Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay

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lfm
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2015/02/08 22:23:07 (permalink)
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Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay

There is a good bunch of VST midi plugins out there.
I use these InsertPizHere and they can also be configures how they identify themselves - with or without audio etc.
 
Normal effect bays allow to insert both VST and DX type of effect.
 
Why not allow both on MFX bays too?
MFX is DX based technology.
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    Vas
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/10 00:11:02 (permalink)
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    Are you asking for VST midi effects to be able to function like MFX and be listed with the MFX?
    If so this will make it real fast and easy to use the VST midi effects.
     
    The VST midi effects can also be used along with VSTi tracks if one wants to do it this way and they way it is now done. Am I right about this?

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    #2
    lfm
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/10 16:48:53 (permalink)
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    Yes, pretty much as you say - a kind of VST midi folder that Sonar picks up and allow to insert like any MFX.
     
    For the simpler stuff a straight chain is enough.
     
    For more complicated stuff I use DDMF MetapluginSynth that allow any routing and loading multiple plugins and synths too if one wants. Just draw connections for midi and audio how you want them and save as a preset.
    #3
    Vas
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/10 17:19:03 (permalink)
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    Too bad DDMF MetapluginSynth, EnergyXT and Bidule to not make an MFX version. So it is the job of Cakewalk to make this happen. Well overdue. Surprised no DAW gas done this already so I  hope Cakewalk The Creators of the MFX spec takes the lead.
     
    For hose that are un-are of the MFX, midi FX is the specification that Cakewalk developed. MFX is sometimes confused with VST midi FX which is actually VSTi midi FX and other proprietary midi fx.

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    lfm
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/11 05:08:28 (permalink)
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    MetapluginSynth need not be mfx, really, you load your VST midi plugins(not mfx) and other synths in Metaplugin and Meta in the normal synth rack - all ready to use.
     
    But for mfx plugin bay - it's as you say Cakes job what they allow there.
    MFX is DX technology Cake developed together with Microsoft as I understand it.
     
    So my surprise is that not DX and VST coexist in midi bay, when it does in effect bays.
    If you want you own arpeggiator like Kirnu instead of built in - or something.
     
    As far as I know, Cubase only allow VST midi effect in theirs. But it could be that DX is not their technology, being creators of VST standard.
    #5
    Vas
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/12 17:33:13 (permalink)
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    Sonar and Cubase as far as I know are the only one that allow the MFX (Cakewalk) in the midi bay. Cubase also has proprietary MIDI fx in the midi bay which do not work in any other DAW. You cannot put VST (VSTi) midi fx in the midi bay. I believe we agree here?
     
    What I thought you were asking was for Sonar to somehow allow the VST midi plugins to be included in the midi bay. I was responding to this as I believe it is a desirable Feature Request. This FR can be implemented in various ways. One way being was offered in a previous post. In any case the VST (VSTi) midi fx are inserted in an instrument track and not in the MFX bay.
     
    What I do in Cubase is put Bidule as an IN. Inside Bidule (or energyXT, Console) I open the VST midi fx and route them as I please. Now I can bypass the midi bay or if I want additional midi fx I can use the MFX and the properoery midi FX available which are next in the midi path.
     
    Unfortunately AFAIK only InsertPizHere is the only third party MFX that is 64 bit. There is no 32 to 64 bit MFX wrapper to be able to use the 32 bit MFX in a 64 bit Cubase and Sonar.

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    lfm
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/12 21:06:20 (permalink)
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    Vas
    What I thought you were asking was for Sonar to somehow allow the VST midi plugins to be included in the midi bay. I was responding to this as I believe it is a desirable Feature Request. This FR can be implemented in various ways. One way being was offered in a previous post. In any case the VST (VSTi) midi fx are inserted in an instrument track and not in the MFX bay.

    That is my FR too.
     
     
    What I do in Cubase is put Bidule as an IN. Inside Bidule (or energyXT, Console) I open the VST midi fx and route them as I please. Now I can bypass the midi bay or if I want additional midi fx I can use the MFX and the properoery midi FX available which are next in the midi path.
     

    My use of Metaplugin and Patchwork too.
     

    Unfortunately AFAIK only InsertPizHere is the only third party MFX that is 64 bit. There is no 32 to 64 bit MFX wrapper to be able to use the 32 bit MFX in a 64 bit Cubase and Sonar.




    I found one collection with dxshell and mfxshell, and it made my mfx turn up among synths, as I remember, 64-bit stuff. But the daw I used then did not show a gui at all, so no use. But now back to Sonar that is obsolete anyway.
     
    Bluecat audio has this Plug'n Script - which has a programming language to make midi or audio plugins yourself. But have not tried it and not for MFX bay - unless my FR is implemented. I liked the abilities JS Script had in Reaper and unfortunately CAL is not progressing in Sonar.
     
    So opening for midi FX in mfx bay, you can run Plug'n Script - and make any functionality you need.
     
    If anybody used Plug'n Script will chime in - we might make a stronger case for this FR than ever before.
    #7
    Vas
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/12 21:50:36 (permalink)
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    lfm
    So opening for midi FX in mfx bay, you can run Plug'n Script - and make any functionality you need.




    Do you mean?
    To open a VST midi FX in mfx bay, you can run Plug'n Script - and make any functionality you need.
     
    So one can run Bidule, energyXT, Console, Metaplugin and Patchwork in the Cubase IN or Sonar input and to some degree accomplish running VST midi fx in these DAW's. However it is easier to work with VST midi FX in the MFX bay.
     
    What I would really like to see is a modular MFX like Bidule (or energyXT, Console, Metaplugin and Patchwork) that allows it to host VST midi fx, MFX (Cakewalk) and the propriety midi fx, if not asking too much. This will be a dream come true as then all types of midi fx can be used and routed in millions of ways.

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    #8
    lfm
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2015/02/13 09:05:36 (permalink)
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    Original idea was to just open up to load midi plugins that have midi in and out in mfx bay, and ignore and any audio in/out if any. Just an extra VST folder for plugins you want in mfx list.
    #9
    Vas
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2016/01/19 01:11:39 (permalink)
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    Yes the audio inputs and outputs will have to be ignored.
     
    Your original idea makes my top Feature requests.
     
    But... to make things even better provide a modular environment for MFX and VSTi midi effects to co-exist and to be able to freely route them.
     
    And for those that still prefer to use the VSTi midi fx on the instrument track they will still be able to do that. So this is a win win situation.
    post edited by Vas - 2016/01/19 01:26:22

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    Tonmann
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2016/10/02 12:22:33 (permalink)
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    Hi there,
     
    I just stumbled over this article... I also always missed the feature in Sonar as somehow Cakewalk never implemented the support for VST-M plugins.
    However, I recently found a working solution, maybe it helps others too. (Note that I'm still running a rather ancient version of Sonar, so it may not work with recent versions):
    http://www.tonmann.com/2016/10/using-vst-midi-plugins-in-cakewalk-sonar/
     
    cheers,
    Chris
    #11
    Vas
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2016/10/02 13:57:03 (permalink)
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    So with your method using the Wusik-VM, the VST-M (VSTi midi fx or VST midi fx or VST MIDI plugins) will now appear on the MFX list in Sonar (or older versions)? I am not sure that we are on the same page on this. Are we? I am still not 100% sure if I am on the same page with lfm.
     
    Is Wusik-VM 32 bit or also 64 bit?
     
    Will not get to try this for a while as I am not currently doing any music creation.
     
    Thanks for your input.

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    #12
    Tonmann
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    Re: Allow VST midi plugins in MFX bay 2016/10/02 16:12:22 (permalink)
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    I believe Wusik-VM is 32bits, there is no info about the bit depth on the homepage and the manual.
    Of course, my work-around will not add the VST MIDI plugins to any internal "MFX list" in Sonar, but one can at least use them now.
    #13
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