Acoustic Room Treatment

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hairyjamie
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 02:54:21 (permalink)
Hi Folks,

Well I've done my homework and I believe I have a plan.

I'm going for light pine frames, with 60mm of rigid high density insulation within them, but I'm also going to use acoustic foam panels on the front to try and tame mids and highs.

I've been doing some calculations and I believe I can make ten of these at 600mmx600mm for under £100!

Going to order the materials this week and hopefully get around to building them over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for your help!
post edited by hairyjamie - 2010/04/27 02:56:02
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edentowers
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 04:28:26 (permalink)
Did you take a look at the video link I posted? The big advantage to that solution is that it leaves a 2 inch gap behind the absorber and, as you are mounting your insulation on top of the frame, it means that the sides of the absorber also absorb.

The insulation that Jonesy rightly recommends is mostly sold as Rockwool Slab. Don't get the ones with any backing paper. The essential difference between the types (http://www.just-insulation.com/rockwoolrw3.html) is their density and thickness. I bought 30mm slabs of 1000x600mm and used two slabs per absorber.

I really would not bother with any extra frontal treatment to these panels. I have 11 on the walls and 4 on the ceiling and top end (and bottom) are now well controlled. It took me and a friend about a day to construct them and about 1 hour to hang them. I just lift them up onto a couple of screws that are rawlplugged into the wall. If you keep the screws well within the overall width of the panel then it's easy to adjust their position. And you can just as easily take them down or use them elsewhere in the room for different purposes.

By the way, I think those Wickes prices are a little steep!

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hairyjamie
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 04:47:04 (permalink)
edentowers


Did you take a look at the video link I posted? The big advantage to that solution is that it leaves a 2 inch gap behind the absorber and, as you are mounting your insulation on top of the frame, it means that the sides of the absorber also absorb.

The insulation that Jonesy rightly recommends is mostly sold as Rockwool Slab. Don't get the ones with any backing paper. The essential difference between the types (
[link=http://www.just-insulation.com/rockwoolrw3.html</a></font>]http://www.just-insulatio...lt;/a></font>) is their density and thickness. I bought 30mm slabs of 1000x600mm and used two slabs per absorber.

I really would not bother with any extra frontal treatment to these panels. I have 11 on the walls and 4 on the ceiling and top end (and bottom) are now well controlled. It took me and a friend about a day to construct them and about 1 hour to hang them. I just lift them up onto a couple of screws that are rawlplugged into the wall. If you keep the screws well within the overall width of the panel then it's easy to adjust their position. And you can just as easily take them down or use them elsewhere in the room for different purposes.

By the way, I think those Wickes prices are a little steep!

Hi,
 
I did watch the video that you linked to and also managed to find a PDF of the process by the same guy - it was really helpful, thank you.
 
I did have some concerns about covering the sides of the insulation and therefore lessening the surface area available to absorb in my design but to be honest I think they will look better with the foam panels finishing them off.
 
The insulation I'm getting is 600mm wide and the foam panels are 305mm wide, so I can frame the insulation and then have two panels that cover that and 5mm of the frame on each side.
 
I'm not usually a style over substance kind of guy but my better half has had some input!
 
PS - I think the Wickes stuff is a bit pricey too but unfortunately I can't find any local builders merchants (at least online) that have anything similar that isn't lined in some way.
post edited by hairyjamie - 2010/04/27 04:49:36
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hairyjamie
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 04:59:26 (permalink)
Well, best laid plans and all that - I've just found this,

http://www.insulationexpress.co.uk/Acoustic-Insulation/Rocksilk-Flexible-Slab.htm

looks like it comes in thicker panels so I wouldn't have to double up layers and its also cheaper than the stuff available at Wickes.

Hmm, any thoughts on how effective this might be?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 06:04:49 (permalink)
Jamie, when I was searching around for material, Wickes was the only place I could find that sold these panels without lining, and at an acceptable density, and I spent a LOT of time on the web, going into many stores near me.

Anything else was either lined or not dense enough.

They also seem to have changed either the packaging or the way it appears on the web page.

But £43.60 for a pack of 5 seems about right to me, bearing mind each of them is 4' x 2'

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 06:08:35 (permalink)
zippsinc


Bristol_Jonesey


It's a rigid fibre glass, similar I believe to what our American cousins call 703

If you do plan on using it, once it's in your frame, spray the front & back with a can of hairspray (1 large can per panel) to seal in the fibres, then cover with material.




Cheers Bristol_Jonesey. I didn't expect hair spray to be in the equation...lol. Is this sealing of the fibers something generally considered wise from a safety point of view? Inhalation etc.

I think I read somewhere on another forum that rigid fiberglass is tomorrow's asbestos - in relation to harmful breathable substances. Anyone else heard this?


Regards

Zipps

I'm not sure how critical this is - it's just  something I picked up on another forum somewhere. Think it might have been the John L Sayers site - which is one of the best resources around for studio construction/acoustics etc.
 
I arranged th epanels to sit inside a 4" frame, leaving me with a 2" gap behind them.
 
The back of the frame was then covered in strong brown paper, stapled to the frame.
 
A couple of holes were drilled into the top of the frame for hanging on 2 screws which were plugged into the wall.

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hairyjamie
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 10:42:14 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey


Jamie, when I was searching around for material, Wickes was the only place I could find that sold these panels without lining, and at an acceptable density, and I spent a LOT of time on the web, going into many stores near me.

Anything else was either lined or not dense enough.

They also seem to have changed either the packaging or the way it appears on the web page.

But £43.60 for a pack of 5 seems about right to me, bearing mind each of them is 4' x 2'

It looks like Wickes are coming out top in my research too Jonesy, so I'm going to plump for them.
 
All in, around £100 for ten traps is good enough for me
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wst3
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2010/04/27 13:30:25 (permalink)
Not to get too nit-picky, but Fibreglass, Rock Wool, and even open cell foam products are all porous absorbers, and as such their 'bandwidth' (co-efficient of  absorption vs frequency or wavelength) is determined, mostly, by thickness, and the efficiency of absorption is determined by the density. There is interplay there, of course, I am being overly general out of laziness!

I was quiet surprised to learn that all of them are roughly the same in terms of performance for this particular application. Really surprised<G>! The differences in performance do not, at least to me, account for the differences in price.

As Bit and Mike pointed out above, there are some real physical limits to what one can accomplish in terms of smoothing the response of a room when using porous absorbers. The effectiveness of this approach has as much to do with the room size and geometry as anything else.

That's why there are so many tools in the Acoustician's arsenal!

If you are trying this for the first time I'd make the the following suggestions (in no particular order):
1) use broadband absorption - narrow band traps can cause as many problems as they solve.
2) allow plenty of air space behind porous absorbers - the difference is significant.
3) be careful not to overdo absorption - and it is total absorption, not octave band absorption that will make a room sound dead.
4) consider that there are three main food groups at your disposal - absorption, reflection, and diffusion - use them all!
5) before you start treating the boundaries make certain that you have optimized the relationship between the loudspeakers, listener(s) and boundaries.
6) before you start treating the room for frequency response anomalies look at reflections. Remedying reflections will not solve low frequency problems, but it might make them easier to detect, and mitigate.
7) be aware that any steps taken to increase isolation (sound proofing) may have a negative effect on the rest of the room treatment process... you can't actually do anything about it, but you need to know that it is there.

-- Bill
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#38
mpgifted
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Re:Acoustic Room Treatment 2011/11/08 08:55:40 (permalink)
I agree with edentowers, I also use rockwool for basss control with very good results. I got mine from here http://www.insulationshop.co/rock_flexi_slabs_knauf_insulation_100mm.html
which was the cheapest I was able to find.

John
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