[Answered] Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth

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sharke
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2013/11/07 01:59:56 (permalink)

[Answered] Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth

Or at least you should be able to select "no output" for a MIDI track. 
 
Sometimes you just want a quick way to make a copy of a MIDI track including all events and any MIDI settings like snap to scale, arpeggiator etc. Let's say you want to preserve a "version" of a MIDI track before you go ahead and make experimental changes to the original. So you make a clone and choose "events" and "properties" in the cloning dialog. Everything is peachy except for the fact that the cloned track is still linked to the original synth. Of course you can mute it, but if you mute or solo the original synth track then the cloned track will mute or solo with it. Very annoying! 
 
If it were possible to select "no output" on a MIDI track, the problem would be solved. Anyone else run up against this problem sometimes?
 
Of course you can just mute the clips on the cloned track, but this feels like a workaround. 
post edited by Anderton - 2013/11/08 01:35:59

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    swamptooth
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 02:12:29 (permalink)
    Or set up an instance of dimension pro without a patch and label it "none". Then, you could select "none" in the midi output.
    Just kidding... sort of...

     
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    #2
    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 02:30:15 (permalink)
    Ha...the potential workarounds are endless 
     

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    thebiglongy
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 10:59:42 (permalink)
    Can't you just duplicate the track rather than Clone? To me "Clone" should be as it is described, all things linked, make changes to one, they are visible in the other.

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    jb101
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 12:02:11 (permalink)
    Not at my daw, but can't you archive the track?

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    jb101
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 12:02:11 (permalink)
    Not at my daw, but can't you archive the track?

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 13:25:37 (permalink)
    Yes, Archive is what I generally do in this case. And if I need the track to stay "live" but be silent for some reason, I mute the clip(s).

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 13:42:53 (permalink)
    If you have no intention of cloning any settings from the original (e.g. the synth it's routed to), just insert a new MIDI track and then ctl-drag the original clip(s) down into the new track.


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    #8
    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:08:47 (permalink)
    thebiglongy
    Can't you just duplicate the track rather than Clone? To me "Clone" should be as it is described, all things linked, make changes to one, they are visible in the other.




    How does one go about "duplicating" a track? All I can see is the option to clone it. And I realize that cloning a track should keep it linked to the original synth by default, but given that options are given in the cloning dialog as to what does and doesn't get cloned, surely the link should be an option too. The track would still be output to the synth, but the group behavior would be lost so that you could keep it muted without having to worry about it unmuting with the original synth track. 

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    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:10:32 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    Yes, Archive is what I generally do in this case. And if I need the track to stay "live" but be silent for some reason, I mute the clip(s).




    Ah yes, I hadn't thought of that!

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    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:11:35 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    If you have no intention of cloning any settings from the original (e.g. the synth it's routed to), just insert a new MIDI track and then ctl-drag the original clip(s) down into the new track.




    That works, as long as you don't want to preserve any of the settings found in the inspector e.g. snap to scale, arpeggiator settings etc. 

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    jb101
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:11:47 (permalink)
    You're welcome.
     
     
    Although I more often use Bit's method.

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    Grem
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:14:56 (permalink)
    Can't you unlink the clips after the clone?

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    #13
    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:39:56 (permalink)
    Grem
    Can't you unlink the clips after the clone?



    It's not that the clips are linked, it's that the track's mute/solo functionality is linked to the synth track it was originally linked to. You know how when you have an audio/MIDI pair linked to the same synth and their mute/solo buttons are grouped? The cloned track inherits that grouping. 

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    ...wicked
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:51:02 (permalink)
    Uh, but can't you just re-assign the track after you clone it? That's just a single pulldown.
     

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    ...wicked
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 14:51:29 (permalink)
    Or does it not allow to select "nothing"? (not at DAW right now)
     
     

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    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 15:43:32 (permalink)
    ...wicked
    Or does it not allow to select "nothing"? (not at DAW right now)  


    Nope, Sonar will not allow you to point a MIDI track at nothing.

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    konradh
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 16:09:21 (permalink)
    I have often just highlighted the whole track and held Control and Alt while dragging it down to bottom of the track list.  Sonar automatically creates a new MIDI track.

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    Grem
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 17:51:33 (permalink)
    sharke
    Grem
    Can't you unlink the clips after the clone?


    It's not that the clips are linked, it's that the track's mute/solo functionality is linked to the synth track it was originally linked to. You know how when you have an audio/MIDI pair linked to the same synth and their mute/solo buttons are grouped? The cloned track inherits that grouping. 


    Yes, I remember your last post about this now. There has to be a reason they implemented it this way.

    Not at my DAW, isn't there a "Duplicate" option? Or is audio tracks handled differently? Reason I ask is that I remember cloning audio tracks and not having them "linked" as you described.

    Also, are the mute and solo button's the only parameters that are linked?

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    ...wicked
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 18:55:21 (permalink)
    Hrm, I'll have to check this out myself. It's weird that the two will echo the Mute | Solo actions. Because if you manually created another track and put new data on it and it was routed to the same synth it would not do that. Mayhap you've found a bug!

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    jb101
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 19:04:34 (permalink)
    Or not.

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    Grem
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 22:18:04 (permalink)
    sharke, I checked when I got home. I can clone audio tracks and none of them display the behavior you say happens when you clone a soft synth. (I forgot to try that. But I will if you need tomorrow.) I had a guitar trak with info on it and fx in PC and stuff, and I cloned 4 instances. I hit the mute button on all of them one at a time and the only mute button that comes on was the one I would turn on. Same with Solo button.
     
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    sharke
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/07 22:44:08 (permalink)
    Grem
    sharke, I checked when I got home. I can clone audio tracks and none of them display the behavior you say happens when you clone a soft synth. (I forgot to try that. But I will if you need tomorrow.) I had a guitar trak with info on it and fx in PC and stuff, and I cloned 4 instances. I hit the mute button on all of them one at a time and the only mute button that comes on was the one I would turn on. Same with Solo button.
     
    Gotta get some sleep.




    To be clear, the grouping happens when you clone a MIDI track. When you insert a synth with a MIDI/audio output pair, the MIDI track's solo/mute buttons are grouped with the audio track. This makes sense, because you created them to work together as a pair. But when you clone the MIDI track, you also clone it's grouping with the audio track. They could of course create a "duplicate track" function, but that would make no sense unless it was possible to select "no output" for a MIDI track. If its output is to the original synth, then it might as well be grouped with the synth track. 
     
    So I guess what I want ideally is the option to duplicate a MIDI track along with all of its settings, but for it to have no output. For now, jb101's solution to clone the track and then archive it works well. 

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    Anderton
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/08 01:35:09 (permalink)
    sharke
    If it were possible to select "no output" on a MIDI track, the problem would be solved. Anyone else run up against this problem sometimes?



    Another option is to insert the Velocity MIDI plug-in and set velocity to 1. This has no advantage over archiving, other than reminding you the Velocity plug-in is really pretty cool...

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    John T
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/08 01:40:49 (permalink)
    I've ran into this use case before. Indeed, it came up earlier today. I'd really like a sort of beefed up "clone track" option, that would let me clone a synth setup. So basically, clone the midi track and the audio track (which you can do already), but also automatically invoke a new instance of the synth in question and sort out the routing. Bonus points if it was clever enough to also automatically select the same settings on the new instance of the synth, though I can see how that's a bit trickier.

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    jb101
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/08 03:07:44 (permalink)
    Anderton


    Another option is to insert the Velocity MIDI plug-in and set velocity to 1. This has no advantage over archiving, other than reminding you the Velocity plug-in is really pretty cool...


    :-)

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    thebiglongy
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    Re: Cloning a MIDI track should have an option to unlink it from the original synth 2013/11/08 09:23:59 (permalink)
    sharke
    thebiglongy
    Can't you just duplicate the track rather than Clone? To me "Clone" should be as it is described, all things linked, make changes to one, they are visible in the other.




    How does one go about "duplicating" a track? All I can see is the option to clone it. And I realize that cloning a track should keep it linked to the original synth by default, but given that options are given in the cloning dialog as to what does and doesn't get cloned, surely the link should be an option too. The track would still be output to the synth, but the group behavior would be lost so that you could keep it muted without having to worry about it unmuting with the original synth track. 



    You don't see it as it isn't there >.<
    I only have x1 and x2 installed on my laptop at the moment, I could have sworn there was a duplicate function which was unlinked and totally independent to the one you were copying. 

    I could have imagined it haha, was sure it was there in previous versions to the X series.

    Sorry to get your hopes up fella.

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