Helpful ReplyAdaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it?

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rodreb
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2017/06/12 03:36:39 (permalink)

Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it?

I was thrilled to get it. However, I can't get it to sound (to my ears) as good as the Concrete Limiter as my final limiter on the mix bus. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
I've tried all the presets and all the different characters. I've tried everything I could think of. If there is something anyone can suggest that I may be missing, I'd appreciate it. In the meantime, I'm still using the Concrete Limiter. I just had hopes that this new one would be even better than what I have.
As a side note, in the past I have used Waves L2, Sonnox Oxford Limiter, Limiter #6, etc. I personally like the Concrete Limiter better.
Maybe it's just me. 
 



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#1
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 11:18:25 (permalink)
Rod, could you elaborate on what you mean by "sounding good"?
 
I know certain Limiters will impart a certain sonic signature, but by and large, you should not really be able to hear a lot of difference between them as their job is to simply limit the signal with as much transparency as possible.
 
Maybe, the Concrete Limiter isn't as transparent as the Adaptive Limiter and this is what you're hearing.

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Sidroe
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 11:38:10 (permalink)
I have found that Adaptive is extremely transparent!! It's almost like it's not even there other than really cranking the mix volume. There is a little more coloration to my ear with the "pumping" setting. That setting seems to replicate the sound of Concrete. I have always noticed a bit of pumping and in extreme settings on the threshold, a very crunchy to distorted sound with CL. I have a friend of mine who has multiple gold and platinum albums hung on his wall for his work in the early seventies. I master for him all the time using Sonar and he always prefers for me to absolutely POUND the CL on the threshold!!! The results for him is always bordering on distortion and pumping. To me, the resulting sound has NO dynamics at all. I tried getting him to use Adaptive instead and his comment was that he didn't hear any of the character in the master that he prefers in CL. To each his own. I have switched for now to Adaptive simply for the transparency and the dynamics do seem to stay intact.
CL still will find a use, I am sure. It has been my goto for as long as it has been around. Adaptive is going to be hard to beat!! Especially, at the price!

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BlixYZ
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 15:13:55 (permalink)
Not sold on it yet.
1st time I tried to use it I found it rumbly and distorted.  I tried several presets.
Used it last night and it was transparent, but I barely added any additional gain.
I'm hoping more chime in with their experience.

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bitflipper
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 15:32:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2017/06/12 18:27:29
It might depend on what you expect to get out of a limiter. If you expect to squash the dickens out of your mix, pull up the RMS average to -3 dB, make it pump & breathe -- and still be able to make out the transients, that's asking an awful lot from a plugin. Better to use one that's designed expressly for that purpose.
 
OTOH, if you use limiters for safety and modest volume increases, AL does do that quite well. However, if you fall into that category chances are you won't hear huge differences between any two limiters of comparable quality.
 
Which type of limiter user are you, Rod? On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being "who needs a limiter?" and 10 being "my perfect waveform is a brick".


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Zargg
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 15:53:52 (permalink)
Hi. I like this a lot. Nice GUI, an easy to use. Transparent when needed, and pumping and aggressive when called for.
I use it on instruments / parallel processing, as well as on bus duty. Like everything, it's how you use it 
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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mrpippy2
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 18:00:22 (permalink)
I've seen references in this and other threads to applying a limiter to individual busses. I assume this is in addition to the limiting applied to the master bus. Could someone elaborate on why this is done? I can't wrap my head around why I would want or need to limit (for instance) the guitars or drums TWICE. Thanks in advance for any feedback!

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#7
Starise
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 18:43:37 (permalink)
If you record a drum track that tests the limits of the 0bd ceiling while the rest of the mix barely makes 6db then you might need some control compression or limiting on that track. If the kit is split into multiple tracks, then you have more control. Could be an extra loud snare drum. Putting a limiter on that track can help bring the mix into better focus. I just used drums as an example, It could be anything really. I wouldn't use a limiter as a first response. I might try EQ and volume first. If I couldn't tame it I might try a limiter set very low.
 
If tracks or buses are individually limited through buses you can use different types of limiters for different material in the same song. When it comes to mastering stage you shouldn't need very much limiting at that point. 
 
This is only one example. I most commonly use track limiting on guitars recorded with a lot of snap, drums that overwhelm the mix or bass. It's usually a last resort for me. I'm more likely to use a dynamic compressor or side chain into a compressor.
 
I don't want to kill my parts. I only want to tame the more aggressive places. Over using EQ can kill the interesting frequencies in a track.

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#8
gswitz
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 19:04:47 (permalink)
I used it the other day and was pleased.

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jb101
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/12 23:44:35 (permalink)
Loving the Adaptive Limiter here.  I will still use th concrete limiter in certain circumstnces - it does do a great job of "bringing up the room" on drum parts, and the bass switch is very useful.
 
In response to some of the comments above, it is important to check your levels going into a limiter.
 
If your mix is already at -0.1db, you will get a very different response from a limiter than if your mix is at, eg. (random figure) -6.0db.
 
Make sure you leave enough headroom to play with.

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rodreb
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/14 05:04:27 (permalink)
I typically try to get my mixes around -12 db avg. with a few peaks around -6 db. Then I put on the Concrete Limiter set to -.01 db out. I bring the threshold down til I get between 2 to 6 db of gain reduction max. This tends to give me a nice, healthy level but, still retain a decent amount of dynamics. When I try this with the adaptive limiter it doesn't sound as loud and, I hear distortion in the affected peaks.
I do like the Adaptive Limiter's layout and GUI. I like that it has LUFS and K System metering. I really want to love it but, it's just not happening. Maybe I need to change my method? 
bitflipper - On your scale of 1 to 10, I'd probably identify as a 5 or 6.
 
post edited by rodreb - 2017/06/14 22:25:08



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#11
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/15 00:19:24 (permalink)
I think transparent limiter are supposed to inflate the sound like a compressor If you want harmonics then use a maximiser with limiting in the same process like Sonnox limiter.

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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/15 00:48:56 (permalink)
I've used AL both for mastering and mixing and here are my results.
 
For mastering, this is maybe the best limiter I have.  It works as advertised with as much or as little transparency as you want.  However, for mixing a different story.  I set the look ahead to minimum and inserted it on two tracks in a  song with two acoustic instruments and one instance of Rapture Pro and one instance of Z3ta +2.  The latency on my converter was set to 256 samples which typically is more than enough for 4 tracks, but I got dropouts galore, and my CPU meters were jumping all over the place.  I replace AL with Waves L1 Ultramaximizer and the problems disappeared.  I repeated this procedure several time with the same results.
 
For now, I'll stick to using it for mastering, and I'll wait to see if any changes are made to it before using it in mixing.

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noynekker
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/15 01:35:42 (permalink)
I did a sort of test by substituting the Adaptive Limiter into a project on my desktop computer where I used the PC Concrete Limiter, and quite liked the result. I really like the GUI, and it sounds great, I played with the presets and see them as being very useful. However . . . when I moved the project to my Laptop to add some mobile recording to the project, the Adaptive Limiter was all distorted, pinned in the red, sounding awful ! If I bypass Adaptive Limiter, all is well again . . . went back to Concrete Limiter.
 
Now I'm thinking it uses up a lot more CPU resource that my Laptop just doesn't have, though every other project I have moved to my Laptop has not had any issues like this. (similar cpu, same amount of ram, similar USB audio interface settings)
 
Actually, when I examine the Adaptive Limiter settings I used . . . I used "Drum Bus Aggressive" preset, with lookahead set to "medium" . . . so clearly that will use more resources than the Concrete Limiter would.
 
So , like others have stated, I may have to use the resource hungry settings only in a Mastering setting, not as a plugin in a project ?  . . . though, it's hard to predict what settings will push my Laptop over the ledge.

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#14
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/15 13:59:05 (permalink)
noynekker,
 
It's possible that what you are experiencing with your laptop was the known issue with the adaptive limiter and the 64-bit double precision engine. Review your Preferences/audio/driver settings. If the DPE is checked, uncheck it and see if that removes the symptoms. There was a thread two weeks ago regarding this, with the subject "Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator".
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Lynn
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/15 16:51:22 (permalink)
ptheisen
noynekker,
 
It's possible that what you are experiencing with your laptop was the known issue with the adaptive limiter and the 64-bit double precision engine. Review your Preferences/audio/driver settings. If the DPE is checked, uncheck it and see if that removes the symptoms. There was a thread two weeks ago regarding this, with the subject "Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator".


I discovered that my DPE was checked, so I unchecked it, put the AL back into my project, and now it is working fine!  Good tip!!  I await the day that AL works with the DPE engaged.

All the best,
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noynekker
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/16 01:36:05 (permalink)
ptheisen
noynekker,
 
It's possible that what you are experiencing with your laptop was the known issue with the adaptive limiter and the 64-bit double precision engine. Review your Preferences/audio/driver settings. If the DPE is checked, uncheck it and see if that removes the symptoms. There was a thread two weeks ago regarding this, with the subject "Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator".


Thanks so much for the tip, but turning off DPE in my audio settings didn't fix my laptop issue, though it does seem it help a bit. Also, tried turning "lookahead" setting to low, and that didn't help.
I'm going to look further into my laptop audio interface, I think there's something going on there.

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#17
rodreb
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/17 17:13:21 (permalink)
Tried the AL on a vocal track and, it worked very well there. 



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#18
interpolated
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/17 22:21:08 (permalink)
I find myself going back to UAD Precision Limiter as I feel confident, the results are going to be good. Ozone has a really good limiting stage although in my opinion it can be overwhelming having all your dynamic tools in the one interface (at least until you master *rimshot* their potential).
 
But anyway, I like LUFS unit part of the meter stage. It would really useful to have a modular LUFS reading which can be viewed from the Control Bar. This way you could ascertain how much adjustment is needed without jumping into the scrolling transient display everytime.
 

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rodreb
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/17 22:26:45 (permalink)
interpolated - I agree. A nice meter with vu, LUFS, peak, K, crest, etc. all in one would be awesome.



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#20
Paul G
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/18 21:52:09 (permalink)
I used the AL last night in place of the CL with one of the 'Dynamic' presets and adjusted the settings to match what I use with the CL and I must say, I was pleased.  It seemed to sound smoother.
 
I did experience one issue though.  During export, the GUI did some strange ghosting.  Is that normal or is there something wrong with my graphics?  Anyone else seen this?  Nvidia GeForce GT 730.
 
Thanks.
 
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noynekker
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/19 03:37:31 (permalink)
The more I use this new Adaptive Limiter, the more I'm inclined to not trust it as a VST channel plugin.
This afternoon I ran into problems using it as a drum track limiter. I have a few limiters that I mainly use . . . Sonar Concrete Prochannel limiter or Ozone 7 Maximizer limiter. When substituting Sonar's new Adaptive Limiter there are issues with exporting a mix (I'm not using fast bounce) . . . such that when using it with BFD3 VST3 drums, I get snares, toms and crashes randomly disappearing from the exported audio mix. (I've even tried freezing the drum tracks before export, and it still occurs . . . and it seems the Adaptive Limiter sometimes doesn't even engage when freezing the drum tracks . . . kind of weird)
 
Too bad, because I've noticed the Adaptive Limiter sounds better, smoother, but I can't live with the unpredictable mix export for my BFD3 drums. When I switch back to either the Concrete Limiter or Ozone Maximizer the random dropouts don't happen, just doesn't sound as great. Anyone else using BFD3 notice this ?

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#22
jackson white
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/19 15:49:50 (permalink)
noynekker
Anyone else using BFD3 notice this ?



Not yet, but still checking the AL out. Master Bus only so far, Adaptive mode, Threshold usually high enough to avoid much limiting. BFD3, fast bounce without freeze.
 
Do you see the same problem when exporting just the drum/BFD3 tracks?
 
Are they random hits on every export or the same ones?
 
Are they all "sharp/fast" transients?
 
 
 
 

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LJB
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/19 19:07:04 (permalink)
I'm a bit spoiled with things like Ozone, but the plug seems nice enough. I still think Concrete Limiter is the beez kneez though.

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mmarton
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/20 18:13:27 (permalink)
I wouldn't normally use a limiter in mixing but tried the AL on a drum bus for a new song I'm working on last night starting with the Dynamic Drums preset.  Sounded great.  I haven't tried concrete limiter but it never really interested me since I have FF.  When I go to master I'll be A-B'ing AL with Pro-L heavily.  I'd be pretty impressed if AL was as good but early indications are that it is...

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#25
LLyons
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/20 21:36:40 (permalink)
I used it for the first time, adaptive.  On drum buss, worked nicely.  Pressed it pretty hard - enough that I was getting more room sound out of the room mics.   Unless I'm going for a room sound,  I get to that point and stop then back it off a tad.   Its subjective, but I liked it.      
 
Tried it side by side with waves 316 on a master project.  Country.  Many tracks, very dynamic, many different instruments.  Not bad at all.  I liked hearing the affect of MP3 a bunch.  Nice idea.  However, the 316 won out.   I will be using AL on mixes, but not on mastering yet.  I will give it a try on a source with less detail and see where that takes me.   
 
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#26
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/21 14:12:09 (permalink)
Just tried it out...very nice on the master bus.
 
JR

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Sonar Platypus,  Octa Capture, BFD2 & Jamstix3, Komplete 10 and Komplete Kontrol
Win 10 64 
SLS PS8R Monitors and KRK Ergo
https://soundcloud.com/airportface
#27
Steve_Karl
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  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/21 16:57:32 (permalink)
bitflipper
and 10 being "my perfect waveform is a brick".



OMG ... that's funny~!

Steve Karl
https://soundcloud.com/steve_karl
SPLAT 2017.01
#28
neverwhere2410
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/22 01:53:19 (permalink)
Only used it a handful of times, but the metering is very useful.  Also works great on busses and individual tracks. 
#29
g_randybrown
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Re: Adaptive Limiter - What's everybody think of it? 2017/06/23 21:46:52 (permalink)
I just upgraded from X3 to Platinum and I'm not seeing Adaptive Limiter when I click on "add module" in the Pro Channel.
I'm also not seeing some of my 3rd party modules...how can I add them to this drop down and remove the ones I never use?
 
Thanks,
R

G. Randy Brown 
Windows 10, 64 bit, Platinum
Intel Core i7-3770S
Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo   
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Presonus AudioBox 22VSL
youtube.com/crystalclearnm
#30
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