Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks?

Author
JCody
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 227
  • Joined: 2013/10/25 12:43:40
  • Status: offline
2016/11/29 16:58:59 (permalink)

Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks?

 
Wow, I just started a midi project and it's been awhile. I find that LOTS of controller data is being dumped into my tracks without even playing anything. Lots of random stuff including Pitch Wheel. I was all of a sudden discovering that my samples were drifting out of tune because of it. The work around for now is to make sure that my input is NOT assigned to the controller I'm using. I've been going to All Inputs ch 1 and then everything is fine. Anyone else experiencing this?
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 17:10:10 (permalink)
    SONAR doesn't add pitch bend data by itself, so this sounds like a hardware issue...if it's a USB controller, do you bus-power it? Does it have the option to add an AC adapter? Are you using a laptop? If it's on the edge in terms of current drain, it might do what you're describing. Or a component could be failing.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #2
    promidi
    Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1220
    • Joined: 2014/11/21 18:46:39
    • Location: South Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 17:13:41 (permalink)
    Not happening here.  Are you sure it's not your controller is not sending the controller data to Sonar.  I know one of the sliders on my PCR-800 does this (I have had to disable that particular slider)

    Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . 
    PCR-800 Controller.  (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)
    CPU: i5 4670. 
    Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers).
    Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen

    Internet always on.

    Software
    : Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
    ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples 
    Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
    #3
    JCody
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 227
    • Joined: 2013/10/25 12:43:40
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 17:14:11 (permalink)
    It's pretty weird. But it's doing it on two different computers and three different midi keyboards. It almost seems like a bug in Sonar.
    #4
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 17:18:14 (permalink)
    It just doesn't seem possible that SONAR could have that kind of bug if no one else is experiencing it. Something has to be creating controller data. Are you using the same project with two different computers and three different keyboards, or does this happen with different projects? Maybe there's a plug-in that generates MIDI data?

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #5
    JCody
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 227
    • Joined: 2013/10/25 12:43:40
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 17:24:32 (permalink)
    I'm working on the same projects at different locations. It's really weird. It could be my template that I work from. I'm just curious if anyone's seen this before. It dumps so much information that it slows things down if I open the piano roll view with the controllers visible. I'm so glad that changing the input at least makes things bearable. Definitely strange.
    #6
    JCody
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 227
    • Joined: 2013/10/25 12:43:40
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 18:07:30 (permalink)
    OK, I just noticed something on the rig I'm using. Maybe it's in the template but the input has TWO inputs assigned. The fireface 800 midi AND the keyboard. Maybe they're fighting it out and throwing controllers all over the place.
     
     
    #7
    BRainbow
    Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 399
    • Joined: 2004/03/14 01:39:12
    • Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 18:32:36 (permalink)
    You might want to use a program that monitors incoming MIDI data and see what's going on.  I do that with MIDI Quest when I have an issue, but there are cheaper/free alternatives.  Check out this link:
     
    https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209544729-How-to-Monitor-the-Input-of-a-MIDI-Controller
     
    And you can always use the MIDI filter check boxes in Sonar preferences to prevent recording of specific controllers while you work it out. 

    Cakewalk (forever), Two WIN10 64-bit DAWs: home-brew ASRock x299 Taichi / i7 7820x w/ 64GB RAM and ASUS X99A-II / i7-5820K w/ 32GB RAM, ZOOM UAC 8, Mackie ONYX 1640i FW Mixer/Interface, Mackie ONYX 1200F, Avalon U5 PreAmp, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, EastWest Composer CloudX, Yamaha MOTIF XS8, Ensoniq SD-1 and ESQ-1, Korg M1rEX, Yamaha TX-81Z, Roland D110, Line6 HELIX Rack and Native, POD HD-Pro, POD Farm 2.5, Yamaha NS-10 and Presonus Eris E8 monitors, Yamaha Disklavier Upright Piano, mics, guitars, basses, and the cutest little tambourine.
    #8
    JCody
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 227
    • Joined: 2013/10/25 12:43:40
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 18:34:56 (permalink)
    Thanks! Your avatar make me want to go Surfing!
    #9
    BRainbow
    Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 399
    • Joined: 2004/03/14 01:39:12
    • Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 18:37:22 (permalink)
    Hey, JCody, I just edited my post above to include a great link.  Check it out.
     
    And, the surf is pretty cold and blustery today.  You don't want to go out.

    Cakewalk (forever), Two WIN10 64-bit DAWs: home-brew ASRock x299 Taichi / i7 7820x w/ 64GB RAM and ASUS X99A-II / i7-5820K w/ 32GB RAM, ZOOM UAC 8, Mackie ONYX 1640i FW Mixer/Interface, Mackie ONYX 1200F, Avalon U5 PreAmp, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, EastWest Composer CloudX, Yamaha MOTIF XS8, Ensoniq SD-1 and ESQ-1, Korg M1rEX, Yamaha TX-81Z, Roland D110, Line6 HELIX Rack and Native, POD HD-Pro, POD Farm 2.5, Yamaha NS-10 and Presonus Eris E8 monitors, Yamaha Disklavier Upright Piano, mics, guitars, basses, and the cutest little tambourine.
    #10
    robert_e_bone
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 8968
    • Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
    • Location: Palatine, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 18:51:55 (permalink)
    I began to have constant pitch bend messages being sent by one of my midi controllers, and it turns out it is due to cheap components in the hardware of the controller.  Apparently several different brands of keyboards and controllers have the potentiometers that are connected to the pitch bend wheels end up wearing out, and then they start generating random crap that gets picked up by Sonar.
     
    For MY situation, I went into edit mode on the controller and I turned off Pitch Bend altogether.  It had been making things play back out of tune anytime I played something on that controller.
     
    I used Midi OX (Edited to correct) to monitor the data, but you could also just arm a midi track and hit record and let it run for a minute, and it will capture any of that random data.  Then you can look at the Event List for that track to see what is being spewed out.
     
    Bob Bone
     
    post edited by robert_e_bone - 2016/11/30 13:17:39

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #11
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/29 22:08:56 (permalink)
    JCody
    OK, I just noticed something on the rig I'm using. Maybe it's in the template but the input has TWO inputs assigned. The fireface 800 midi AND the keyboard. Maybe they're fighting it out and throwing controllers all over the place.



    Another possibility is that a MIDI feedback loop has been created.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #12
    pwalpwal
    Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3249
    • Joined: 2015/01/17 03:52:50
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/30 08:37:10 (permalink)
    are cakewalk making sure that templates are backwards compatible with each update? if you recreate the same setup as the template from a blank, do you get the same issue?

    just a sec

    #13
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
    Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2819
    • Joined: 2011/02/03 04:31:35
    • Location: Sound-Rehab, Austria
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/30 08:50:59 (permalink)
    I would check if your are sending out MIDI data from Sonar which is echoed back in from the controllers e.g. MIDI clock ... this would be project dependent and hence happen across setups.

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
      +++   Visit the Rehab   +++
     
    DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600
    Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture)   Control-Surface: VS-700C 
    VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really) 
    #14
    Whistlekiller
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50
    • Joined: 2013/01/31 04:40:44
    • Location: North Lincolnshire
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/30 09:03:42 (permalink)
    I put a thread up not so long back about un-requested MIDI pitch changes occurring. there were a few answers given, and in the end, and after a lot of faffing about it seems that the culprit was/still is my Alesis Q49 keyboard which seems intent on dropping everything I do by a semi-tone (not a full tone as I originally explained I might add) so indicating a fault in it's make-up. Disconnecting it removes the problem from the playbacks although I now have to temporarily rely on a Yamaha 88 note keyboard for keyboard inputs and that takes up a little too much real estate for my liking!

    X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
    #15
    abacab
    Max Output Level: -30.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4464
    • Joined: 2014/12/31 19:34:07
    • Status: offline
    Re: Anyone Getting TONS of unwanted controller data in your midi tracks? 2016/11/30 11:54:26 (permalink)
    JCody
     
    Wow, I just started a midi project and it's been awhile. I find that LOTS of controller data is being dumped into my tracks without even playing anything. Lots of random stuff including Pitch Wheel. I was all of a sudden discovering that my samples were drifting out of tune because of it. The work around for now is to make sure that my input is NOT assigned to the controller I'm using. I've been going to All Inputs ch 1 and then everything is fine. Anyone else experiencing this?




    A great little free MIDI utility that can monitor any messages coming from your controllers is MIDI-OX.
     
    Watch all MIDI port activity and monitor messages in real-time.
     
    Just shut down Sonar and fire this up.  Should rule out Sonar if you still see the spurious controller data.
     
    http://www.midiox.com/
     

    DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
    #16
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1