Am I crazy? I think I am.

I've recorded a lot of live band practices and sometimes get multiple takes of the same song. None of these songs are recorded using a click track and the tempo varies throughout the song and from take to take. However, the band stays pretty well together, slowing down and speeding up together.
 
I usually record 20 tracks and and the takes are recorded sequentially. I would like to be able to cut and paste all takes as multiple takes starting at 1:01:00. So each track would contain as may clips as I have takes. To do this I need for all the takes to follow the same tempo map.
 
To do this I have been trying to use audio snap; but I find that I can't get audiosnap to identify the beat very well. So I'm going along track by track and take by take marking beats [typically quarter notes] in each measure. This takes forever and seems completely impractical.
 
My plan was to use do just one track per take and use that track to set the project tempo map for that take and then apply that tempo to the other 19 tracks. However, since audiosnap can't seem to find the quarter notes, I don't think that will work.
 
Am I nuts? Is this really more trouble than it's worth as it seems? If yes, I'll just give up. If not, what should I do?
 
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Thanks.
 

 I would like to be able to cut and paste all takes as multiple takes starting at 1:01:00. So each track would contain as may clips as I have takes. To do this I need for all the takes to follow the same tempo map.

I'm not following exactly what you're describing here.  if you're cutting a vertical section of time and copying all of the clips in that slice of time (all tracks) and you're pasting them in another section, then why does the tempo have to be the same as the previous section or the next section?  as long as the flow is the same from one slice to the next, then that's all that would matter.  or is that what you're having a problem with?

Hey phil. If I read you correctly, you want to be able to use different parts from different takes of the same song (like using the guitar solo from Take #4 with the drums from Take #9), right?

With no common tempo... you're right; you are definitely crazy. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

I'm going along track by track and take by take marking beats [typically quarter notes] in each measure. This takes forever and seems completely impractical.

In a similar situation here's what I did:
1) Start with a blank project
2) Import the drum track (hi hat or something with a metronome-like beat)
3) Create the tempo map manually. Yes, it takes forever and is indeed impractical, but you only need to do it once.
4) Now import the other tracks one by one. If I'm not mistaken, Sonar should automatically stretch or compress them to fit the existing tempo map.

The tedious part is #3. Best method I've tried is to start at measure 1 and proceed one measure at a time, inserting a tempo change whenever you hear the drums drift from the project metronome. It takes a few hours, but the results are much better than audio snap.

I have had to do this sort of thing before as well and I have found a good trick is to simply record a cowbell (or wood sticks etc) part on a clean track while listening to the music. (in phones of course and playing crotchets of course) ) Now this does require you to be able to play very good time on this instrument while listening. I have a background as a drummer so it is not hard for me. (or get a good drummer to do it)

The reason this works so well is that you can adjust so well to the time in the band. Your brain is listening and computing and adjusting all the time. Now Audio Snap will not have any problems locking onto a clean track like that.

(I have got an Emagic Unitor 8 midi interface and you can feed this cowbell track directly into it and it adjusts the midi clock to suit, very cool)

Spaceduck


Hey phil. If I read you correctly, you want to be able to use different parts from different takes of the same song (like using the guitar solo from Take #4 with the drums from Take #9), right?

With no common tempo... you're right; you are definitely crazy. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

I'm going along track by track and take by take marking beats [typically quarter notes] in each measure. This takes forever and seems completely impractical.

In a similar situation here's what I did:
1) Start with a blank project
2) Import the drum track (hi hat or something with a metronome-like beat)
3) Create the tempo map manually. Yes, it takes forever and is indeed impractical, but you only need to do it once.
4) Now import the other tracks one by one. If I'm not mistaken, Sonar should automatically stretch or compress them to fit the existing tempo map.

The tedious part is #3. Best method I've tried is to start at measure 1 and proceed one measure at a time, inserting a tempo change whenever you hear the drums drift from the project metronome. It takes a few hours, but the results are much better than audio snap.

I haven't tried this; but think I will. Thanks Spaceduck.
 
I've already created a separate tempo map for each take. So part #3 is done. However, I think that I'll still need to place snap markers in each clip that I move. Otherwise, SONAR will guess at the original tempo and get it wrong. Still the method you're proposing is more structured and will be easier to keep track of.
 
Thanks again.
 
Bill

I wouldn't even bother with Audiosnap. Just group all of the clips and make cuts from downbeat to downbeat. Line up the transients visually and turn on autofade. Even if the timing fluctuates, it will sound like normal drift when a band is pushing/pulling.

 
...and add LOTS of reverb!