ClarkPlaysGuitar
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Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
Hey everyone,
I recently got M-Tron Pro and I really love it. BUT - I am having trouble getting the exact sound I'm looking for for one of my recordings. I would really like that Mellotron sound that's on the first King Crimson album. If you listen to "Epitaph" & "In the Court of the Crimson King" you'll hear it. To me it's kind of a gritty string sound, but there might be other things blended in, I'm not certain. I've played around quite a bit with it, but I'm a guitar player & not really a keys guy so I don't have the ear to really analyze the Mellotron sounds. To me, the string sounds I've tried are all too refined, maybe. I know that sounds goofy, but I really like those early, lo-fi scratchy, wobbly tape sounds that the Mellotron produced. And M-tTron Pro has SO many sounds I have kind hit that "paralysis-of-analysis" phase. Lots of sounds I plan to use, but I just can't quite get the one I need at the monent.
If anyone uses M-Tron Pro and has any tips, I would really appreciate them. Thanks in advance!
Clark SONAR Platinum, Win10 x64, i5 quad-core, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlet 18i20g2, other stuff too boring to list (cheap tube pre, mid-range mics, etc)
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/24 19:14:34
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☄ Helpfulby ClarkPlaysGuitar 2017/09/24 19:16:22
M-Tron pro is great, but the sounds have been cleaned up a bit and there are some effects on certain patches. If you have something close, make sure all the effects are off to start with and only add them as required.
You are probably best avoiding the "Artist" patches and loading and tweaking banks manually unless there is one made for the job. (certainly if you are looking for Yes sounds the Rick Wakeman patches will get you very close)
Adding some saturation using a plugin in your DAW may help to add a bit of grit.
On "The Court of the Crimson King" there is either another sound layered over the strings or some sort modulation effect going on.
A good starting point for "Crimson" type tron is the "16 Violins" bank on layer A and the "M300 strings II" bank on layer B and play around from there. Adding a bit of the built in ensemble may help a bit.
Some of the classic 70's Mellotron sounds are strings and brass layered together, they still sound very much like strings though so its worth experimenting there too.
This is where I like the Hollow Sun NewTron Bomb II which is part of the the Prog Pack Probably the most out and out raw and gritty Mellotron samples to be had. Their newer product NewTron Bomb III is far more versatile and refined but lacks II's raw edge. Both of these products require the full version of Kontakt!
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ClarkPlaysGuitar
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/24 19:29:18
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Thanks, Glyn. I'll load those two in & start messing around with it. I'll check out Hollow Sun NewTron Bomb II, as well.
I also have an older version of SampleTron, which has some pretty Crimson-ish strings, but with all the power that M-Tron Pro has, I figured I should be able to get what I'm looking for in it, and then also have the ability to enhance it, as well. I really want to learn how to get the most I can out of M-Tron, but like everything else it does take time.
Thanks again for the tips!
Clark SONAR Platinum, Win10 x64, i5 quad-core, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlet 18i20g2, other stuff too boring to list (cheap tube pre, mid-range mics, etc)
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BassDaddy
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 14:40:18
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☄ Helpfulby ClarkPlaysGuitar 2017/09/25 16:38:36
I hope you find the sound you are looking for. That is always the dilemma with Tron sounds. Do you want it to sound like a tron or do you want it to sound, for the lack of a better word, good. If you have any lofi type plugins I would try getting as close as you can and then add the lo fi effect and see if that will get you there. Try adding some dirt, distortion and scoop the mids out on your patch that could inch you closer too.
It's Bass, not Bass. i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Cakewalk, Toontrack, IK, AAS, XLN, UVI, Air Music Tech, Waves Factory, Sample Tek and Sonivox VSTi's. Overloud, T-Racks, Audio Damage, D16, Nomad Factory, Waves Gold FX
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ClarkPlaysGuitar
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 16:37:47
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BassDaddy
That is always the dilemma with Tron sounds. Do you want it to sound like a tron or do you want it to sound, for the lack of a better word, good.
I know, right? Most of the soft-synth Mellotron clones try to do what the original meant to do, which is admirable & sometimes useful, but not always what we want, lol. It seems crazy to complain about something sounding too good, but really, much of the charm of those late 60s units was in the imperfections. I haven't had time yet to work with Glyn's suggestions; hopefully that will happen today. I will add your thoughts to the process & see what I come up with. As I make progress I'll add updates. Thanks for the suggestions, BassDaddy!
Clark SONAR Platinum, Win10 x64, i5 quad-core, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlet 18i20g2, other stuff too boring to list (cheap tube pre, mid-range mics, etc)
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ClarkPlaysGuitar
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 22:08:03
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So, here's an update. I got a chance to load up the "16 Violins" patch & "M300 Strings II" and play around with them. It was close, and I fussed around with lots of settings, but nothing was completely scratching that itch, so to speak. I was actually referencing "In the Court of the Crimson King" as I played around, which helped enormously. I could hear what I thought was octaves of the 'tron part, and began to think it was played in octaves, but the more I listened, the more I became convinced that I was hearing something besides string sounds from the 'tron. So I decided to test my search engine skills again & dug into the 'trons of that album. Wow. I learned a lot. It was a MK II, so that informed my next sound choices. Also, KC was using TWO MK IIs in the studio, in order to overcome the 8 second tape issue, and for recording multiple 'tron sounds in a single take. Sooooo....
I loaded bank A with "MK II Violins" and bank B with "MK II Brass," played with the bank levels some, and I think we are really, really close! What I have always thought of as the King Crimson 'tron string sound may actually be multiple 'trons playing multiple sounds & octaves, which could be why it is so hard to replicate. And luckily, M-Tron Pro allows us to essentially run two MK IIs at once, so we're able to get pretty close.
Are we allowed to post sound clips or links? I'll look into that & see if I can post a few seconds of the sound I currently have, and anyone with suggestions can put in their 2 cents.
Thanks for the tips, guys, it gave me a good starting point.
Clark SONAR Platinum, Win10 x64, i5 quad-core, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlet 18i20g2, other stuff too boring to list (cheap tube pre, mid-range mics, etc)
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Fleer
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 22:12:37
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Did you check the Streetly expansions?
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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bapu
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 22:20:42
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Yes you can post links. I believe you need to have something like 25 posts under your belt in order to do so. You could go to the songs forum and review a few of the songs there to quickly garner your post count.  Might I suggest you start with this guitar driven song? 
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bapu
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 22:21:38
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ClarkPlaysGuitar
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/25 22:35:43
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Fleer
Did you check the Streetly expansions?
No, not really. I sort of glanced over them one day, but decided that rather than spend $$ I would try to see what I could do with what I have. :-) (I'm not a very well paid anything at the moment... lol) Bapu, thanks for the tip. I'll make time to do that in the next day or two, and I'll post when I have something up to hear.
Clark SONAR Platinum, Win10 x64, i5 quad-core, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlet 18i20g2, other stuff too boring to list (cheap tube pre, mid-range mics, etc)
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BassDaddy
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/09/26 21:46:57
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It's Bass, not Bass. i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Cakewalk, Toontrack, IK, AAS, XLN, UVI, Air Music Tech, Waves Factory, Sample Tek and Sonivox VSTi's. Overloud, T-Racks, Audio Damage, D16, Nomad Factory, Waves Gold FX
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ClarkPlaysGuitar
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Re: Any M-tron Pro users? Looking for tips for King Crimson-ish strings
2017/10/03 17:53:23
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BassDaddy, that's one of the pages I used as a resource, and somehow I missed the double keyboard on the 'tron in that first pic. I think you could be right about some organ sound underneath the strings, as well. The patch I created with strings & brass is pretty close, but I will still play around with it some more. It has been an insanely busy week, hence my late reply, and I haven't touched the project since my last post.
I still need to jump over & give Bapu's tunes a listen and participate in some other threads, which hopefully will happen yet this week. This whole responsible husband/father/homeowner thing apparently takes up more time than one might imagine, lol. Thanks again to everyone for the help & tips & conversation!
Clark SONAR Platinum, Win10 x64, i5 quad-core, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlet 18i20g2, other stuff too boring to list (cheap tube pre, mid-range mics, etc)
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