jamesg1213
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Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
A friend of mine wants to start recording himself playing acoustic guitar and singing (recording vocal and guitar at same time) Below is the set-up he's come up with. It's outside my expertise, so I thought I'd ask for your opinions, any suggestions welcome. Sorry about the blurry image, hope you can make it out OK. 
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/21 08:39:38
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That's a great start.
I doubt he'll use the ambient mic unless he has a fantastic sounding room... he might as well give it a try and find out.
I often times do the simultaneous singing and playing thing with just an XY pair.
The extra mics shown above are pretty much the standard layout.... so anything really useful will be figured out once it's set up.
The XY way I use is less picky about the particluar guitar because it's more of a near far technique that sort of provides some blending in the room... it's like a what you hear is what you get approach.
The close multi mic technique shown above is really good at capturing a particular character of the guitar... and you'll need to learn how that guitar and the mics get along. It will emphasize either good or bad things so you need to work hard up front to find sweet spot positions.
I find that if the player is good and confident that near far style gets a instantly natural and familiar tone while the close mic techniques require a lot of decision making while mixing... and the guitar will sound recorded rather than "being there"... so it has an intimate effect that is tweaked for record listening rather than to give an impression of some document of a moment in time.
It's all good... as long as your friend gets what he wants.
I think he's off to a great start.
best regards,
mike
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/21 08:54:04
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4 mikes?
I would imagine there might be some phasing issues with all those mics being hot at the same time. At least that is my first thought.
In addition, it looks like there is a direct line out of the guitar.
Conventional wisdom on acoustic guitar is one or two mics properly placed at the front. Probably 98% (I'm guessing?) of all acoustic guitars are recorded on one or two mics.... one on the soundhole/body, and the other on the neck around the 12th fret. Using one mic, in front of the guitar more centered between the soundhole and the neck... but always placed by experimenting to find the sweet spot.
On the set up shown above.... is it really necessary to get a center mic POV and a 5 to 6 feet behind the performer POV from a mic? Who, upon listening to the music "as recorded in this manner" would even notice that those 2 mics are in use?
Upon a re-read of the OP... I see the center mic is for a singer.... but it will still pick up the guitar and contribute to phase issues.
It seems like overkill to use 5 sources and begging for problems with phase between the sources.
I assume your friend has a DAW, so unless he's going for the live sound and is willing to deal with the phase issues from all those sources..... my thoughts are that a clean one or two mic guitar session, followed by a vocal only session would give the cleanest phase free recording.
But that's just my opinion..... just how I would do it.
If he absolutely got to play guitar when he sings..... I'd record a scratch track...vox/guitar, then record a clean guitar, then record the vox/guitar with the mic focused on the vocals only. Since the guitar is being picked up, but at a much lower level, there should not be phasing issues and it might add a bit of fullness to the overall sound.
There are so many ways to approach this. What it comes down to is him listening to the advice offered.... and setting up the studio and experimenting to see what actually works best for him. How I do things doesn't matter. It's how he does it to get the results he wants.
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NW Smith
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/22 10:09:53
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I agree with Guitarhacker. 4 mics might be overkill and having 3 of them so closely together could lead to phase issues. There are a lot of different factors when you're recording acoustic guitar and voice - Besides the person performing the music, the most important factor is the room. A good sounding room makes the process a lot less complicated. An ambient room mic in a decent space will definitely enhance the finished product. A couple of other things you might want to consider: If the room is carpeted, get a piece of plywood and put it on the floor below the guitar for a "livelier" sound. Another thing - what type of guitar style is the person using? Is it finger picking, flat picking, strumming? For strumming style, it's good to have some light picks on hand. You get that nice pick sweeping over the strings sound, with out the loudness of a medium or heavy pick. Keep us posted on your progress!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/22 12:00:05
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Make sure he fits a new set of strings prior to recording!
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miguelito
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/22 13:13:30
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I generally do a mic at around the 12th fret and one coming up behind me by my ear maybe a couple inches closer in to the sound hole. On some occasions I add a direct particularly if I'm thinking of adding some fx.
In the end though what mike_mccue said about it being all good as long as your friend gets what he wants is pretty much the way it is methinks.
Regards,
Mike A Roseberry racer w/ Win7 Pro (64) fully loaded RME UFX Fireface; Sonar X2; Guitars and amps. Axon 100 MKII, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, Komplete All software latest revision
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jamesg1213
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/22 14:04:56
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Thanks for the replies all, I'll pass them on to Tim. He plays quite complex finger-picked guitar, and tends to let the song 'ebb and flow', without a click, so overdubbing is problematic, hence the need to record voice and guitar simultaneously. He's done this kind of thing in a pro studio before, and the results were amazing - you could play back the vocal track and hear hardly any guitar at all, and vice-versa. So, he's trying to emulate that at home. He has a gorgeous sounding acoustic, a hand-built Brooks 'Torridge'. http://www.brookguitars.com
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/22 18:24:16
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One of my favourite techniques for miking a singer guitarist is to use two high quality condenser microphones in a figure 8 pattern. eg Neumann U87's etc. Set them up horizontally. The stands need to be set up either side of the microphones, not on the same side for this to work as well. One faces the 12 th fret position on the guitar but twist it so the vocals are going into the null of that mike. The other mike is slightly higher but twist to 90 degrees from the guitar mike so the vocals are going directly into the diaphragm and the guitar is going into the null point of that mike. This needs to be done in a deader room situation for best results. With care you can get almost no spill on these mikes eg the vocal mike will have almost no guitar present and the guitar mike will have almost no vocals present. It is the ultimate way to capture these two things if they have to be done together. No other mike technique works quite as well for separation of the two sources. The figure 8 pattern features a steep null point on the sides and you can take advantage of it to do all sorts of interesting things. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say but I have not been able to track down a suitable diagram which would clarify this a lot. I will keep looking and if I find it I will add it to this post.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2011/09/22 18:44:52
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timidi
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/22 19:10:57
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in the end, it's 5 tracks in a daw. seems to me, it just makes it more complicated. More decisions.
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IK Obi
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/23 15:10:32
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Yeah I'd stick with 2 and maybe a 3rd room mic.
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Philip
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/23 22:09:54
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+1
'learning a lot here. 2 mics that are close together is dangerous enough for me (with phase issues). And I'd definitely want 2 mics only to experiment with ... I'd begin with cardiode settings and listen for my usual hideous bleeds/phase issues.
And I'd probably *save the day* with a DI signal from the guitar to the DAW and a hyper cardiode dynamic mic for the vox (like a Shure beta or sm58)
But a drum studio expert may share excellent mic techniques and/or close mics to use here.
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Musikman
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/23 22:37:42
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Hi James, the SOS (Sound On Sound) magazine April 2010 issue has a great article covering Acoustic guitar recording techniques. You may be able to order that back issue, or it's possible that article may be unlocked on their website and you can download it or view it. They do lock some of their articles. EDIT: It's unlocked, here's the link to the whole article........ Sound On Sound Article - Recording Acoustic Guitar HTH MM
post edited by Musikman - 2011/09/23 22:43:09
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bandontherun19
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/24 00:42:46
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I would like to consider polishing my performances to that point. I "comp?" And do "it" many times... To get it as good as I can? On pretty much all parts that I "record in." Guitars, vocals, bass. Then the piano/organ/orchestra? Well that's cake :-) Because it's all midi? The one I'm doing now has a lot of acoustic percussion, and I comp'ed it, and then edited it? (timing) The concept of live performing/recording I'm afraid has gone from my memory :-( The power of the DAW is such that I can't even imagine attempting a live performance :-(
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jamesg1213
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/24 03:07:56
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Philip
And I'd probably *save the day* with a DI signal from the guitar to the DAW and a hyper cardiode dynamic mic for the vox (like a Shure beta or sm58)
See diagram... 
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jamesg1213
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Re:Acoustic guitar/vocal - mic set-up
2011/09/24 03:09:26
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Musikman
Hi James, the SOS (Sound On Sound) magazine April 2010 issue has a great article covering Acoustic guitar recording techniques. You may be able to order that back issue, or it's possible that article may be unlocked on their website and you can download it or view it. They do lock some of their articles.
EDIT: It's unlocked, here's the link to the whole article........
Sound On Sound Article - Recording Acoustic Guitar
HTH
MM
Thanks MM!
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