Any hardened ProChannel users tried going back to VSTs?

Nice one Karl

John


Its getting hard to find a reason to use a normal VST. 

+1
 

I haven't made the flip over yet.  Reasons:-
1. Breverb -  I just can't seem to get the effects I want out of it.  I've tried but I get fed up wasting time and load Pantheon or Ozone5's reverb module.
2. It's too easy to have the wrong track in focus - 'why isn't this doing anything?' 
3. I find them fiddly.  Also, the curves on the EQ only move with massive (I'm talking 6"-10") drags with the mouse.  I wish there was some way of changing the 'gearing' here.
4. I've got FabFilter's L, C and Q modules and for me nothing beats their quality and ease of use and GUI information.

Chacun à son goût, etc.

I hardly use VSTs anymore unless it's really, really special (amp sims and such is not included in this statement). And those VSTs I can't live without I've thrown into a FX chain. It's great!

I only use the VSTs anymore to possibly color my sound in a different way, but have come to rely about 90% on the PC.  I love it and it really seems to work for me.  I rarely put anything on my master bus, as I use Ozone 5 on a stereo Master track of my song these days.  I DID use Console Emulation on my last tune's master bus however, and it added a bit of openess and warmth to the overall mix.  (S-Type I believe....the middle one.  LOL)

I agree about selecting the wrong PC often...and then wondering why my EQ changes aren't doing anything... only to find out I have totally screwed up another track altogether.. LMAO.  Honestly I don't know how that happens so frequently.  ...Something about track selection and Active Track I suppose....

Skyline_UK



4. I've got FabFilter's L, C and Q modules and for me nothing beats their quality and ease of use and GUI information.

+1

stevec

Also, the curves on the EQ only move with massive (I'm talking 6"-10") drags with the mouse. I wish there was some way of changing the 'gearing' here.

 
Try reducing the EQ graph's range - that's worked for me.
 

I see that only works for the Console one, not the Track one.  And changing it on the former doesn't reflect in the latter.  That's not clever.

i seem to be migrating to the PC FX chain for vst, just depends on how many plug-ins am using, if its something like a buss with th2 on it, feeding a synth line into it, ill just use the fx bin

Not using pro channel at all.  In fact, I don't enable the view. I did try it extensively but far prefer the variety of other source VST's. I have all of the Slate VST's, UAD2 quad with 20+ UA vsts', Kush UBK, A ton of Softube, Ozone5, all most everything Voxengo has ever done, a few Waves VST's and other odd's and ends. Of course, I still have outboard gear from Lexicon and TC.  As far as I am concerned, Pro Channel is anything but a "pro channel".  You want a pro channel? Great idea... how about making one that allows you to use any VST in any order in it.  Basically, this is what I do with effect chains presets.  For example, my standard bass preset is two VST's... UA VOG-LA2A.   I understand that "pro channel" may be a time saver for some, but it locks you into a preset VST pool controlled by Cake.... and that is marketing, not a pro approach.

" You want a pro channel? Great idea... how about making one that allows you to use any VST in any order in it" in x2 , but you can load vst's in any order in the pro channel with the pro channel fx chain

With my anemic system, I find I can do so much more with PCs than VSTs which seem to eat up my RAM/CPU faster.  And ultimately, I find the PC modules VERY musical... and, they work for me very well.
The PCs just seem so well integrated into Sonar, in my humble opinion of course.

Don't get me wrong.. I DO have a few favorite VSTs too.   :-)

If you can load different developers vst's in prochannel and it works properly, I have not figured out how to do this.  I know that the softube cake specific plugs will but I am unaware of anyway to set up Slate, UAD, et al...   What am I missing here? I am not the first person to comment on this. Yes...  I am using X2

FastBikerBoy


I have and just remembered why I don't use them any more unless I have to....

I'm currently working on a project where I need to use the Sonitus Compressor on several tracks and I've just proven that my own theory on the PC ergonomics is correct. I'm trying to tame the peaks on a guitar track and wondering why on earth the compressor isn't working.

In desperation I start to reduce the threshold all the way down and hear the drums being squashed down to nothing. Yep...... I've got the wrong Compressor window in focus.

Back to the nice convenient prochannel as soon as possible for me.

I think this is more indicative of an area where Sonar should improve, rather than showing where it excels at something. What I mean by that is: Studio One and Logic both have excellent plugin menus that 1) tell you what track your on and 2) allow you to navigate from effect to effect from the plugin menu. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure you can even navigate to different tracks. That means you can do all your navigating without ever having to look at the Console or Track views just from plugin menus. That'd be a huge plus to Sonar.


Frankly, I think Pro Channel has a couple of major problems:


1. The majority of PC plugins are mediocre at best. The 1176 is "eh," the SSL Comp is "eh," the EQ is "good, but nothing magical" the saturation knob is "bleh," the Console emulator makes me really appreciate all the work that went into VCC, Breverb is good. Haven't used anything else, but I'd rather not compromise my mixes by using sub-par PC plugins when I have much better plugin alternatives.


2. Portability is non-existent. Great, so I nailed a sound using Pro Channel plugins, but now I want to transfer that project to Pro Tools or another host...if everything on that channel was a VST/RTAS/AAX plugin, I can just save the preset and reopen it in whatever DAW I want to move to, and recreate the channel strip. Can't do that with Pro Channel plugins because they are a...


3. Closed Platform. If Pro Channel as a format only works in Sonar, then it's a closed format and I have no interest in that. It's a bad direction for DAW's to go in. Imagine all DAW's had unique plugin formats? It would completely fragment the marketplace. I just can't, in any good conscious, support closed plugin formats within a DAW. See #2 for why openness is important.


4. Loading VST plugin effects into a Pro Channel is buggy. I've had crashes and multiple parameters getting assigned to a single plugin. Not cool. I'd rather just use the plugin as an insert effect in the bin. I like the idea of FX Chains, but again, the closed nature of it is disappointing.

No... they do not display correctly. That is doing what I am already doing sans Pro Channel with effects chains. Everything that Cake sells as a VST can be set up as a module in this which displays with a useable  control panel.  You can not do that with other VST's.  I understand what you are saying,but the only way it would make sense to me is if you can create a module out of any VST that displays like the CW products.  That will never happen as Pro Channel is a dedicated marketing tool specifically designed to sell cake vst's and third party vst's that are ported and have a financial arrangement with cake.   I am not being critical of the corporate side of cake/roland. I understand it.

I fail to understand the difference between double clicking on a VST in the PC or double clicking on it in the FX bin.

You can create your own interface using the FGX chain GUI, if you mean an auto creating interface, I shudder to think of the possible combinations / work involved in that.