Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU?

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jimoliver
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2017/08/01 00:01:11 (permalink)

Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU?

PC desktop win 7 (studio cat)
 
With no issues, I've been using Protools and Cubase with a Dante PCIeR card from Focusrite as well as a Lynx aurora 16 with the Dante Card in it. It works flawlessly in PT and Cubase..... Sonar not so good... at all. My CPU usage (as shown in task manager) goes SKY HIGH. like between 40 and 98% when sonar is open. close sonar and it goes away. I do get audio playback and record but my computer soon gets psychotically HOT due to the insane cpu usage. In other Daws,as well as adobe premiere i am seeing a normal CPU usage of about 4% sometimes 8%. super different from the 98% that sonar causes.
Sonar has been out of commission since the studio upgraded to Dante (which has been AMAZING other than sonars issues) which was about 4 months ago. would love to get sonar up to date like the rest of the Daws out there!
The issue was confirmed by Audinate (dante chip manufacturer) and Focusrite to be on sonars end and im really hoping they can figure this one out. after all sonar is the best.
post edited by jimoliver - 2018/04/06 06:19:04
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    GaryMedia
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2017/08/04 13:43:50 (permalink)
    I am in the market to buy a Dante PCIe card, so I'm watching this issue.  I also have *many* questions, but I'll keep it down to three:
    1. Do you have a trouble ticket open with Sonar support?  
    2. Anything unusual about your Windows/PC latency settings/configuration that might be a clue?
    3. Is it one core or multiple cores that are pinned 100%?

    CbB Win10 | Mac Pro 12-core 3.33GHz/48GB | TCL 55" 4K UHD | 480GB SSD | 6TB HDD RAID-5 array| 1.5TB SSD RAID-0 array | Midas M32 | 2x Audient ASP800 |  UAD-2 Duo PCIe | Adam A7X.
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    #2
    JBelthoff
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/02/11 00:59:51 (permalink)
    Did you ever get this resolved?
    #3
    jimoliver
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/06 06:36:04 (permalink)
    The CPU meters in sonar do not indicate the High CPU usage, its only when i started noticing that the computer fans were coming on within minutes of using sonar that i checked in task manager and saw the crazy CPU readings. my comp would get up to 140 degrees rather quick. a normal temp is 118. as far as latency settings. there are no changes in the cpu with changes to latency settings. i tried setting the card ranging from 250us to 5ms and buffer size from 64 to 1024.
    Dante virtual soundcard works ok but has an asio latency minimum of like 13ms, not great for tracking, and the latency with a dante card, as you probably know, is like 2 or 3ms and overall more solid than DVS (as i discovered while using the pcie card with protools and cubase)
    I've written bandlab and posted about the issue many times. its almost like people dismiss dante cause its not as popular but once you setup your switch and computer settings to be optimal for networked audio then you quickly see why dante is so amazing. add 16 or 64 channels instantly without latency anywhere there is a network cable. we have done some beautiful studios that are dante based and the possibilities are great.
    #4
    jimoliver
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/06 06:37:28 (permalink)
    still no resolution of this issue, even with the new release from Bandlab.
    #5
    Swinhart
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/09 14:43:39 (permalink)
    Hey Guys,  I have been using my hp laptop with SONAR 8.3 for the past year on a Dante network to three mixers in our church.  I installed two MY-16 cards on our Yamaha M7CL mixer.  The first requirement was that the network connection on the laptop had to be a gigabit port (which mine is).  I had to set some buffers higher.  Now for the most part, the setup is quick and easy, bring in laptop, connect network cable, run SONAR and record up to 64 tracks.  There have been a few issues along the way, but most have been resolved.  I still have one nagging issue and that may have more to do with SONAR than Dante.  CPU runs 15 to 40% and never kicks the fan into high speed.

    Having fun with 32 tracks in OKC
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    #6
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/09 18:56:17 (permalink)
    jimoliver
    The issue was confirmed by Audinate (dante chip manufacturer) and Focusrite to be on sonars end and im really hoping they can figure this one out. after all sonar is the best.



    I really don't see how a Dante issue could be caused at the DAW level. Its just exposed as an ASIO driver right? SONAR doesn't even know its a Dante interface. Just noticing a problem in one host doesn't necessarily mean the issue lies in the host. However if they have "confirmed" it to be a problem in SONAR then I'd be very interested in knowing what they think the issue is and will work with them to resolve it if it indeed is on our end.
    We'll need them to send us an interface to test with obviously since we don't have any Dante interfaces to test with.
    Feel free to put whoever is concerned on their end in touch with me.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
    #7
    jimoliver
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/10 04:51:28 (permalink)
    Swinhart
    Hey Guys,  I have been using my hp laptop with SONAR 8.3 for the past year on a Dante network to three mixers in our church.  I installed two MY-16 cards on our Yamaha M7CL mixer.  The first requirement was that the network connection on the laptop had to be a gigabit port (which mine is).  I had to set some buffers higher.  Now for the most part, the setup is quick and easy, bring in laptop, connect network cable, run SONAR and record up to 64 tracks.  There have been a few issues along the way, but most have been resolved.  I still have one nagging issue and that may have more to do with SONAR than Dante.  CPU runs 15 to 40% and never kicks the fan into high speed.


    Thank you for your post! i always liked sonar 8.3 however the issues i am finding are with the use of the flagship interface cards like the PCIeR card from Focusrite Rednet. So unless your using an external chassis to run a dante card then it is a different scale of dante i am using. Dante Virtual sound card does work with sonar although its performance and reliability are not up to par for a pro environment... that is why a DVS license is $10 and the Dante Rednet PCIeR cards are $1000. These cards provide performance that sets the standard for low latency, reliability and expansion. Truly amazing to be able to get so many additional channels with state of the art conversion anywhere that there is ethernet in a facility....especially with real time/ low latency like 2 or 3ms.
    i do hope we can get Dante PCIE fully compatible with Cakewalk someday!
     
    -Jacy
    #8
    jimoliver
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/10 05:36:14 (permalink)
    Hi Noel, thank you for your reply!
    The problem seems to be with How Cakewalk uses the ASIO driver for the Focusrite Rednet PCIeR Dante card. I have used Protools 12, Cubase 9, Studio one 3 artist, Ableton live 8, Reaper 5, Adobe Audition CC, Adobe Premier, and Sadly, to my surprise and dismay, SONAR/Cakewalk has been the only daw to respond this way. The CPU gets driven to seriously freaky levels (40-100%) and often will lock up the whole computer when setting I/O in sonar. Seen this happen on multiple, very nice computers yet not a trace of an issue with protools or others. I am not a fan of PT and I've had to use it and Reaper for tracking for a year (since switching the  production studio to Dante PCIe). For editing i still LOVE and use Sonar/Cakewalk with Dante Virtual Soundcard (software made by Audinate that uses a computers existing ethernet port for digital audio traffic rather than the dedicated/ advanced PCIe card). Though the latency performance is marginal with DVS it does work with cakewalk and theoretically the ASIO driver is either similar or identical which is what confuses everyone especially Audinate! Clearly there is someone out there that can figure this out considering i have read reports that the Odeus driver wrapper called ASIO LINK PRO did provide a complicated workaround that did allow the use of a PCIE card without the CPU issue. It seems like its no longer a viable approach at this time due to their site getting badly hacked. The specifics of the performance quality were never determined before the software became unavailable. Only a trial version was tested to my knowledge.
     
    Back when Cakewalk was owned by Gibson Focusrite did offer to connect with Cakewalk to get to the bottom of this but do to the impending transition of Cakewalk there was little to no effort made by cakewalk to get in touch with Focusrite. Perhaps now that Cakewalk is in good hands again i can reconnect with Focusrite and see if they will be able to offer an interface and card. Not sure they will based on the cost of the units. Interfaces are like $4,000. and the PCIeR card is $1000 and you also need to setup a configurable network switch (cisco SG 300 if i remember right) with with proper QOS settings and disable EEE. 
     
    I know its a pain to track this down but Cakewalk by Bandlab deservers to stand among the rest and offer compatibility with this truly superior means of Recording.
     
    I use a Lynx aurora 16 DNT (dante) with the Rednet PCIeR card in a Studio Cat Computer, i believe you're familiar ;) running win 10 pro 64 bit. I have also verified with Focusrite and Audinate that my motherboard, GPU and overall specs of the computer are compatible with Rednet/Dante and again the only problem i have running other DAWS with my setup is that they aren't Cakewalk.
     
    Thanks again for your help and i can't even begin to tell you how happy i am that Cakewalk still exists and has a chance to be polished!
     
    - Jacy oliver
     
    #9
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/10 19:41:45 (permalink)
    Hi Jim,
     
    You can PM me or email me directly and we can try and trouble shoot it. If I had access to the setup I could probably figure out in a few minutes what is going wrong and if it indeed is internal to our application. Its going to be hard / expensive to set up this inhouse so its best that the hardware vendor does some analysis on their end with us. 
    Maybe I can send you an instrumented build to see if we can capture something. I've worked with several vendors in the past and figured out stuff remotely so it should be possible. If its ASIO related they should be able to give us some more information about any abnormal call sequences etc.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
    #10
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/04/29 12:52:43 (permalink)
    Just a follow up that this issue has been resolved. I did several troubleshooting sessions with Jacy remotely and was able to find the root cause of the issue which is that the Audinate driver doesnt respond well to specific ASIO call sequence which was resulting in excessive threads being created by the ASIO driver leading to CPU drain.
    I have also reported this to the Audinate engineers and they are also investigating it from their end. ASIO is notorious for being a loose specification and this results in numerous incompatibilities due to different interpretations of state management.
     
    I was able to work around this from our code and after we do more regression testing we should be able to release the fix in our next update. Jacy has already verified that the fix works on his system. I'm glad that this is resolved and Dante users will be able to use CbB. Performance is actually very good after this fix and Jacy reported better CPU performance that ProTools on the same system with similar project load. Thanks Jacy for hanging in there and allowing me to troubleshoot your PC remotely. It was an interesting issue to debug :)

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
    #11
    jimoliver
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    Re: Any success with using a Dante Rednet PCIeR card as an interface with sonar? High CPU? 2018/05/01 17:44:03 (permalink)
    BIG NEWS ABOUT DANTE PCIE COMPATIBILITY WITH CAKEWALK BY BANDLAB!! IT WILL WORK!
     
    Hello everyone, this is Jacy Oliver (Jim's son) on behalf of the Oliver Music Studio and Potion Productions.
     
    I spent days working closely with Noel Borthwick (Senior Manager Audio Core, Bandlab) and through running diagnostic tests, clever thinking, maxing out my CPU in the name of science, using the tips I've gathered over the last year and a half, and a bit of trial by error, Noel was able to pinpoint the issue at the root of this serious incompatibility with high performance audio over ethernet PCIe soundcards like the Focusrite Rednet PCIeR and other cards that share the Audinate chip set.
     
    It appears that the Driver for the PCIe cards may not have been tested with a sample rate conformity call in the start up sequence of the ASIO Driver. That call was causing the driver of the PCIE card to duplicate threads until the CPU of the computer was Maxed Out! It shouldn't do that and more testing should be done by Audinates engineers since a sample rate call is a common and smart thing to add to a start sequence so that ASIO devices know what the project sample rate is.
     
    For now i have a beta build from Noel that has that bit of code removed and it WORKS!!
    Of course steps have to be taken to ensure that the build will be suitable for all other ASIO interfaces as well now that a step that has been in the code for 12 years has been removed in order to make this work. Since other DAWs also work with the gamut of ASIO enabled devices including Dante cards I'm sure its going to be a non issue!
     
    Good things on the horizon for Cakewalk and those who wish venture to use the best!
    Now that i have a working build i can continue testing but i gotta say that after a year and a half and thousands of dollars spent on Tech i couldn't use, IM VERY HAPPY WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF MY SYSTEM.
    Im running tracking sessions at 1.3 MS ROUNDTRIP with a couple of basic plugins! Latency is no longer an issue and its freaky how instantaneous it is after being used to hearing 10-16 MS of latency from using usb or Virtual Soundcard. Plus now it have all the other many benefits of Dante!!
     
     Stay tuned and feel free to ask me any questions!
    - Jacy
     
     
     
    #12
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