A&H ZED R16 > Sonar Studio X2 mixdown...routing problem??

Taller


I decided to dive into the digital revolution late, but with both feet...into the deep end.
As the title suggests, I've got the Allen and Heath Zed 16R firewire mixer feeding my Sonar Studio X2. I've got it all sorted, as far as the basic set up goes (I think!) and I've been experimenting, trying to learn signal flow and so on.
 
Here's what's got me scratching my head right now:
I recorded a simple "test...1...2...3" on track one in Sonar. I learned how to record making use of the EQ in the Zed - wonderful!
 
Upon playback though, I've got something not routed correctly; some button not pushed; some box not checked??
 
I get the track to play back, but I can't get the signal to go through the EQ, simulating a situation where I'm mixing a recorded track and EQ'ing it at the board.
 
The level of the signal is governed by the ZED's fader on channel one, but not the master fader on the Zed.
The Pan control on channel one on the Zed does not effect the signal: The 'LR' switch is pushed in.
There is no signal present when I press the 'PFL' button on channel one.
The 'Mute' switch has no effect.
It's as though the signal is somehow routed to the channel 1 fader, then straight to the Main Mix Bus - the master meter LED's - they illuminate on the board (on the left side, as I've got the channel panned full left in Sonar).
 
- The 'EQ In' button is pressed in and the LED is illuminated.
- The 'Digital Ret Pre-Insert' button is pressed in and the LED is illuminated.
- The Input on channel one in Sonar is 'Input Left Zed R16 1/2'
- The Output on channel one in Sonar is 'Output to Stereo ASIO A&H Firewire Zed R16 L/Main L/R'.
 
Please, make me feel stupid and tell me what simple little thing I'm missing here.
 
 
Thanks, y'all!
 

You are missing something simple............. (Joking)
 
As you've probably realised the routing options of the ZED are nothing short of mind boggling so it is easy to get it wrong until you get your head around it. There's also a couple of possibilities for the cause of your scenario.
 
First. To keep you and me sane, I'll refer to "Tracks" in Sonar and "Channels" on the ZED just so we both know exactly what I'm referring to. I'm also referring to this as if you only have one track set up in Sonar. (That'll help when I explain the stereo signal routing through the ctrl room)
 
If you want to mix Track one through the ZED channel one you need to set Sonar track one output to "ASIO Left Zed 1/2" (or whatever it is - you get the jist). If you want to use the ZED's EQ on that channel you need to make sure that the channel's "Dig Ret Pre-ins" is down. Remember to turn on the channel EQ as well though.
 
If you want the signal to bypass the EQ press "Dig Ret Post-EQ". Note that this switch over rides the pre switch so if both are down the signal will be post EQ but the LED indicators will reflect that.
That will give you the signal through channel one. Using the PFL should put that on the PFL buss directly to the control room, L-R down will put it on the L-R buss (assuming PFL isn't active of course) then pan, mute, and both the channel and master faders should then affect what you hear via the main outs or control room monitor section depending on how you have that setup.
 
The stereo signal from Sonar gets a little more complicated. There are two ways of monitoring that.
 
Both the switches I'm about to refer to are in the master section.
 
Look at the "Phones level" knob. Beneath that are three buttons. The bottom one "Dig Master"--------"Main Mix L-R" is one of the options. If this is down you will monitor the stereo signal from Sonar in the control room but you will not hear any signal present on the L-R buss. It is an either/or switch. So if this is down in your scenario you won't hear anything even if you had it set up as I've described above. The L-R main faders will not control levels either, volume control will need to be done using Sonar's master buss fader. The reason is that in your scenario the signal from Sonar is going to channel one and then the L-R buss *not* via Sonar's main stereo out.
 
In the up position you will hear the signal present on the L-R buss but won't hear anything from SOnar's main stereo out unless......................
 
............you have the "Dig Master to L-R" switch down. This is located just above the headphone output jack socket. The stereo signal from Sonar is now routed to the L-R buss. Now you'll hear anything coming from Sonar's main outs plus anything coming from the board's L-R buss including any Sonar track's or busses routed through the board via the ZED's channels as I've described earlier. Remember busses can also be routed like that for mix down as well as individual tracks.
 
I hope that helps, if you have any more questions just ask and you have a fantastic interface. I for one would not swap mine for anything other than the ZED's big brother the GSR-24.
 
 

Taller


Thanks!
After 24 hours away from the problem, and a sleepless night thinking about the problem, I think I came up with what you recommended. I tried it last night when I got home from work and it seems to be doing what I want and expect now.
 
Essentially, for tracking, the inputs of the tracks in Sonar need to be set to match the channels on the Zed, while the outputs should be set to the Zed 17/18 Master Stereo.
 
For mixing, both the inputs and outputs of the tracks in Sonar should match the channels on Zed, i.e. Channel 1/2 Left for channel 1.
 
Ummm...right?

If you are using Sonar as the "tape machine" in an old style setup that is correct. Like most things in the digital age though there's no hard and fast rules. I sometimes put some out to use the boards EQ while mixing and keep others ITB. I don't mix thorugh the board that much simply because I miss all the automation abilities of Sonar.

I come from the old school of analog tracking through a mixer to a multi-track tape deck. I resisted the new digital technology up until recently 'cause I watched friends of mine over the years pour money into the latest gizmos that became obsolete within a couple of years. The whole digital technology thing seems to have nearly leveled off now (25 years later!), and I've been wanting a home studio since forever, so I did a bunch of research and ended up with the Zed, as I still harken back to the tactile sensation of mixing on a real board.
What blows my mind now is that I have two mixers - the Zed and the Sonar and the signal flow, as you say, is mind boggling on the Zed alone, much less the choices on the virtual mixer in Sonar.
 
One more question, if you don't mind. I plan on doing some tracking this weekend. I have a small acoustic project in mind that will require only 4 tracks. When it comes time to mix these 4 mono tracks to stereo, my guess is that I create another track within the project - a stereo track - and mix the 4 to that one, then export that stereo track as my master?
 

You can do that yes.

When sending tracks or busses out from Sonar through the board for the EQ or other processes if you want you can also re-record back into an existing track if you wish. A new take lane will be created in the existing track as long as "Sound on Sound" is your recording preference. Great for A/B ing the treated/untreated track. I do that quite a lot.

Thanks again.
 

You're very welcome.