Another one bites the

twinky...just great. Hostess is shutting down...over 18,000 more
will probably need a job.

Yep, put that in your twinkie and fry it.

Hostess..... those guys have been around a long time. 

The reason for the shutdown is cited as union demands. The cost of healthcare and pensions were too much of a drain on the bottom line. The unions refused to help with an 8% cut to pay & benefits... so the company shut the doors when the union employees refused to return to work by the deadline.  So instead of 8%... they got a 100% reduction in pay & benefits....   I hope that works out for ya.... not a good time to be looking for a job.

Our local town just spent $1 million to sue a company wanting to come here with 1100 direct jobs and several hundred more in indirect jobs..... a chicken processing plant.  Live chickens in one door, BBQ ready out the other.  The company decided if we didn't want them and the jobs, they would go somewhere else that did....and they did..... just announced it this week. So we lose 1100+ jobs and paid to do it......how dumb is that? 

Never mind that we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the state..... lets sue to keep 1100 jobs out of here..... 


Well....as far as I'm concerned, Hostess is welcome to come here..... we have lots of people willing to work, and cheaper than those union bozos would, and we have a "right to work" state here..... no forced unions. But I suspect from reading the story on the company, they are selling it all off..... so everybody loses..... 18,000 more in the unemployment lines and no more Ho Ho's and Twinkies in the stores. 

on the local scene in reference to this topic....With Hostess shutting down about 275 people will lose their jobs in Rocky Mount. The local union president said he was relieved: “I don’t have to deal with that anymore. The things that they were trying to do to us, it wasn't fair. They always hold that over our heads, that they’ll close it down. So, I’m like, ‘OK. Close it down." He said, “Our plan is to find another job. We have unemployment, but nobody wants unemployment without the health benefits. So, we’re pretty much going to find another job.” Sure, there is a HUGE demand for oven operators in Rocky Mount, a town of <60,000 people in a county with 11.1% unemployment.

edited.... no matter what the reason.... management or unions not giving an inch..... lots of people are out of work as a result.  The amazing thing to me is the cavalier attitude the local union boss has to folks "finding another job"


It's a real shame.

From what I've seen, FWIW, there is plenty of blame to go around on all sides.  Corporate leadership was a mess, and on the worker level, at least some would have ended up with a 50% wage decrease when all the previous cuts since the last round of bankruptcy were factored in.

As has already been mentioned, look at their product line.  It was (to keep a musical theme) more in tune with eating habits in the 1950's-1960's than now: loved their stuff as a kid, but haven't had a single thing of theirs in decades.

On an extremely infamous level, having lived in the SF Bay Area at the time, one cannot forget Dan White's "twinkie defense".

Given the product line, it is not unlike manufacturing slide rules in the early 1960's, or buggy whips circa 1905.  1950: Wonder Bread, great stuff, recent decades: the worst non-nutritious tasteless flour goo-ball one can think of.

Yeah, it is another "icon" of sorts gone.  And yes, there are some indications that the leadership "suits" sought to treat themselves well (see also: Avid).

What makes this one a bit more interesting is that the Teamsters, realizing the situation, actually voted in favor of the new reduced contract to keep the jobs, while the bakers union was the one that decided to strike.

Blame it on the workers???

"Hostess said Friday that much of Hostess Brands is unprofitable under its current cost structure much of which is determined by union wages and pension costs. It said its offer included wage, benefit and work rule concessions, but also gave Hostess Brands’ unions a 25 percent ownership stake in the company, representation on its board of directors and $100 million in reorganized Hostess Brands’ debt.
The union said the company’s problems are of its own making.
“The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market share,” the union said in a statement Thursday. “The Wall Street investors who took over the company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by attacking the company’s most valuable asset – its workers.
“Our members know that the plans all along of the Wall Street investors currently in control of this company did not include the operation of Hostess Brands any longer than it takes to sell the company in whole – or in part – in a way that will maximize the profits of these vulture capitalists regardless of the impact on the workforce.”

"so who's to say which side is "more right" than the other?"




That is, in my opinion, a very good question.


I know that, for my part, I am not in a position to make a judgement.




:-)

By the way the corporation that owns Pabst is eyeballing the remains of the company. They will buy it for pennies on the dollar, let the current plants fallow, hire all new workers at minimum wage with no bennies and rake in disgusting amounts of cash.

There was a specific statement from them about how pleased they were that the union is no longer an issue.

The company that is selling Hostess has been chipping away at the company for years intentionally destroying it so that they could do exactly what is happening.

That is why it is called "vulture" capitalism. Unless you are a mega millionaire (not even a regular millionaire) you should be completely against these scumbags. They are not only ruining your country (the US) they have tanked the world economy as well and are willing to do it again. Start hiring some politicians who will actually stand up to these jackals.

They'll get a nice fat severance and a bonus for dismantling the company then get absorbed back into the parent company until they find a new mark.

The company WAS profitable. I have no problem with how you describe your business or people making money. I used to be somewhat of a business man myself and am looking to get back on the horse. But what these guys do is take advantage of a broken system to crush otherwise healthy companies to get a quick return on their investment no matter what kind of devastation they leave in their wake.

It is funny that you brought out the "socialism" line like it is a dirty word. Socialism is not communism. It is merely describing what happens when a SOCIety works together for the greater good of all its citizens. As a business owner and American citizen you participate in and benefit from socialism every day. Without the laws and regulations established by government, without the infrastructure of the country like roads, highways, railways, etc... without the protection of the police and fire department, without government sponsored technical research, without import/export treaties, without other countrymen being financial stable enough to pay for your wares and services, without a federal monetary system you would not be able to run your business properly, safely or efficiently. You would have to trade shiny pebbles and farm animals to survive out of a handbuilt shack in a field under constant threat of marauders out to forcefully take everything you have. That is what would happen if we removed all elements of socialism from western society. You want a good example of this? Look at Somalia.

I don't hate rich people. I don't want to stifle people's ability to run their businesses. I don't want take an unfair portion of hardworking business owners profits. What I want to see is responsible business and government working together to build up society. Not tear it down like it is now.

You mentioned you served in the military. The US military is one of the largest examples of socialism the world has ever seen. It is paid for by the people to protect the people. That is socialism.

Also capitalism is great. I believe very strongly in capitalism. I am a capitalist myself. I like money. I like the things it buys. I like the good I can do with it. But to have a healthy capitalist system people need to actually have money and not just a few guys at the top. Everyone needs a chance to participate. The folks we are discussing are not responsible capitalists and in fact although they are quite good at making money in the short term they suck at making sure they CONTINUE to make money in the future. Once everyone is on minimum wage or outright unemployed who is going to buy their crap? What's going to happen to our societies?

The point is these guys are bad. They hide behind the whole "small business" rhetoric when trying to manipulate public policy and opinion but they want to hoover up all those companies and keep the entire pie for themselves. They are not your friends.

And now I think I've broken the TOS enough for one day.

Peace. 

Guitarhacker

And just as easily as walking away with what you think is a bundle of cash, they could have walked away broke and in debt. That is the risk every business owner and investor takes when they get into business or make that investment.   

Clever people have learned to put most of the risk on others while still reaping rewards. When a company goes bankrupt, the people who haven't been paid yet are in a different situation from people who have already made a profit or "earned" compensation.

And if someone is employed by a company and is "earning" extravagant compensation when that company is in difficulty or decline, it suggests that their compensation is not strictly determined by the capitalist theory of market pricing. 

I also would like to point out that it saddens and frightens me to watch our big brother to the south become so polarized and filled with hate. Ya'll need to start working together for common solutions to these problems. I wish we could help you out more but our current regime is heading down the same path as well.

I truly am terrified of what the future holds.

Yup. Although I am extremely passionate about my views and beliefs I would rather engage in productive and open discourse to try to persuade those who differ in opinions into seeing my logic and learn as much as I can from their perspective to try and find common ground.

These days American politics isn't even a fistfight anymore. It's an all out war and the biggest victims are the people the leaders are supposedly there to serve. It is sickening. It is also seeping into my own country and that makes me very upset and frightened. Everything the US does has a profound effect on the entire world. I wish that influence could be shifted back to being a positive force again and I hope that your country can mend itself before it's too late. Perhaps it is already too late. I feel deep sadness for your nation.

oof... Yeah the media is brutal. It all started getting ultra crazy when certain "news" organization who shall remain nameless managed to get the laws changed so that outright lies could be reported as fact instead of being put into editorial/opinion pieces. 

That to me is just horrible. Then it happened up here a few years ago. Our Prime Minister filled the CRTC which is the Canuck version of the FCC with his cronies and folks friendly with the media moguls (a lot of them actually worked for those companies). We had strict laws forbidding intentional misinformation and they were stripped. Now we are experiencing a rapid decline in journalistic quality.

What ends up happening is the guys who spew half truths and outright lies to get people emotional start getting all the ratings and the other legit news orgs have to follow suit or sink. It's another example of unscrupulous business practices of one entity dragging everyone else down with them. Now you have to have a high powered BS detector to even get an inkling as to what is really going on in the world.

Hopefully things start going back to sane place again and this was just a nasty phase in history. Sometimes things need to get really screwed up before humanity learns from their mistakes and moves the species forward.

Cheers, guys. Sorry for the rantiness. Guess I'm a little jazzed up today.

drewfx1


 

The reality is that in any important negotiation things don't get done until the very last second - after each side feels they have achieved the best deal they can possibly get.

Another reality is that many corporate contracts can become null when there is a union strike that lasts for a specific amount
of time.
Another way that the laborer is a played pawn in the game.
 
For the last 40+ years company profits trickling down to the work force has been trimmed far below the cost of living increase
with the addition of sky rocketing living and insurance costs while lining the pockets of upper management and shareholders.
It has been great for those in the upper ranks and especially considering that their contracts are likely padded with major
pay when leaving. I know of two CEOs that made over 5 million just to leave and both were with the same company.
 
The model is a pretty darn good one for the upper  ranks.....massive income, stretch the life of the company on bare
minimum to keep profits for massive management salaries for the  duration while keeping the workforce in place by just enough to keep them afloat- which is currently around 3% annually. And major lump sums for when the management changes.
 
Of course little of that 3% is seen due to rising cost of insurance even if a group policy is offered.
It has worked so well that many companies have managed to keep the plants running for the last 40 years while very slowly
starving the middle class into extinction.
 
Only within the last ten years has the dwindling of the middle class become headline topic.
 
The biggest issue with such a fantastic model is that the "fire escape" route has not been designed with the middle class laborers
in mind...it has been to relocate big business to cheaper labor force ...model survives along with managements incredible salaries.
Shareholders are happy. Profits are making them very, very wealthy and the middle class can do whatever...starve or find a lower
paying job.
 
World economy was never designed to raise the standard of living in countries outside of the US to the standard of the US.
The standard of living in world economy is for it to seek a balance- meaning that the standard of living in the US must drop as
most countries have a lower standard...which is perfect for the American business model. More people for the companies to
use as their "work horses". The model is simple...feed and water the horse enough to keep it coming back for more.
 
That is a completely different model than the business model of the '50s and '60's when business invested into the workforce and
the business.
It did last into the early to mid seventies. Good salaries, saving plans where the company would match dollar for dollar. Excellent
health and retirement packages.....all started disappearing in the mid seventies and most completely unheard of by the mid eighties.
 
So yes...from about the mid seventies to today the American middle class has been on a very strick and unhealthy diet while
those serving the dish have become so fat and have such a large supply of food that it is really of no concern to them....just move
to a place and serve those that require even less to survive. World economy.
 
 
 
 

Wait... did you just actually imply that you shouldn't have to pay ANY taxes into the system? A system as I pointed out makes it possible for you to actually run your business?  Sorry, man. Society does not work that way. Again I point you to Somalia to take a look how things are run in the type of social structure you are suggesting. Also I'm not going to pick apart your talking points but they have obviously been pulled directly from the far right's playbook. They are the types of ideologies that crushed the world's economy in the first place. Lookit... I don't like a lot of what the left has to offer either but the current right wing has gone WAY off the deep end. They used to be responsible conservatives who actually practiced what they preached. This new conservatism is completely geared towards stripping away as much wealth from the common man as possible and that includes you.

As far as this thread going off the rails into political territory it was your accusations towards the workers and the unions that started it. I should not have replied but then all that misinformation would have been sitting there unchallenged for anyone who has not read about this specific case to get misled by.

Yes, modern day unions have a lot of flaws but without them there never even would have been a middle class... ever. 

That said I think it's best I bow out of this conversation because I like you well enough but there is absolutely no way we are going to see eye to eye on political matters. I hope you open your mind and do some research as to what these corporatists are really all about as opposed to what their PR firms have led you to believe. You think the government taking a percentage of your earnings is bad? These guys will take EVERYTHING from you and laugh.

To be clear I am a true fiscal conservative and do believe in less government waste and bloat but we NEED infrastructure in a modern society and we NEED regulations to keep businesses honest and our economies and workforces strong. Trim the fat, keep the muscle.

Peace.