(Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET

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Spaceduck
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2009/06/18 16:47:37 (permalink)

(Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET

Can someone explain what optical compression is, and how is it different from FET or VCA? Are there certain applications where you'd want to use one instead of the other, or is it just a matter of personal taste? I'm thinking of the LA-2A vs. the 1176LN, but any examples will do.

*edit*

I found an interesting article that states: "For example, the now legendary Universal Audio 1176 combined a fairly fast attack time with a multi-stage release envelope. Conversely, the Teletronix's LA2A's rather primitive optical components resulted in a slower and quite non-linear attack combined with a release characteristic that slowed as the release progressed. Indeed, perhaps the reason the traditional opto compressor has so much character is that there are so many places in the circuitry that non-linearities can creep in."
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=176

This makes it sound like optical compression is inferior (or at least slower). So why is it so widely used?
post edited by Spaceduck - 2009/06/18 17:02:11

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    droddey
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/18 17:20:09 (permalink)
    The LA-2A has an attack time of 10ms, which is fixed because it's part of how the optical cell reacts. And the release time is also fixed for the same reason, but it's a two stage thing. The first stage is about 60ms where it release to about half way, then the rest of the release can be shorter or longer, depending on how long the signal was above the threshold. It can be up to a couple seconds long if you are hitting it hard.

    So unlike most modern comps you can't adjust the attack time or the release time. But, OTOH, the release times are dynamic and adaptive and very musical for many types of sources. So it's a one trick pony, but the trick is very good. Put on one a strummed guitar or a funky guitar part or a finger picked bass or a vocal and you'll get it. It just sounds really good. And of course the fact that it has four tubes and two transformers doesn't hurt either, since that warms up the sound nicely.

    You wouldn't want it for your only compressor, since it's not flexible. It can't be used to knock the peaks off of fast transients like snares or really attacky guitars. But for slower attack stuff it's great. The LA-2A is more of an 'envelope reshaper' which shapes the envelope of the signal very nicely to make it flow well.

    And when combined with a fast compressor like an 1176, the two of them together, each doing a little compression, is a sound you've heard thousands of times on records because it's done all the time. A fast compressor is more for clamping things down. So if you let the LA-2A shape the envelope and feed that into a fast compressor to knock down any fast peaks that get through too high, it can be a nice combination.

    One gotcha is that, if you are using it lightly, where it has time to fully discharge the optical cell in between peaks, then you can get a bit of a 'jump out at you' thing where the first note of the next line because you are getting the full 10ms attack time, whereas otherwise it's often not fully discharged and is still in compression mode lightly. You can always give a little yelp just before starting the next line or something, to 'prime the pump'.
    post edited by droddey - 2009/06/18 17:35:02

    Dean Roddey
    Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
    www.charmedquark.com
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    Spaceduck
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/18 17:36:08 (permalink)
    Thanks! Interesting stuff, that answers a whole lot. I never understood what could be so useful about a compressor that basically has one knob to control everything. But the way you put it makes sense. So is it fair to say an LA2A would be better for mastering a song (gentle shaping), whereas the 1176 might be better for tracking (particularly drums & percussive instruments)?

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    droddey
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/18 17:55:49 (permalink)
    The LA-2A is a tracking comp definitely, not for mastering or bus glue purposes. I guess it could be used for that, but I don't think too many folks would argue for it. I think most folks would consider either of them too colored for mastering or master bus glue compression duties.

    The LA-2A/1176 combo is kind of the holy grail tracking comp combination I guess. Between either of them separately, or the two of them in series (in one order or the other), that would cover a lot of ground.

    The SSL bus comp from Chameleon that I picked up recently is a very nice bus compressor for the master bus or drum bus and such, and it's not expensive at all.
    post edited by droddey - 2009/06/18 18:06:27

    Dean Roddey
    Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
    www.charmedquark.com
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/18 19:12:06 (permalink)
    Yes, the thought is that the slow reaction of the LA-2A suits ad even inspires smooth a smooth vocal texture. But the slow reaction can't get out of the way of the drums and other rhythmic components and effectively squashes them into lifelessness. The 1176 is the fastest of the traditional comp/limiters and is great for mixes because it's so quick that it doesn't alter the "sound" unless you want it too.

    That's also why it's a good follow up to a 1176 in a vocal chain.

    I just bought a LA-610 last Friday and liked it so much I went back and asked them to get me another (should be here next week). I'm enjoying the LA-2A type sound.

    I'm also considering a Manley ELOP or some of Dean's DIY LA2a magic... something to connect to my solid state preamp collection. Then I'll look for some Purple 77s or a UA 1176 type box. It's part of my long term multi year plan.

    oh also,

    go wiki opto isolators which I think you will find fascinating.

    They are all the smanck for pro audio but curiously they are the skank in guitar amps. For example I modded my 77 Deluxe Reverb with a '58 tube tremolo rather than repair the oft times dead opto isolator that controlled the tremolo circuit.

    They are funky little lights. In fact you can even find a DIY for T4 modules made from scratch.... you may enjoy reading that.

    best,
    mike



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    droddey
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/18 21:13:24 (permalink)
    I'm also considering a Manley ELOP or some of Dean's DIY LA2a magic... something to connect to my solid state preamp collection. Then I'll look for some Purple 77s or a UA 1176 type box. It's part of my long term multi year plan.


    The DIY 1176s are actually far more accurate to the originals (in terms of design) than my LA-2A one is. Not that the Drip LA-2A doesn't sound like an LA-2A, it definitely does. But in terms of how it's built, the DIY 1176s are quite close in terms of the original circuit. So there's definitely no compromise on that front relative to an MC-77 or UA 1176. I think that the MC-77 evolved from the MC-76 which I think was kind of an implementation of the Gyraf DIY 1176, wasn't it? I could be wrong on that.

    Dean Roddey
    Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
    www.charmedquark.com
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    mlockett
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/19 13:07:06 (permalink)
    I often use the UAD LA2A when I don't want things to sound compressed, whereas with the 1176 is more for an in-your-face compression.
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    Mully
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    RE: (Another UA thread) LA-2A vs. 1176LN, or optical compressor vs. FET 2009/06/20 01:49:55 (permalink)
    Dang it all.... time to get current projects done and onto the next 'must haves'..... no prizes for guessing...

    Good and concise description btw Dean.


    ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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