[Answered, thx all!] Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions

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mettelus
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2013/11/03 23:37:59 (permalink)

[Answered, thx all!] Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions

I began the search for a new audio interface tonight and started with things that come up often, but found many were not in stock, so putzed around some more and stumbled across the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 (and DSP model) which have high reviews.
 
First, to make sure I understand correctly... I have never used firewire, and my computer has one IEEE 1394 port on it. Is it correct to assume this is a Firewire 400 connection?
 
Second is more to get feedback from folks who own/use the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24. The reviews are high for this, and one reviewer even said he was up in 15 minutes using it with SONAR X2 (very nice review for a product that says "PT ready" ). I plan on sticking with Win 7 64 for a while, so assume drivers are stable. Are folks who use this satisfied with it? Is the DSP model a more preferred choice to have?
 
Thanks in advance!
Michael
post edited by mettelus - 2013/11/09 10:49:52

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    studio343
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 00:01:41 (permalink)
    I have a Saffire Pro 40.. same interface but with more I/O. It is a very stable interface and driver.. I went from Win 7 x64 to Win8 x64 and the interface didn't skip a beat. The drivers are even more mature now as they have seen an update or two since...
     
    The MixControl software CAN be confusing UNTIL you get your head around it.. once you do it's very easy.. and offers a ton of flexibility. I use it with X2 x64 and now with X3 and it's been rock solid.
     
    Hope this helps!!
    #2
    Living Room Rocker
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 01:01:40 (permalink)
    Other than to say that your question should have been posted in the Hardware forum, I own and use a Focusrite Pro 24 DSP.  It is an excellent piece of hardware and has been rock solid for me.  I bought the DSP version for the second headphone out.  It has excellent mix controls.  The only quibs I have about it is that the phones are duplicates of outs 3/4 and 5/6 respectively and there is a dedicated reverb send which will double your output even if the reverb is disabled.  So you have to either mute or bring the fader all the way down (unless, of course, you want reverb in your output) to avoid the duplicating the output.  I don't use the reverb channel so I have not configured a mix with sends to the reverb strip.  Sans those two minor things, you will not be disappointed with the 24 DSP.  And, yes, it is FW 400.
     
    I am confident I will continue to use my 24 since I use it via thunderbolt. I don't have to be concerned about toasting my FW controller or 24 this way.  The Apple FW to TB adapter works like a charm.
     
    I will look for you on the Hardware forum should you have any more questions about the subject.
     
    Kind regards,
     
    Living Room Rocker
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    Pragi
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 03:08:10 (permalink)
    The  Saffire 40  and Sonar X2 / X3 here , running stable as a rock,
     
    Basicly I would recommend a firewire -port with
    a TI (Texas Instruments )chip. There have been many users with issues 
    with onboard via chipsets aso. If there is no Ti chipset onboard, I
    recommend to buy one.
    The DSP feature would spare  to buy the VRM box, which could be a little help 
     in mixing by creating different monitor scenes. It depends on your room (treatment aso), if this makes sense to you .
    Some guys here recommend instead of that bying the IK´s Arc  .
    Room treatment is imo the pricier but for sure the more important "act" , if done right.
    The pre amps of the saffire´s are  neutral and  good . 
     
    Have fun
    Pragi
     
    post edited by Pragi - 2013/11/04 03:22:38
    #4
    cowboydan
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 03:52:54 (permalink)
    I own and use a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP. I have had this sound card since X1 without any problems whatsoever. I find that the only problem is the different configurations users would like in the Mix Control panel.
    If you only use one firewire connection you should have no problems since Texas Instruments are the main chipmakers for firewire.
    I bought an on board firewire print with three connections because I wanted another 8 microphones on board through the ADAT. I bought a Behringer Ultragain Pro 8 preamp that connects straight to my Focusrite. Also not a problem to find here.
     
    Have fun with your decission.
     
    Danny 
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    Tunerman
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 09:55:03 (permalink)
    Pro 24 here for 2 years. It is stable and sounds great! Have to agree with previous poster
    about the Mix Control software though. For me it was very confusing to learn.
    Even for a simple home studio setup like mine. Those Brit's just think a little differently
     than us Yanks. Be sure to check Mix Control and driver updates periodically.

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    #6
    AT
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 11:12:54 (permalink)
    Most FW ports are 400.  800 came out but so did USB 2/3, which are more common, and has replaced FW capabilities.  400 should be compatible w/ 800.  You can go in through the Win control panel and find out the drivers for the fw port so you can at least know where you are.
     
    With my TCK 48 I use a Via FW chip instead of a TI, which works fine.  But there are more likely to be problems w/ "other" chipsets like VIA.  On Win 7 I had to roll back the drivers - MS is always breaking something w/ FW it seems.
     
    And if you think the Focusrite soft mixer is confusing, try wrapping your head around the TC.  Those Danes ...
     


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    MachineClaw
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 13:13:35 (permalink)
    I own the Pro 24.  Love it.  great interface.  Not to keen on the mix console software but it's not that much of a biggy - set it up and move on, least for me.  If the price is right I would go for the Pro 24 DSP - as it has DSP and that is a nice feature.  I don't so don't really know much about what I am missing but for my small setup it's not a deal breaker at all.
     
    the Pro 24 comes with a Firewire 400 cable.  my Fiirewire card is 400/800 and I couldn't find a 800 cable to save my life that worked with the Pro 24 - I'm not sure the 800 cable the Pro 24 requires is standard or not.  I just use 400 and have not had any problems at all.  If you use 400 then you have to use the Pro 24 A/C  power cable, the 800 cable allows for the Pro 24 to be powered through the Firewire.
     
    the preamps are really great, latency is very low, drivers stable, works very well with Ableton Live, Reason, and Sonar X1d Producer and X3 Producer that I have in my setup.
    #8
    Living Room Rocker
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 13:31:32 (permalink)
    The VRM is most effective when monitoring through headphones (not so with monitors).  As for the powered FW cable, it is not whether it is a FW400 or 800 cable.  Power is sent over the six pin (400) cable whereas the four pin (400) does not supply power.

    Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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    Vastman
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 13:53:33 (permalink)
    I have the DSP version and love it.  However, I did find it worked much better with a TI firewire card (about $15 from newegg) as my asus motherboard had a via chipset and I struggled with periodic dropouts till I upgraded to a TI card.
     
     

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    StarTekh
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 15:13:46 (permalink)
    Mettelus: your board has a IEEE 1394
    VIA® 6308P controller
    2 x IEEE 1394a port(s)
    (1 at mid-board, 1 at back panel).......VIA firewire chipset..and it might work,but for 0 error  best  performance a Ti chipset firewire card is in order ....if you install another card please turn off in bios the onboard firewire 1st
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    jmasno5
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 15:26:24 (permalink)
    I struggled over the Safire and Scarlett USB. I went with the Scarlett because there is not a laptop out there with firewire port now a days. The USB works great on Win 7 64bit.
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    Splat
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 15:54:11 (permalink)
    Pro 40 here. It totally lives up to expectations.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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    Peter Morrison
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 16:05:45 (permalink)
    I have Pro 40 and my friend has Pro56. Great sound, very solid, but we never got to grips with the Mix control. It's a night school course on it's own.

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    Splat
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 17:15:41 (permalink)
    Mix control takes a couple of hours education and day session to get used to. You must need to read the documentation and watch the videos focusrite and YouTube provides. It's an excellent tool once you understand it... 

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Splat
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 17:18:57 (permalink)
    Your FireWire chipset should be fine.... I doubt an external card is needed (I use my internal FireWire interface).
    http://global.focusrite.c...ible-with-my-interface
     

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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    mudgel
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/04 19:01:55 (permalink)
    If going for an internal FW card make sure it's PCIe. Modern motherboards with PCI slots treat them as poorly implemented legacy devices. They often cause more problems than they fix.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    mettelus
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/05 01:37:42 (permalink)
    StarTekh
    Mettelus: your board has a IEEE 1394
    VIA® 6308P controller
    2 x IEEE 1394a port(s)
    (1 at mid-board, 1 at back panel).......VIA firewire chipset..and it might work,but for 0 error  best  performance a Ti chipset firewire card is in order ....if you install another card please turn off in bios the onboard firewire 1st


    Vastman
    I have the DSP version and love it.  However, I did find it worked much better with a TI firewire card (about $15 from newegg) as my asus motherboard had a via chipset and I struggled with periodic dropouts till I upgraded to a TI card.

    mudgel
    If going for an internal FW card make sure it's PCIe. Modern motherboards with PCI slots treat them as poorly implemented legacy devices. They often cause more problems than they fix.

    Thanks all for the responses! And yes, I know I posted in the wrong spot (I never claimed to be intelligent).
     
    Yup, the external FW connector on the motherboard and is listed as "VIA 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller" and the driver is MS and from 2006 (6.1.7601.17514). The external is a "6-pin" though, but the above suggestions I need to look into next. My graphics card is the ASUS model which covers two slots below it so checking the MB manual quick.... the PCI2 and the PCIEX16-3 slot are still usable (I think). I just jumped on Newegg to look and do not see a quick way to sort the TI chipset. I opened one and the details even said VIA. Is there a quick way to search these?
     
    The only other thing that comes to mind with the Saffire Pro 24 is that I would then still be using my Ozone as a MIDI controller, so would this force me into WDM mode at that point?
     
     

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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    mettelus
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/05 01:42:33 (permalink)
    Hmmm, if I use Google first, then drill into Newegg hits, it find them... products like these that "Feature TI chipset"?
     
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124107&Tpk=N82E16815124107

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    mudgel
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/05 02:00:37 (permalink)
    The Via chipset in newer MOBOs is well reported on so I'd give it a try. If there's a problem then buy a FireWire card. Also don't buy a combo FireWire USB card.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    Splat
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/06 13:55:59 (permalink)
    Mettelus did you click on the link I supplied?
    The PDF shows the chipset is fine.
     
    Cheers...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    rscain
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/06 15:54:06 (permalink)
    I'm running a Saffire Pro 24 DSP on a Via chipset and have had no problems at all. The Saffire is a great interface and it's easy to add inputs with the OctoPre unit (adds 8 inputs and pre amps).
    The Mix Control software isn't that hard to figure out and it's really flexible, allowing you all kinds of routing options.

    My Tunes On SoundClick  
     
     
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    Maarkr
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/06 18:24:56 (permalink)
    Had my Pro 24 for 3-4 or more years now... can't really remember.  Started going with Firewire on the mobo because it was faster and better than USB years ago.  It's been on AMD and Intel systems, Win XP and Win 7, Sonar Reason Cubase Reaper...no issues... called tech support once and the gal was very nice and knowledgeable.  It's no RME, but a great box for the money.

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    mettelus
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/07 19:18:13 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    Mettelus did you click on the link I supplied?
    The PDF shows the chipset is fine.
     
    Cheers...


    Alex, yes, I did, thank you. I simply ordered the 24 DSP without an additional card. Before "assuming" it will have issues I will check it out and go from there. From posts I have seen it should be fine, but will know tomorrow when it comes . I already downloaded and read the manual and most of it is on the mixing software!! Too funny.
     
    Everyone online had the same price for it, but Kraftmusic threw in a $40 set of headphones. Since mine are older than dirt, I ordered from them.

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    #24
    Splat
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/07 21:40:07 (permalink)
    :)

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    shmuelyosef
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/08 00:23:24 (permalink)
    I have had a Pro40 for five years now running with the mobo 1394 interface built into my Shuttle (see signature) system. Got the system and Saffire unit at the same time, but have used it with windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows 7 with various versions of Pro Audio, Sonar and Sonar Xn. Currently on X3c with no issues. 
     
    The best thing about the MixControl was how easy it was to set up once and then forget. I've got 3 mixes saved...one for tracking my trio (with headphone low latency mixes), one for my individual work (everything route individually), and one for mixdown flexibility. One button switches it all around with dedicated channels for the analog stereo mixer that I run my keyboards through and then six microphones of various ilk...I also like the fact that I can change ASIO buffer size with a single pull down on the MixControl, which I leave up on my second monitor with the synth control panels.

    - Sonar Platinum 64-bit; Reaper; Ableton Live 9; Samplitude
    - PugetSystems Serenity Mini: WIN 10-PRO 64-bit; Intel Quad i7-4670 turbo to 3.8GHz; 16GB RAM; ASUS Gryphon Z89 - Antec P180 case. 
    - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40
    - DSI OB-6 (love child of a Prophet and an Oberheim)
    - NORD Electro 3HP
    - Roland XP-10
    - Customized Fender-Rhodes Dyno Stage 73
    #26
    guigz2000
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/08 02:56:45 (permalink)
    Have a Saffire PRO 40 and a scarlett 2i2.
    It all work flawlessly if you have the good drivers (had problems at start because drivers weren't mature enough.There should be no problems anymore)
    Very good cheap soundcards (cheaper that rme or apogee).Sound is not cheap.
    #27
    Mystic38
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/08 09:57:32 (permalink)
    I have a motu 828mkIII hybrid usb/firewire and connected via firewire to ensure there was zero potential for bandwidth contest...rock solid performance and one very happy camper.. thinking of adding a second one.
     
     
    mettelus
    The only other thing that comes to mind with the Saffire Pro 24 is that I would then still be using my Ozone as a MIDI controller, so would this force me into WDM mode at that point?
     



    no..  just use the ozone as midi, and stick with saffire/asio for audio
     
     

    HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors
    Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
    #28
    mettelus
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/09 10:45:42 (permalink)
    Hi all,
     
       Thank you SO much for all of the inputs and recommendations. The Saffire 24 Pro DSP came in yesterday and I tinkered with it here and there, took breaks and finally stopped for the night. I was getting conflicts and latencies that were driving me crazy.
     
       Finally this morning it occurred to me to simply unplug the USB on my Ozone (the Ozone ASIO is resident in Windows and actually would take precedence over the Saffire, etc.). Then I had to scrounge for a MIDI cable I bought 15 years ago and never used and finally found it.
     
       Once I got my head around how best to start the machine up (i.e. the MixControl is the ASIO control panel) and route everything, the Saffire has such low latency it is unreal. Even the MIDI is faster, and it has a longer cable run! Very impressive. Not seen an issue with the VIA interface at all, so hopefully will stay that way.
     
       Thanks again!
       Michael

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #29
    Splat
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    Re: Firewire and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Questions 2013/11/09 10:55:02 (permalink)
    I could be wrong but the Ozone should work with USB without conflict. Try uninstalling the Ozone software, reinstalling the latest software with the bare minimum (just the driver). If there are any firmware updates for the Ozone go for it. Don't forget you need to configure it in Sonar preferences.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #30
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