sharke
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Acidity levels and guitar strings
I'm one of those people who blackens guitar strings really quickly. Always have been. Costs me a fortune. Anyway I've always had a vague inkling that it had something to do with my sweat's acidity levels but I've kept the thought at the back of my mind. I never thought it would be that much of a problem because I eat very healthily - loads of greens, loads of salad and fruits - and I don't drink or smoke. On the minus side, I do work out pretty hard (which is supposed to increase acidity?) and also eat quite a lot of protein to that end. I also eat a lot of beans and grains. Yesterday I was in the health section of Whole Foods and they had some pH strips on sale. I figured why not? So I tested my tinkle. Between 5.5 and 6! Not that good. Not mega-bad, but definitely way more acidic than I thought I was. Doing a little light research it seems that drinking a little baking soda in water every day helps bring your pH up. So today I mixed way too much into my daily green shake - 2 teaspoons, lol. It fizzed up and tasted gross, but a couple of hours later I tested my wizz again and the pH had shot up to 8.5! So smaller doses methinks - the general advice is to take maybe 1/2 a teaspoon in water 4 or 5 times a day. I'll monitor with the strips for a while (gotta use them up!) and see if I can strike a healthy balance. Don't want to get obsessed with it, but at the same time I'm really curious as to how this will affect the lifespan of my guitar strings. Anyone been down the same route?
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Rain
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/11 22:27:33
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I never tested myself but I'm almost sure the numbers would be alarming. You may remember seeing pictures of one of my guitar's bridge after only a few weeks - my sweat burned the finish in no time. I can't wear white clothes, my sweat ruins them. It also "burns" bed sheets. Even if I take 2 showers a day, one just before going to bed - you can always tell my side of the bed. I've tried changing my diet a bit, though I was eating healthy already, but there are things like coffee which I'm just not ready to give up on. As for strings, on my main guitar, I usually change them once a week, anyway.
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sharke
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/11 22:47:58
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I remember you posting that Rain, and in fact I had a feeling you'd be the first to chime in! Anyway maybe try the baking soda thing for a bit to see what a difference it makes. I've had literally one dose of it tonight (albeit a large one) and it made a drastic change to my pH straight away. Not only that but my mouth feels a lot "cleaner," can't really describe it except to say that it tastes a lot more neutral, like water, and my throat feels a lot clearer because it seems to have thinned my mucous. I think when you have high acidity, your body has to work extra hard in order to maintain your blood's ideal pH level, and this can affect your health and energy levels. I can't wear white clothing either...but maybe I will this summer
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Rain
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/11 23:36:40
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I think I ought to give it a try - and also grab some of those strips tomorrow. :) It would make sense, considering all the efforts I make to stay healthy and in shape. I know it cannot be good for my health to have such high acidity levels all the time. And I know that my energy level is nowhere near where it should be. In the worst cases, it feels quite similar to sticking my tongue on a 9 Volt battery, and it's almost as if I had vinegar in my veins. Very odd.
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bitflipper
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 08:24:36
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Apparently, the average pH in humans has been dropping over the centuries as our diets have changed. Specifically, the ratio of potassium to sodium has reversed: our ancient ancestors had a ratio of 10:1 potassium to sodium. Modern diets have a typical ratio of 1:3 - three times as much sodium as potassium. This, coupled with a shortfall in magnesium consumption, results in acidosis, or excessive acidity in the body. Note that testing urine doesn't really tell you what you need to know, because it's the acidity of blood that matters and the two aren't directly proportional. Just the opposite: altering the acidity of urine is part of the process that keeps your serum pH consistent. A low-carb, high-protein diet will increase acidity in urine but not necessarily in blood. Acidity in urine does indicate a higher chance of kidney stones, though - and if you haven't experienced that joy I can tell you it's most unpleasant. A better test for acidity is saliva, so your test strips may be better applied there. Keeping the pH slightly above neutral and eating potassium is especially important for old guys like me, because it helps slow muscle loss with aging. It's also been linked to reduction in back pain. So Bananas! Lots o' bananas! When I'm in the Philippines I eat at least 6 a day, and there's nothing like a naturally-ripened banana straight from the tree. Back here in the USA, those bland-tasting picked-green things will have to do. And lay off the caffeine. Sigh. Sadly, it's one of the worst offenders. And I drink coffee constantly at gigs.
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paulo
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 08:49:08
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Is there anything Bitflipper doesn't know ? You should have your own version of google Bit...... Just Ask Bitflipper ! I've already stopped using google if at all possible, so I would definitely switch to JAB ! @ Sharke - can't you just buy black strings ?
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Karyn
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 08:50:47
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Unless you're intending on bleeding or peeing all over your instruments (art can be a strange thing) the only thing that matters is your sweat. Human sweat naturally has a high salt content and it will corrode your metalwork. No PH altering snake oil will change that. You can reduce your salt intake if you like, but that won't affect the salt content of your sweat by much, if at all. Your sweat is salty to act as an anti-bacterial protection for your pores and sweat glands. The only viable solutions are things like gold plated hardware or plastic coatings (lacquer) and oily coatings for strings such as FastFret (tm)
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sharke
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 09:49:52
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Bitflipper: I think everyone's blood pH is essentially within the same small range - if it wasn't, you'd be dead. The goal of reducing acidity isn't to change your blood pH, it's to change the rest of your bodily fluids so that your body doesn't have to work as hard to maintain that ideal blood pH. That's what I've read a few times anyway - however, I'm by no means a biologist. Where I think you might be mistaken is in your assertion that the saliva is a better test - all of the pH strips I looked at gave instructions for both urine and saliva and said that if possible, test the urine. However again, I'm no authority and could be wrong. Might have to do some more research on this.
Paulo: black strings would be awesome. Lead the way.
Karyn: I understand what you're saying, but it is true that some people's sweat is more corrosive than others. I've had friends who always groaned when I picked up their guitars because I was notorious for turning strings black quickly. I have a friend who sweats like crazy when he's playing on stage but somehow doesn't have the same string blackening problem as me, and I don't sweat much.
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Karyn
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 09:58:39
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How much you sweat is not the issue, it's the salt content. You could argue that sweating profusely under hot stage lights could produce less salty sweat as the water content is replenished faster in the sweat glands.. Conversely, someone who sweats little could have oily sweat that sticks to everything (think fingerprints) and holds the salt, increasing corrosion. But ultimately it's the same problem as we have with cars in winter. Salt corrosion.
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paulo
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 10:18:49
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sharke
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 10:37:38
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JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 10:44:50
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Karyn How much you sweat is not the issue, it's the salt content. You could argue that sweating profusely under hot stage lights could produce less salty sweat as the water content is replenished faster in the sweat glands.. Conversely, someone who sweats little could have oily sweat that sticks to everything (think fingerprints) and holds the salt, increasing corrosion. But ultimately it's the same problem as we have with cars in winter. Salt corrosion.
I'm not saying how much I sweat is the issue, I'm saying that the acidic content of the sweat is the issue. Sweat has uric acid in it in quantities which differ from person to person.
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craigb
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 11:04:03
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paulo Is there anything Bitflipper doesn't know ?
Where do you think Google gets their information from?
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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jbow
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 11:52:38
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You have acid? Acid never hurt my strings because I could never figure out which end of the cord to plug into the guitar... or what the guitar was. Seriously, I go low sodium when I can and never add salt to my food. I never have a problem with my strings, but it is probably just me. I DO use Snake Oil Strings almost exclusively. They last forever and actually become more tuneful after about a week of playing. It is not unusual for them to last months. I use the Vintage, Rock, and Nickel for different guitars. They are well worth a try if you haven't tried them. http://www.sfarzo.us/SNAKE_OIL_STRINGS.html they have lots of other good strings too. The "V" strings look interesting. Some good looking coated strings too. J
post edited by jbow - 2014/03/12 12:06:13
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57Gregy
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 13:10:50
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My guitar player in California sprayed WD40 on his strings after every play.
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jbow
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 13:18:08
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57Gregy My guitar player in California sprayed WD40 on his strings after every play.
Did he put fish wrapper under the strings or something? Did it help? Sound's oily... may be slick though! J
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yorolpal
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 13:51:55
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quantumeffect
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 14:12:16
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Apparently, the average pH in humans has been dropping over the centuries as our diets have changed. Specifically, the ratio of potassium to sodium has reversed: our ancient ancestors had a ratio of 10:1 potassium to sodium. Modern diets have a typical ratio of 1:3 - three times as much sodium as potassium. This, coupled with a shortfall in magnesium consumption, results in acidosis, or excessive acidity in the body.
The sodium ion and potassium ion are both cationic species associated with strong bases (i.e, sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide) and as such their presence does not affect the pH of an aqueous solution. The same is true for anionic species associated with strong acids such as the chloride ion in hydrochloric acid. So, in other words, a solution of sodium chloride (NaCl) prepared in distilled, deionized water should have a pH value very close to 7.
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57Gregy
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 14:19:15
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jbow
57Gregy My guitar player in California sprayed WD40 on his strings after every play.
Did he put fish wrapper under the strings or something? Did it help? Sound's oily... may be slick though! J
No, he just sprayed it on, then wiped it down. Sorta like Finger Eze (?), but with the added benefit of Water Displacement. I didn't like doing that because WD40 stinks, to me.
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quantumeffect
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 14:23:45
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Karyn How much you sweat is not the issue, it's the salt content. You could argue that sweating profusely under hot stage lights could produce less salty sweat as the water content is replenished faster in the sweat glands.. Conversely, someone who sweats little could have oily sweat that sticks to everything (think fingerprints) and holds the salt, increasing corrosion. But ultimately it's the same problem as we have with cars in winter. Salt corrosion.
+1 to these comments Also (probably stating the obvious) ... adding additional sodium hydrogen carbonate (sodium bicarb) adds sodium ion to your diet. For every gram of NaHCO3 that you add to your diet (and it sounds like you are adding at least that much) you are adding 0.274 grams of Na+.
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quantumeffect
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 14:36:06
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Yesterday I was in the health section of Whole Foods and they had some pH strips on sale. I figured why not? So I tested my tinkle. Between 5.5 and 6!
I don't know anything about the accuracy / precision of your test strips but if you really have health concerns, you should probably monitor your urine several times throughout the day to develop a 24 hour pH profile and bring that to your physician. I am a chemist not a medical doctor (so don't quote me on this) but a 24 hour urine pH of 6 is normal. If your 24 hour urine is truly is 5.5 or lower your looking at things like Type 2 Diabetes and the coffee house is probably not the right place for this discussion.
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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bitflipper
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 14:43:51
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I only know about acidosis because it came up in my research regarding back pain, a subject I became somewhat obsessed with during the year when I was crippled by it. I do suspect that Karyn's closer to the truth on this, that the corrosive quality of sweat is probably more about salts than pH. Anybody who lives in New England can attest to the affect of salt on metal. Just look at the underside of a 10+ year-old car that's been driven on salted roads every winter. It's the reason you have so-called "sacrificial anodes" on your boat if it sits in salt water, to keep your prop from dissolving. At one time SeveredVesper, a once-frequent forum poster who's since been traded to the Steinberg team, complained that guitar strings purchased in the Philippines were sometimes corroded right out of the package. I put him in touch with another once-frequent poster, Stringmaster, who manufactures guitar strings at Dunlop. It was an interesting conversation, something the folks at Dunlop had been struggling with for a while. Their best solution, as suggested above, was coated strings. The problem is that sweat eats through the coating even faster, so that at best it forestalls corrosion by a few days. I guess the only answer is changing them frequently. I wonder, though, if the composition of the strings makes a difference. Isn't nickel a component? It doesn't corrode. Following that logic, maybe the solution is switching to nylon strings!
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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spacealf
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 14:52:18
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FastFret is a mainly a white mineral oil for the neck and strings. Actually some people and Gibson say to use lemon oil (furniture oil for adding moisture) which is close to that for the neck and that. I doubt I will use WD40 on anything, it really is not great to use. (for anything at least to me) People have gotten on that discussion over at the Gibson forum and also strings to use sometimes. (been amps lately for some reason).
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quantumeffect
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 15:14:46
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☄ Helpfulby jbow 2014/03/13 11:55:57
Maybe the solution is to build a sacrificial anode into the guitar. 1) Mount a piece of metal (such as zinc) to serve as an anode (that is attached to an insulating piece of plastic) on either the headstock or body of the guitar. 2) Attach the end of the string (either the end poking out from the machine head or the little round thing-y at the other end ... sorry, I'm a drummer) to the anode. The attachment could be through the string itself or possibly through a small jumper cable.
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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Karyn
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 15:24:47
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or just make the bridge from zinc...
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Rain
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 16:46:31
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Lots of great info here. Thanks for starting this thread, Sharke. I can't imagine eating 6 bananas a day, though - unless I refrain from eating almost anything else. I usually have one for breakfast in my shake. Then maybe another one later with cottage cheese or greek yogurt. Maybe I should look for supplements to help make sure I get enough. I am addicted to coffee but I'm trying to replace a few of my daily cups with free tea. Really isn't easy. Often I end up making coffee afterwards, anyway, so I'm not replacing anything, just adding tea to my daily beverages list. I've had my Gibson SGJ for almost 4 months now. It rarely leaves when I'm in the studio - which is usually + 8 hours a day. As you can see, the finish is going away quickly in many spots. The bridge screw lost its shiny finish, and the saddles' top changed color, but the bridge itself is ok. Nothing compared to my Epiphone Les Paul bridge after a few months. SG LP
post edited by Rain - 2014/03/12 16:48:51
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quantumeffect
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 18:12:40
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Karyn or just make the bridge from zinc...
The sacrificial anode is simply an antioxidant in that it is preferentially oxidized or corroded ... in other words ... it goes away. So using a component of your instrument that has to maintain its mechanical integrity is probably not a good idea. There are other issues that would make the implementation a sacrificial anode difficult. They are most effective when the two metals are in physical contact with an electrolytic solution (fancy talk for salt water). If there is salty sweat on the strings but the anode remains dry, its effectiveness is probably reduced (I'm guessing).
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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soens
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 18:20:26
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sharke On the other hand, how am I supposed to know when my strings are corroded and need replacing? With my ears? Pffft!
In this case I think they will turn green...
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craigb
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 18:39:43
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57Gregy My guitar player in California sprayed WD40 on his strings after every play.
I can think of a few that should have duct tape wrapped around their strings instead...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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yorolpal
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Re: Acidity levels and guitar strings
2014/03/12 18:44:59
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Or just not use strings, or amps at all...just tap (ever so lightly) on the fretboard...all alone...in their parents basement.
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