Helpful ReplyAnnual tip: Remember to set Pan law

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panup
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2017/02/25 05:39:23 (permalink)

Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law

Pan law?
 
In SONAR, Pan law is found in Preferences | Driver settings | Stereo Panning Law. It is project specific. New project uses last project's setting (I suppose). Thus you should check that pan law is correct. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has mixed the song with incorrect pan law setting. Current Pan law is not shown in the track view or control bar so you must either remember it or check it from the Preferences.
 
Panleft, panright, pandown, panup!
 
EDIT: Added useful links mentioned in this thread.
post edited by panup - 2017/02/28 05:41:55
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synkrotron
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 07:00:17 (permalink)
Thank you panup

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synkrotron
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 07:46:47 (permalink)
Just had a look at my setup and I am using the default which is "0dB center, sin/cos taper, constant power"
 
So now I am confused and wondering if I should just ignore this.
 
The SOS article doesn't mention anything about "sin/cos taper, constant power"
 
 

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The Maillard Reaction
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. 2017/02/25 08:41:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 11Dreams 2017/02/25 22:27:55
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post edited by mister happy - 2017/12/25 02:17:55


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soens
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 08:57:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mudgel 2017/02/26 06:21:59
Is this Panu's law?!
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 09:16:50 (permalink)
Is Pan law a project setting or a general SONAR setting?  If it's saved with the project you will have to edit all your project templates.  Since each new project will get whatever is setup in the template you start with.  This is true for all the per-project settings in SONAR.  If you want to change any of these you have to fix every template you use.  But I'm not sure Driver Settings is like that.  Anyone know for sure?

-Matt
 
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 09:27:39 (permalink)
A quick test says it is saved in templates, so if you want to change it you will need to fix your templates.

-Matt
 
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synkrotron
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 09:32:10 (permalink)
So which pan law is everyone using and why?

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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 10:01:53 (permalink)
synkrotron
So which pan law is everyone using and why?

I'm curious for this to be answered too???

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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 10:16:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/02/25 10:28:38
synkrotron
So which pan law is everyone using and why?



Here's an article that tells what you need to know about pan laws, which pan law I've chosen, and why. I'm sure you'll find Figure 3 interesting, which shows how different panning laws affect signal level when panned to one side or in mono. 

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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 10:23:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/02/25 10:29:04
I had a problem with mixdown (bounce to clips) of mono tracks to a stereo track with the left channel lower than the right.  Turned out to be some type of program problem that was fixed by rolling back to several 2016 versions where it was OK and then eventually reloading the current 2017 version and it was fixed. 
 
BUT, my panning law is and has always been set to the default "0dB center, sin/cos taper, constant power"

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The Maillard Reaction
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. 2017/02/25 10:59:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 11Dreams 2017/02/25 22:36:23
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post edited by mister happy - 2017/12/25 02:18:03


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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 11:37:14 (permalink)
Anderton
synkrotron
So which pan law is everyone using and why?



Here's an article that tells what you need to know about pan laws, which pan law I've chosen, and why. I'm sure you'll find Figure 3 interesting, which shows how different panning laws affect signal level when panned to one side or in mono. 


Craig,
 
In the last paragraph of the article, you mentioned that you tend to record mono sources in mono... Seems to me I read a thread recently (sorry can't remember which one) where you talked about recording in stereo more often these days... has that changed since the article was written in 2014, or am I misunderstanding your recording technique...thx!
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 11:59:59 (permalink)
It's both, actually. I record voice and guitar in mono, but they typically end up being stereo tracks because of added signal processing.

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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 12:48:31 (permalink)
Anderton
Here's an article that tells what you need to know about pan laws, which pan law I've chosen, and why. I'm sure you'll find Figure 3 interesting, which shows how different panning laws affect signal level when panned to one side or in mono. 



Good Day all, 
Great article and Fig 3, you say you personally prefer the -3 dB option, (not the Sonar 0dB sin/cos default), which I guess accounts for the acoustical +3 dB level, when doubling a mono sound source.
Im not sure Im clear on which one of the 2, -3 dB options, is your preferred, the sin/cos or the square root taper?
 
I guess bottom line is, if like me, you live and stay in Sonarville, in may not matter in that you may not want to change now what you've used on existing good mixes, or you would most likely need to remix/tweak pan/levels, but important to know/consider when bringing in visitors mixes done using a different pan law.
 
Looking at Figure 3, and in hind site, had I seen this, I would have probably chosen, or thought to choose instead of the default 0 dB sin/cos, the 0 dB balanced option, as shown on track 11, 12, as my default or better choice?. That is, so your actual level remains constant when panning and is controlled only by your fader level rather than both the pan and fader? (Albeit I may still not be fully understanding, the constant power aspect).
 
Cheers      
 

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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/25 15:04:01 (permalink)
Anderton
Here's an article that tells what you need to know about pan laws, which pan law I've chosen, and why. I'm sure you'll find Figure 3 interesting, which shows how different panning laws affect signal level when panned to one side or in mono. 



Thank you Craig
 
I'm probably a bit long in the tooth now to take all that on board. Old dog, new tricks and all that.
 
I don't think it will bother me too much... I'm not a pro, never will be. In fact, for what I do, it's debatable whether I should even be using Sonar Platinum, when Artist would suffice.
 
I work solely on my own, nowadays, and only swap stems as either stereo or mono wave files for the infrequent collaborations. I will never be porting my projects over to another DAW. I do record audio, as either mono or stereo, depending on the source (I've got a couple of guitars, a modular synth and a couple of VA synths) but most of my work is done with VST instruments. The genre I am currently exploring is minimal/ambient I often let some of my VST effects take care of my panning needs (stereo delay for instance).
 
I saw the other topic about summing to mono to check the mix and I understand that we should ensure that a mix works in mono as well as stereo. But this is something else that I don't do. I always assume that my work is going to be listened to on headphones, mainly because of the genre and also because it is something I have been doing myself for many years, regardless of genre.
 
So, given all that, I don't think that panning law is something that I should worry too much about. BUT, I will certainly consider trying your default choice, just because you know what you are doing, and I certainly don't.
 
Cheers, and thanks again,
 
andy

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Jesse G
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/27 18:47:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby panup 2017/02/28 08:01:17
Here is an excellent video example of using the various pan laws with audio results of using each Pan Law.
 
This was an eye opener    PAN LAW VIDEO

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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/27 20:29:02 (permalink)
Great article.  By the way, I am quite surprised to learn that Sonar does NOT default to -3 center.

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panup
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/28 05:43:16 (permalink)
I added Craig's and Jesse G's links to the first post.
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/28 07:37:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby panup 2017/02/28 08:01:29
Im not sure its been mentioned but I believe a lot of high end studios use -4.5 as a pan law.
Its the split between -3 and -6.
It also happens to be what the old classic SSL consoles used to use as pan laws.

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The Maillard Reaction
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. 2017/02/28 07:58:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby panup 2017/02/28 08:01:32
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post edited by mister happy - 2017/12/25 02:18:12


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JohnEgan
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/28 09:46:34 (permalink)
Caa2
 
In other words, if you select the *correct* "pan law" you will not hear it working.
See what I did there?
 

 
So in other, other words would you say, or are you saying, there should not be big level difference, at same listening position if switching between mono and stereo output? i.e., pan law choice should help make it easier to balance your mix to sound "OK" for both stereo and mono listening? (but possibly not perfect for either?).
 
Would you not somehow be compromising the stereo fx/quality possible by mixing something to sound "OK"  in both mono and stereo, particularly when intended to be heard with stereo fx?
 
Would one law apply better to, static/set panned positions, and one more to dynamic/automated panning fx?, i.e., moving a sound from left to right? (which for example wouldn't be appreciated listening in mono)  
 
I still tend to think, one way or another, you dont necessarily want something panned to sound the same level as something centred, so will be adjusting fader levels anyways, perhaps in some ways it may be nice if you could actually set the dB "law" level yourself than use these set values? (or I guess this would somehow be the same using the 0 balanced setting, and using fader to determine the law?)
 
Are there similar principles that apply in surround mixing? (I haven't yet done any, so may be a dumb question, LOL)
 
Cheers 
 

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#22
The Maillard Reaction
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. 2017/02/28 09:59:00 (permalink)
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post edited by mister happy - 2017/12/25 02:18:22


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chuckebaby
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/02/28 20:57:54 (permalink)
A good stereo example to me is Van Halen I.  .
Or Jimi Hendrix, Purple Haze.

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JohnEgan
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Re: Annual tip: Remember to set Pan law 2017/03/01 03:14:43 (permalink)
chuckebaby
A good stereo example to me is Van Halen I.  .
Or Jimi Hendrix, Purple Haze.

How about Pink Floyd, Ummagumma, Several Species of Small Creatures, LOL
   

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