could not get Sonar to recognize my real M-Audio ASIO driver.  I could select other driver modes, but it came up blank with ASIO.  I first had to uninstall the Steinberg driver, and then re-build the Sonar aud.ini file.
 
Both Sonar and Cubase are happy with my M-Audio ASIO driver now. 

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-09; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1607 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
#24
mudgel
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/25 12:09:20 (permalink)
pwalpwal
mudgel
I think a conflict occurs when you have a genuine asio driver and ASIO4ALL installed on the same machine.



i haven't experienced that, and have the asio driver for edirol ua-1000 installed on the same (win10) laptop
 
weird huh?

You should note I started with "I think". That's my opinion in trying to explain why the reports of how bad ASIO4ALL can be, has gotten hold on the forum.
Personally I've had some pretty dodgy experiences with it sometimes but not others. What I've encountered is that I can make it work if I uninstall all other asio drivers.
Anyway there is also the conflicting stats of ASIO4ALL being the most prolific driver used by Sonar users according to Sonar Analytics and the anecdotal evidence of how flakey it is.
Like I also said it's about the same conundrum as the discussion relating to the effect that having the nVidia Hi Definiton audio driver onboard causes. It too is claimed to cause problems just being installed on a system.

Mike V.

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#25
abacab
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Re: ASIO USB Audio Driver? 2017/04/25 23:46:50 (permalink)
I recently downloaded and installed the FL Studio demo on my DAW (just checking out the MIDI editor- don't judge me!!!).
 
There was an option that I had to decline, which is to install the ASIO4ALL driver...
 
So maybe some unsuspecting folks get this thing by default, that ends up conflicting with their other ASIO drivers?
 
I have had great success using ASIO4ALL on a laptop with the onboard audio, so it's not all bad! 

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-09; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1607 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
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