Helpful ReplyAdding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage?

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AdamGrossmanLG
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2017/04/18 18:36:27 (permalink)

Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage?

Hello,
 
I am pretty new to the mixing side of things and have a general question.   I setup a reverb FX bus and sending a bunch of percussive instruments to them.  I notice that it raises the volume of the entire track (this is obvious as you still have your dry signal and your wet signal).  

I understand I can use the "pre fader" option and turn down the volume on the track, but then the effect is too wet.  I like the mix of them together (like a parallel mix).
 
Basically I am just turning down the gain of each track to make up for this (so this way it hits both the dry and the FX bus evenly).
 
Am I going about this properly?

Also, another side note question:  where do I route FX busses too?  I cant pipe them to the percussion buss because I have some other synths and stuff going there too.   Should FX just go right to the master bus?
 
Thank You!
#1
Sanderxpander
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 18:43:25 (permalink)
If you have your reverb inserted in a bus it should be 100 percent wet. The send on your tracks should be post fader, not pre fader, for the most intuitive behavior. While increasing the send level will add some volume, it will be only reverb that is added.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 18:59:51 (permalink)
It really should not add extra level if set up properly, at least that never happens for me. 
As said the effects in the Buss bin should be 100% wet. I leave the buss at unity and then it's a simple matter of turning up the track send until the desired amount of effect is heard. This is never much more than the send knob at 9-10 O'clock. 

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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 19:27:44 (permalink)
hmmm.. does it matter if the FX is placed in the FX bin or the prochannel on the FX Bus?
 
How could it NOT add volume?   You have your dry signal say at -10db, but then if you add reverb, wouldnt it pile on top of the initial transient?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 19:45:56 (permalink)
Totally agree with the above guys - make sure your Reverb is set to 100% or kill the dry element if there is one.
 
No, it makes no difference if the reverb is in the Fx bin or the Pro Channel.
 
Which reverb are you using? Some of them can be a little quirky and need setting up properly.
 
If it really is adding too much volume then it *sounds* like there's some dry signal getting into the path.
 
Where are the outputs of the percussion tracks routed to?

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 19:47:54 (permalink)
Reverb will itself obviously add volume to the total, but if set up properly it should add a sense of space, not an increased source.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 20:21:17 (permalink)
I know a lot of folks swear by using reverb and other effects 100% wet (in conjunction with a send).
I don't, even on analog gear I never followed that rule. don't get me wrong there are times I do but I have never lived by the rule where "It should always be set to 100%".
Sometimes by pulling it back to 75-80% you can allow longer decay times and it wont be so over powering.
 

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#7
Sanderxpander
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 20:26:50 (permalink)
I'm not sure I get that. That should be the same as simply adding less send level (or reverb bus level) and more source level...?
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 21:38:52 (permalink)
where do you guys route FX busses too?  I cant pipe them to the percussion buss because I have some other synths and stuff going there too.   Should FX just go right to the master bus?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/18 21:43:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby AdamGrossmanLG 2017/04/19 01:11:11
Yes, Fx to Master Buss
 
Tracks > Output > Sub Busses (Guitars, keys , Vox etc)
Sub Busses > Output > Master Buss
 
Track Sends > Fx busses
Fx busses > Output > Master buss
 
So everything ends up at the MB
Only sends get routed to Fx busses (for now )
All buss outputs > MB

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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/19 01:11:20 (permalink)
very helpful. thank you!
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Cactus Music
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/19 01:24:50 (permalink)
Are you putting the effect on it's own buss , like where the master buss is, the buss pane. It seems you are saying you are putting it in the track effects bin? 
 
Chuck with hardware effects for sure you would never run 100%, but with our routing in Sonar if you don't then you are adding dry signal back to the output so that is not a good idea. You run 100% wet to optimise the effects buss. Otherwise you will increase the level. 

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#12
Kamikaze
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/19 05:04:43 (permalink)
FX from sends on their own FX Buss on 100%wet for me, in Sonar and in the past, on Hardware. 
 
Post fader so the fx level is proportionate to the dry signal.
 

 
#13
taccess
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Re: Adding Sends Adds Volume - How To Manage? 2017/04/20 03:56:59 (permalink)
Adding A Send will increase the db in the mix
:Below does not include the many different ways you can use a send , below is just a basic understanding :
1) With a drum sample on loop > master is 0db
PRE
2) If you add a Pre Send from track 1 to aux 1 > the master will become 6db ( increase of 6db )
### if you choose to compensate you need to turn the track level down -6b  + either the send level or destination track fader for the mix to become 0db again .
Now taking into account you just did ### and now you add a second pre send from track 1 to aux 4 the mix will increase 6db again however this time to bring the mix to 0db you need to turn the track 1 fader down an additional -3.5db ( so track 1 fader is now -9.5db) and both pre send levels or destination track faders ( aux 1 + 4) to -9.5db total.
NOTE:this amount continues to change and is not the same  as you add more sends to a track .
example when adding that second pre send if you minus the send level back -6b you will see the mix has increased by 3.5db , which is why to bring the mix back to 0db 3 faders need to be pulled back -9.5db total.
 
pre send 1 adds 6db
pre send 2 adds 3.5db
pre send 3 adds 1.9db
this is taking into account your pulling each one back as your adding them > and those values change less rapidly from there
 
POST
3) If you add a post send from track 2 to aux 2> the master will increase 6db
*** if you choose to compensate you need to turn the" track level down Only" -6b  for the mix to become 0db again .
now taking into account you just did *** and now  you add a second post send from track 2 to aux 3 > the master will increase 3.5 db > to compensate you can either turn the track fader down -3.5 db ( so now the track fader sits at -9.5db ) or ( depending on how you use these 2 sends ) leave track 2 fader at -6db and turn both post sends levels or destination track faders down -6db . Either one will bring the mix back to 0db.
:this amount continues to change as you add more sends to a track .
 
Hope this helps
 
Does anyone know if there's a way to change multiple send levels at once ??

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