Helpful ReplyAdding an SSD. How to get the most from it?

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Billy86
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2017/12/04 01:01:49 (permalink)

Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it?

If I add an SSD, do I have to move my OS (Windows 10) to it and my DAW software and its related files? I'm not hugely techie, so I'm not quite sure how to go about adding an SSD to take advantage of the processing speed.

Thanks. Carry on!

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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noynekker
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 01:34:56 (permalink)
You will need software to clone your OS to your new SSD (eg. Macrium, Acronis)
Then your OS is very snappy and boot up time very quick etc . . .
If it's a really large SSD (over 500GB) and you have a lot of large sample libraries, you might find the advantage of putting samples there, then loading the libraries will be much quicker for opening projects. There's no huge advantage to having your project files on an SSD.

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Genghis
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 01:40:26 (permalink)
I recently did the upgrade myself to a Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB drive. It came with the software to clone my old hard drive, and it was a pretty easy, painless process.  After I did it I realized I was really only using about 300GB on the boot drive, so I partitioned it using a utility called EaseUS to a little over 400GB for  boot drive and the rest for samples.  I copied my Superior Drummer 3 libraries over to that partition so that it loads faster.

They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
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bitman
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 02:01:11 (permalink)
Put stuff on it.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 03:46:02 (permalink)
I don't think partitioning a drive will improve speed. Your still using the same buss. The only reason for a partition is you could say re do the OS C partition and it would not change or delete the content in the DATA partition. 
 
I just re did my DAW last night with a Samsung Evo pro. I used a 250 GB black friday special  $100. new egg. 
 
All is up and running smooth again REAL FAST. My old SSD also a Samsung Evo was 3 years old, I think they slow down over time. Anyhow boot time less than 10 seconds now. I didn't realize how bogged down my DAW had become..
And for that reason I believe in a fresh start as apposed to cloning. Cloning is fast but it also brings back all the garbage that gets stashed. To me the speed you gain is worth the time. 
 
I started after dinner last night. By bedtime everything was up and running. 
I used my Windows 8.1 disk so no more W10 update blues for me. It took about an hour to finish updating so I was working on my other computer and keeping one eye on things through all this. 
First I installed my Scarlett  ASIO drivers and disabled all on board audio. 
Tweaked a few Windows settings.
I then installed CCC and transferred all my files from my back up drive to the download folder. 
This makes installing Sonar and all content go super fast. I think I was done in less than an hour. 
Then I dealt with my XLN and Pace installers and installed AD2 and all my Air VST's and Plugs. 
I put everything in the new C drive because it will only ever be used for Music.
It's sitting at 80 GB and 36 of that is my Air content.
All my working projects are on a second SSD. Then I have a 1 TB 7200 RPM Data drive for back up and archiving. 
 
This morning I installed Wave Lab, Gold Wave and Nero and the drivers for my Rland A 49 and DTX 450 drums. 
That's it, nice clean machine. Ran Sonar for an hour so far and only glitch is I can't remember how to get rid of the start screen. And so far no more NAG screen from XLN. 
 
 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
My Sonar Tutorial on using MIDI
http://www.cactusmusic.ca/Sonarmidi.htm
 
 
#5
Genghis
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 04:11:41 (permalink)
To clarify, my only reason for partitioning is so that when i image my boot drive I'm not also backing up 300 or more GB of samples for not good reason.

They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
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bitflipper
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 16:42:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bodhi65 2017/12/21 12:20:58
When I ordered my latest computer, I specified two 1TB conventional drives and one 500 GB SSD, which I had intended to use for sample libraries. However, when the computer arrived they'd ignored my instructions and made the SSD the system drive. So the first thing I did was to reconfigure it to the way I'd intended.
 
However, after having had the SSD as the boot drive for just one week, I was dismayed by the performance of the conventional drive and moved the SSD back to being the O/S drive. I'd been spoiled that quickly by 5-second boot times! So even though 500 GB was much larger than I needed for the O/S, I put it back and vowed to add a second SSD for samples. I haven't done it yet; still waiting for 1TB SSDs to come down a little in price.
 
My plan, once I've acquired the second SSD, is to duplicate (rather than move) my samples to it. That way, existing projects can continue to reference the old drive while new projects can benefit from the SSD. Keeping the old sample tree in place also assures a hot backup just in case there's an issue with the SSD. Of course, I'll also keep my 3 TB external drive that contains copies of all the virtual instruments as well as projects and an Acronis image of the whole system.
 
What I didn't want to do is use the SSD as my paging device (which would reduce its lifespan), so I moved paging to the conventional drives, splitting it between the two. I have enough RAM (16 GB) that paging overhead doesn't have much impact on overall performance.
 
Another thing I did was to move all my Cakewalk samples off the C: drive onto conventional drive D:. These I implemented via symbolic links, in order to avoid having to reconfigure or reinstall any of the Cakewalk instruments. This step wasn't really necessary, since I have plenty of space on the SSD, but I wanted all samples in one place for ease of backup.
 
Regarding partitioning, I don't know this for a fact but I suspect that SSDs may not suffer the performance reduction seen after partitioning conventional drives. That's because partitioning a drive increases average mechanical seek times, and SSDs do not have read/write heads.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#7
Cactus Music
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 16:55:39 (permalink)
What I read was the speed is limited by the SATA conection so 2 physical drives will perform faster than a partitioned drive because they don't share a SATA port. ANd I do beleieve different Mobo's have different set ups for those SATA ports.. mine has  2 regular and 4 marked Express?   I find the SSD are just plain fast and copying files between a SSD and a USB 3 external drive is  amazingingly fast. No more going and make coffee when transfering 30 GB. 

Johnny V  
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#8
gswitz
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 17:13:04 (permalink)
Linked directories is the way to go.

You move your folders you want to be fast to the ssd and leave a link behind in the old location.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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DrLumen
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 18:17:45 (permalink)
Cactus Music, having HDD's on different channels definitely helps. If there are multiple accesses going on one is not having to wait for the drive head having to seek and reseek within the same drive. Plus, it also gives 2 or more parallel data channels.
 
With SSD's, I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference but having the ability for multiple parallel random accesses can't hurt. I have a 500gb SSD for the OS and program files and a 250gb SSD for the windows swap file, temp files plus some other shtuff. Unzipping to and from SSD's is crazy fast.
 
Then, there are the 20TB of HDD's for everything else.

-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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Billy86
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 20:43:02 (permalink)
Genghis
I recently did the upgrade myself to a Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB drive. It came with the software to clone my old hard drive, and it was a pretty easy, painless process.  After I did it I realized I was really only using about 300GB on the boot drive, so I partitioned it using a utility called EaseUS to a little over 400GB for  boot drive and the rest for samples.  I copied my Superior Drummer 3 libraries over to that partition so that it loads faster.


Thanks for this referral. I snooped around and found an 850 EVO SSD that I'm thinking of getting. It's a 250 GB mSata. And, yep, Samsung page talks about the cloning software that does all the work under the hood. I've read a clean install is the best, but I'm not sure I want to get into all that. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience with the Samsung SSD. 

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
#11
Billy86
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 20:52:19 (permalink)
Thanks everyone for weighing in! I've got a better understanding now....
 
So, I'm looking at a 250GB SSD, which isn't mammoth, but should work if I have the right file management. Sample libraries can get huge. Can I keep them on the slower HDD and still get the speed advantage in Sonar if my OS (Windows 10/64) and Sonar are on the SSD? 
 
What I'm not clear on is what files should go where, given the option of a limited-size SSD and a companion, larger, HDD. For example, samples (which can be large libraries) "load" into Sonar and VSTi's, right? They aren't streaming, where throughput is crucial, right? I can live with the samples loading slower, if that's the trade-off of having them on the slower HDD, instead of hogging space on the faster, size-limited SDD.
 
I'm trying to get the fastest, most robust, performing CPU I can get for Sonar. 
 
Thanks!
 
 

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
#12
tlw
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 21:18:24 (permalink)
Some sample libraries are streamed off the disk rather than being loaded into RAM, unless you've a huge amount of RAM. Even then the instrument's software may be coded to stream samples from disk anyway.

As for partitioning, it can have beneficial effects on an HDD under some circumstances. The "classic" one being to partition an HDD into at least two partitions, with the first one created being used for audio spooling. This makes a difference because the first partition will be using the outer section of the disk platters and, since the outer edge of a spinning disk has the highest angular rotation speed, data on it passes through the disk heads faster than that towards the centre of the disk. The speed reduction as data is read/written nearer the physical centre of the disk difference is quite significant

Which means you get the fastest sequential read/write speed out of the "outside" partition of an HDD. The downside is marginally slower seek times but when streaming big audio files the faster read/write pays off.

All of which is irrelevant to SSDs. The only benefit of partitioning them is to make organising your data easier.

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Kev999
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 21:45:59 (permalink)
Genghis
I recently did the upgrade myself to a Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB drive. It came with the software to clone my old hard drive, and it was a pretty easy, painless process.  After I did it I realized I was really only using about 300GB on the boot drive, so I partitioned it using a utility called EaseUS to a little over 400GB for  boot drive and the rest for samples.  I copied my Superior Drummer 3 libraries over to that partition so that it loads faster.

 
In your case, two smaller SSDs would have been better than one single large one.

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Billy86
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 22:19:29 (permalink)
Kev999
Genghis
I recently did the upgrade myself to a Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB drive. It came with the software to clone my old hard drive, and it was a pretty easy, painless process.  After I did it I realized I was really only using about 300GB on the boot drive, so I partitioned it using a utility called EaseUS to a little over 400GB for  boot drive and the rest for samples.  I copied my Superior Drummer 3 libraries over to that partition so that it loads faster.

 
In your case, two smaller SSDs would have been better than one single large one.




Haven't pulled the trigger on any SSD yet. In fact, I'm already eyeing the 500GB, instead of 250. The more Sonar-related files (audio, sample data, etc.) I can keep on the SSD the better the results of having an SSD running Sonar, is that correct? 
 
 

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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Cactus Music
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/04 22:28:36 (permalink)
If you have been having issues and your system say has been used  on line a lot, you've installed a bunch of apps you no longer use, and on and on, the system gets messy and next thing you know you have 150 processes running in the background. 
A clean install is not technically complicated to do, it's real simple, Sit there installing the stuff you use. 
In my case it's all in a portable drive or on disks. But I still go to web sites to make sure I have the latest versions and compare the version numbers first. 
It just takes longer but most of that time is just waiting for the installs, so like me I'm doing other stuff during the task otherwise it's pretty boring. 
You end up with everything all up to date and running smoothly. And I believe there's a big performance and stability boost. 
Cloning saves time but to me is a short cut and can just bring along the same ghosts that haunted your old system. 
If you old system is in tip top shape and your not sure how to re install everything then cloning might be better for you. 
 

Johnny V  
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 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
My Sonar Tutorial on using MIDI
http://www.cactusmusic.ca/Sonarmidi.htm
 
 
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gswitz
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/05 01:39:11 (permalink)
The idea of Junctions as I described above enable you to move folders wherever you like. This way you can start using your SSD and getting the performance boost without having to reinstall anything.
 
Run the command window as administrator.
 
c:\>mklink /J "C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Command Center\Downloads" "E:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Command Center\Downloads"
 
 Junction created for C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Command Center\Downloads <<===>> E:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Command Center\Downloads

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/05 13:44:36 (permalink)
I have a 250 SSD. I keep my OS, Sonar projects and small sample library's on it.
The rest go on a 1 TB or a 500 GB HDD.
I like the projects on the SSD with Sonar because they open lightening fast and Audio is written to disk rather fast as well.
 

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#18
burgerproduction
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/05 14:19:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BJN 2017/12/11 02:57:53
To add my 2 cents:
I'd put the OS, programs, FXs and Samples on the SSD and have an external HDD linked via your SATA connector as the recording drive. The reason for this is that an SSD has a limited number of writes over its lifetime. Accessing samples doesn't require any writing (unless you bounce/freeze the track) so you SSD will last longer if you are only reading files. 
I record live instruments and the huge file sizes and multiple takes would exhaust the SSD more quickly. HDDs don't suffer from this as you can write/erase/write to them an infinite number of times without effect. The connection speed via SATA is more than fast enough to accomodate read/write speeds for the audio tracks, while the SSD will boost the performance of the programs and VSTs.
Hope this makes sense.

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https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
 
#19
Jesse G
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/05 16:40:17 (permalink)
Your SSD most likely came with a CD or a link to download a data migration tool. 
 
Each of my Samsung SSD's came with a link to download the Samsung Data Migration software which I used to migrate all of my data from the Old SSD's to the higher SSD's.   It has worked well without any glitches.

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
==============================
Cakewalk and I are going places together!

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Billy86
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/05 19:23:07 (permalink)
burgerproduction
To add my 2 cents:
I'd put the OS, programs, FXs and Samples on the SSD and have an external HDD linked via your SATA connector as the recording drive. The reason for this is that an SSD has a limited number of writes over its lifetime. Accessing samples doesn't require any writing (unless you bounce/freeze the track) so you SSD will last longer if you are only reading files. 
I record live instruments and the huge file sizes and multiple takes would exhaust the SSD more quickly. HDDs don't suffer from this as you can write/erase/write to them an infinite number of times without effect. The connection speed via SATA is more than fast enough to accomodate read/write speeds for the audio tracks, while the SSD will boost the performance of the programs and VSTs.
Hope this makes sense.


Interesting. 
 
<<I'd put the OS, programs, FXs and Samples on the SSD and have an external HDD linked via your SATA connector as the recording drive.>> When you say "have an external HDD linked via your SATA connector," not sure what you mean. I will have the existing HDD still installed, along with a planned new SSD. Can you define "linked"? Do you just mean available for use as a recording drive?

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
#21
chriswickens
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/06 08:05:35 (permalink)
You are partitioning the drive that runs s the os and software to make it load samples as well? You're actually probably slowing it down. Partitioning doesn't physically split a disk up.
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BJN
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/11 03:22:35 (permalink)
burgerproduction
To add my 2 cents:
I'd put the OS, programs, FXs and Samples on the SSD and have an external HDD linked via your SATA connector as the recording drive. The reason for this is that an SSD has a limited number of writes over its lifetime. Accessing samples doesn't require any writing (unless you bounce/freeze the track) so you SSD will last longer if you are only reading files. 
I record live instruments and the huge file sizes and multiple takes would exhaust the SSD more quickly. HDDs don't suffer from this as you can write/erase/write to them an infinite number of times without effect. The connection speed via SATA is more than fast enough to accomodate read/write speeds for the audio tracks, while the SSD will boost the performance of the programs and VSTs.
Hope this makes sense.


This is correct information. SSD drives have limited write rewrites so it is a very good idea to make the SSD drives read only to extend their life.
There  can be issues with interrupt times using PCIe SSDs for audio, creating glitches and greater buffers. In other words the huge bus capacity of the PCIe SSDs interrupts performance on your interface.
Samsung Evo brands have the best cloning software for name brand PCs (HP,DELL etc) The SATA drives are perfectly adequate unless you have an expensive PC.
The Pro versions are the best for write speeds and longevity is hardly a concern.
For PRo video use the NVMe SSDs are the best
post edited by BJN - 2017/12/11 03:54:59

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#23
Billy86
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/11 04:21:51 (permalink)
So, I've been reading that you shouldn't record to (i.e.: 'write to') an SSD due to the limited amount of times you can write to them. Best to record to the companion HDD?

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GaryMedia
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/11 04:51:32 (permalink)
Billy86
So, I've been reading that you shouldn't record to (i.e.: 'write to') an SSD due to the limited amount of times you can write to them. Best to record to the companion HDD?



Look at the TBW (Total Bytes Written) specification for the SSD's you're considering.  It's an indication of the writing durability of the drives. You'll see values in the hundreds of terabytes.  Perhaps 5 years ago this was an SSD characteristic about which you should be concerned, but it's hardly an issue any longer.
 
Add up all the data you have created over the last decade or so to develop a proportionate understanding of how durable these newer SSD drives are expected to be. 

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#25
Genghis
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/14 05:32:08 (permalink)
Kev999
Genghis
I recently did the upgrade myself to a Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB drive. It came with the software to clone my old hard drive, and it was a pretty easy, painless process.  After I did it I realized I was really only using about 300GB on the boot drive, so I partitioned it using a utility called EaseUS to a little over 400GB for  boot drive and the rest for samples.  I copied my Superior Drummer 3 libraries over to that partition so that it loads faster.

 
In your case, two smaller SSDs would have been better than one single large one.


Thanks for the info.  This bottleneck is really keeping me from getting any recording done.  I wish I would have known that before.

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#26
mikelgom
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Re: Adding an SSD. How to get the most from it? 2017/12/21 05:48:52 (permalink)
My computer's OS is installed on my SSD also. I also store my projects and library there for faster loading.
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