Addictive Drums Latency

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afatica
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2015/07/27 12:02:00 (permalink)

Addictive Drums Latency

Hello all, I am having latency issues using AD2.  When I use my Motif or QSR there is no latency when recording midi.  However, when I try to record or play AD2, there is a delay between when I hit the note and the time the sound comes out.  I tried going into record to see if I just needed to be in record mode but there was no change.
Any help would be appreciated.
I did a recording last week with no such issues, but now something has changed
 
Thanks,
Art

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#1

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    Beagle
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 13:26:45 (permalink)
    What exactly do you mean by "when I try to record or play AD2"? 
     
    what are you using to trigger the sounds so that you're getting latency?
     
    I also don't understand what you mean by trying to "go into record to see if needed to be in record mode."
     
     
    if you're trying to record the output of AD2 by arming a track and trying to click on AD2's interface, that won't work.  none of the drum software is designed to be recording a triggered audition (clicking on the kit pieces are for auditioning sounds only).
     
    you said you don't have latency recording MIDI using your motif, but you do when trying to record AD2 - but you didn't say HOW you're triggering AD2 - it is also triggered by MIDI, so you need a MIDI controller of some kind to trigger the kit sounds, or you need to use premade MIDI loops, or you can create them yourself in PRV.  but it's not clear what you're trying to do from your description.

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    #2
    afatica
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 14:34:37 (permalink)
    To be more clear, whenever I try to trigger AD2 using my Motif keyboard which is what I always use to create midi tracks, the sound coming out of Sonar is delayed, latency. When I use the Motif keyboard to trigger notes or sounds out of the Motif or QSR, there is no delay in hearing the note. This holds true whether I am recording the note or just playing the notes to figure out what I want to record.
    So, hardware synth are fine, soft synth produce a delayed sound.
    Thanks,
    Art

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    #3
    afatica
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 14:37:26 (permalink)
    And when I say trying to record, I thought perhaps that if I were actually recording the midi notes, perhaps the delay issue would be resolved in that mode, but it makes no difference whether I just play the midi notes or play them while trying to also record the midi notes.

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    #4
    Lynn
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 14:42:14 (permalink)
    This sounds like a latency issue with your sound card.  Try lowering the latencey to 256k or 128k to see if it continues.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    #5
    Beagle
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 14:44:24 (permalink)
    afatica
    To be more clear, whenever I try to trigger AD2 using my Motif keyboard which is what I always use to create midi tracks, the sound coming out of Sonar is delayed, latency. When I use the Motif keyboard to trigger notes or sounds out of the Motif or QSR, there is no delay in hearing the note. This holds true whether I am recording the note or just playing the notes to figure out what I want to record.
    So, hardware synth are fine, soft synth produce a delayed sound.
    Thanks,
    Art

    ok, that is very important - sounds coming directly from the motif are AUDIO direct out from the LINE outputs, using MIDI to trigger a softsynth (drums in this case) require going through the soundcard, converting to digital, into the computer, into sonar and then back to the soundcard converting back to analog from digital so you can hear it.
     
    this is based on several things, but the main thing you need to control is the buffers used by your soundcard.  using a focusrite sapphire pro you SHOULD be able to reduce your buffers in the focusrite audio settings to 64 or 128 buffers which should give you around 15msec round trip latency, which is not sufficient to cause you problems between when you touch a note on the motif and when you hear it.
     
    reduce your hardware buffers in the focusrite software.  you can do this by clicking on the ASIO button in the audio soundcard (in PREFERENCES in SONAR) or if you've exited Sonar, you can pull the focusrite software up directly.
     
    and just to address your last post, no it does not matter if you're trying to record the MIDI or simply play it directly without recording, the latency will still be there.  you need to adjust your soundcard buffers in order to minimize it.

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    #6
    afatica
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 14:53:22 (permalink)
    Thanks, I will try this. I did try to reduce the buffer in the Sapphire software but then I got a message from Sonar that the audio engine dropped out, but I will try again or make the change in Sonar itself.
    Thanks,
    Art

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    #7
    Beagle
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 15:11:31 (permalink)
    afatica
    Thanks, I will try this. I did try to reduce the buffer in the Sapphire software but then I got a message from Sonar that the audio engine dropped out, but I will try again or make the change in Sonar itself.
    Thanks,
    Art

    it's possible that your computer cannot handle low latencies.  if setting the buffers at 128 causes dropouts, (higher than that will start to be too high for softsynth monitoring) then you'll have to start troubleshooting your computer for high or spiking DPC latencies.

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    #8
    afatica
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 15:41:10 (permalink)
    Thanks, the only thing that makes me think the computer is OK is that I was able to finish a project last week with AD2 with no latency issues. I saved that file as a template but now I am having the latency issues.
    Thanks,
    Art

    Sonar Platinum, Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Quad core i7, 2TB hybrid HD, 500GB SSD, 16 GB ram, Sound Forge Pro 11, Motif 6, Alesis QSR, Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 firewire, Eureka mic pre, ART mic pre, 2 CAD lg diaphragm mics, Rode NT2A, various other mics, 71 LP Deluxe, 79 ES-335 CRR, Taylor 314ce, Vox AC4, Egnater Tweaker 15, a bunch of other goodies. 
    #9
    Beagle
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 16:12:34 (permalink)
    afatica
    Thanks, the only thing that makes me think the computer is OK is that I was able to finish a project last week with AD2 with no latency issues. I saved that file as a template but now I am having the latency issues.
    Thanks,
    Art

    then it's likely something which has changed since last week.  that could be some USB device you added since then, or possibly something which has started pulling more current on the USB bus, or a driver has been updated which might not be as efficient as the prior driver with respect to DPC.

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    #10
    stickman393
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 16:13:53 (permalink)
    Disable FX in the DAW. Does the latency go away?
     
    Do you have a CPU-intensive plugin on the master bus? Try disabling it.
    #11
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 21:15:01 (permalink)
    +1 to last post , when I saw the thread title this is always the first recommendation. There are certain plug ins that will cause midi triggering delay, LP 64 for sure. 
    Always by pass your effexts befor tracking and overdubs. 

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    #12
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 22:08:19 (permalink)
    Just curious - are you sure you have the driver mode set in Sonar to be ASIO?
     
    And, you don't have ASIO4ALL installed on the computer?
     
    With your ASIO Buffer Size set to 128 for the audio interface in ASIO mode, what are the Sonar-reported latency values, as shown in Preferences?
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #13
    shmuelyosef
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/27 22:22:12 (permalink)
    afatica
    Thanks, I will try this. I did try to reduce the buffer in the Sapphire software but then I got a message from Sonar that the audio engine dropped out, but I will try again or make the change in Sonar itself.
    Thanks,
    Art

    Yes, this is the way it's supposed to work. You can't change buffer size "on the fly". I have a saffire pro40 and my process is 1. stop the audio engine using the toolbar button. 2. use the Saffire app to change the buffer size. 3. restart the audio engine with the toolbar button. 
     
    set it to 64 or 128 and you should have no trouble tracking live. I use both Roland V-drums and a MIDI controller all the time with Addictive Drums and Addictive Keys.
     
    Make sure that you reset the buffer size to 512 or 1024 when time comes to mix, or you will have trouble if you add a lot of effects and other processing. 
     
    Also, while you are testing, open Addictive Drums as standalone and close SONAR.  See if you can play it without latency with the correct ASIO drivers, etc...
     
    jeff

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    #14
    dmaine2
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/07/28 21:51:35 (permalink)
    I was having some latency issues, so I changed my ASIO device to 128. But then I was getting pops and clicks while just playing VIs, recording and when playing them back. I increased the buffers inside Sonar as was recommended on Cakewalk online, but that didn't stop the popping and clicking. I've gone up to 256 on the ASIO now and it seems to be the best I can do. Minimal if any pops, and latency seems to be ok so far.
     
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    #15
    afatica
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/08/03 11:38:03 (permalink)
    Thanks for all your help.  I have tried some of these fixes and I will try others, but I am finding that all of the soft synths have the same latency issue.  While my hard synths like the Motif 6 works perfectly.  Maybe I will just use the sounds I have on my hard synths.
    Thanks,
    Art

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    #16
    brundlefly
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    Re: Addictive Drums Latency 2015/08/03 12:31:38 (permalink)
    I'm guessing you're direct-monitoring the hardware synths so they are not affected by your audio interface's latency.
     
    As suggested already, you'll want to have your ASIO buffer at 128 sample or less and ensure there are no PDC-inducing plugins in the project to get latency down where it's not noticeable.
     
    Soft synths are only affected by MIDI input and audio outbound latency, so they will have less latency than an input-monitored hardware synth being driven by live input-echoed MIDI, which will be subject to the full round-trip latency of both systems plus the response delay of the synth. But even that should not be bothersome with 128-sample ASIO buffer unless your interface has a lot of converter/firmware/driver/bus latency on top of the buffer latency.
     
     

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