Helpful ReplyAmbient noise levels

Author
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
2016/03/14 12:20:10 (permalink)

Ambient noise levels

I'm trying to get the ambient noise levels in my studio down as far as possible.  I can't seem to get below 36 db (A weighted), even with everything in the house off, including the refrigerator.  My studio is acoustically treated with bass traps and mineral wool 2' x 4' panels, textured drywall and some diffusers on the ceiling and walls, and hardwood floors.  The ceiling is 9' tall and the room is about 12' x 16' in an irregular shape.  I have a few large baffles that I can move around where needed and there is an upholstered couch and a few chairs in the room, along with an assortment of instruments and amps, including an acoustic drum kit.  I don't get any strange reflections or flutter echos, and I cover the drums with a blanket to keep them from resonating when I'm not recording them.  I checked ambient noise levels in other rooms in the house and they are around 42 db.  I live out in the country, and the home is built into a hillside, with two of the walls of my studio being concrete, insulated with styrofoam sheet and covered with drywall.  The other two walls are standard 2x4 construction with drywall on both sides.  I don't usually have outside noises making their way into the studio.  Is it unrealistic to expect noise levels lower than what I'm getting?  I was hoping to get down to around 25 db.  Any advice?
#1
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 12:28:26 (permalink)
aspenleaf
I can't seem to get below 36 db (A weighted), even with everything in the house off, including the refrigerator.



If you amplify the background noise, what do you hear ?
 
I see from a chart that 30db is a whisper, and normal breathing 10db.  So if you're as isolated as you say, something has to be producing the noise.  Do you have large windows in your walls transmitting sound from outside ?

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#2
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 12:55:56 (permalink)
From a practical perspective is the ambient level consistent enough to be removed by a noise gate or noise reduction tool? It may be unrealistic to expect super low levels, and the gate approach helps to deal with "what is" and be usable.

A lesson learned for me is low levels led to mic gains set too high, so transients like body motion were picked up. Consistent background noise is easier to accommodate than transients getting through - in your case a simple gate may be an easier path for your recording needs. 36dB is not excessive if intended material is substantially louder (much comes down to S/N ratio in the end).
post edited by mettelus - 2016/03/14 13:19:22

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#3
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 13:01:33 (permalink)
36dB relative to what?
 
Relative to "normal human hearing threshold" that is quite loud and you should have no problem working out what the noise is.
Relative to "absolute silence" it is probably already below you own hearing threshold.
 
Do you actually have a background noise problem or have you just switched on an SPL meter and discovered it can hear things you can't?

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#4
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 13:22:22 (permalink)
There are no windows in the room.  Measurements were made with nothing turned on in the room.  No computer, no rack.  I even turned off the clock, lights and surge suppressors.  The refrigerator is on the floor above this room, but about 20 feet away.  I thought it might be making the floor resonate, so I unplugged it, but the 36 db reading remained the same.  I am measuring with a SPL meter, but even just using my ears, it seems there is a background noise, but I can't seem to locate it.  It seems to be throughout the house.  When recording most things, the signal to noise ratio is fine, but I first noticed the background noise when I had a ribbon mic going through a Presonus RC500 preamp and recording spoken word.    But the ambient noise I'm referring to is not electronic noise from the preamp gain being turned up because of the ribbon mic.  There was some preamp hiss above about 50 db gain, but I started trying to track down the noise, and was surprised that with everything shut off that I was still getting 36 db of noise as read by the SPL meter.
#5
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 13:38:47 (permalink)
Also bear in mind that sound travels farther and with more power through denser materials. That concrete wall touching the ground is receiving sound from miles away (no joke), and may be resonating. Any industrial/power generation facilities can be transmitting 24/7 into the ground itself, but only lower frequencies will travel the furthest. ELF (extremely low frequency) requires massive power to generate but can be heard thousands of miles away.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#6
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 13:47:51 (permalink)
Interesting thought, mettelus.  I live in the mountains in Colorado very near the continental divide at 8750 foot elevation, but the house is built on bedrock and now you have me wondering if that might be transmitting sound.  I'm very far from any industrial facilities, but I do have neighboring homes within a few hundred feet.
#7
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 13:49:45 (permalink)
Bedrock is a really good transmitter.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#8
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 18:29:27 (permalink)
Another thing came to mind with this. Vibration transmitted into the air will be less than the surface creating it (and vice versa). If holding the SPL meter is 36dB in "free air," try holding it firmly against a stud on those walls (if is easy to find one) and see if it creates a change in the level. Physical contact with offending surfaces should give higher readings (similar to a stethoscope).
 
If the SPL meter does not increase, those walls may not be the source but simple speculation.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#9
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/14 19:40:41 (permalink)
That's a good suggestion.  I'll give it a try.
#10
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/15 09:07:08 (permalink)
Maybe you're in one of those places that experiences "The Hum".....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#11
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/15 09:18:41 (permalink)
It's funny you should mention this.  There are some strange things happening in this area.
 
I was able to measure the loudest frequency at 57 Hz.  At higher frequencies the SPL decreases.  I'm wondering if it could be coming from the wiring in the house. 
 
I did some experimenting with high pass filters and Izotope RX3 noise reduction, and it can be filtered out pretty effectively, so I may be stuck with processing my tracks this way.
#12
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/15 10:59:39 (permalink)
aspenleaf
I was able to measure the loudest frequency at 57 Hz.  At higher frequencies the SPL decreases.  I'm wondering if it could be coming from the wiring in the house. 

 
When it's below -30 outside my daughters bedroom turns into a speaker for the utilities transformer a couple of houses away.  The wire coming into the house is attached to her wall and acts like a string walkie-talkie.  Very loud and annoying hum that changes as you move around the room.  It's inaudible at higher temperatures, but problably still there to some extent.

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#13
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/15 11:13:49 (permalink)
Interesting.  There is a transformer a few hundred feet down the road.  The next time the power goes out (which is fairly frequently) I'll have to take some readings.
#14
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 26036
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/15 11:55:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/03/17 06:03:15
 
36 dBSPL may be near the lower limit of your meter's reliable range. They typically start to register their own internal noise below 30 to 40 dBSPL. Meters that work reliably down to virtual silence do exist, but they're very expensive. At any rate, even if the reading is accurate, 36 dB isn't terrible. 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#15
aspenleaf
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2011/08/09 05:18:12
  • Status: offline
Re: Ambient noise levels 2016/03/15 12:13:48 (permalink)
That's probably the case with this meter.  I don't have one that's highly accurate.
#16
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1