Helpful ReplyAnyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off?

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hurleyinnh
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2018/02/04 02:47:58 (permalink)

Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off?

They should not have been selling a product when they knew they were shutting down, not very nice, for the trusting consumer anyway.
 
Out of principle I stopped using Sonar, I am back using Audacity until I get the cash to buy a supported and updated piece of software from what I hope now will not be a company that will rip me off.
 
I purchased 10/28/17 they state they shut down 11/17/17 I received no notice they where done.
 
Updates and Support are two of the main features in purchasing the software which I had paid for and cannot use less than one month after I had purchased the software. Sonar made no notice direct to me the customer, I found out from a friend that also uses Sonar and he had been to a reseller’s website and saw that they were no longer selling Sonar software. That is when he went to the Sonar website and saw they had closed the business and had told me, otherwise I would not have known until I visited the web sites home page.
 
I think what they did was illegal, it sure is unethical. Probably not enough people got burned by Gibson for anyone to bother to do any kind of class action suit. I don’t have the time or money to chase these monkeys.
 
  1. 1.       No more updates
From the CalkWalk website   here is what they state about Sonar updates that were to be included in the price but will no longer be provided since the company has been closed.
“SONAR now boasts a powerful new line up designed to meet the needs of any musician, regardless of skill level or budget. You always get the latest and greatest version no matter when you make your purchase. In addition, ****enjoy 12 months of rolling updates***** and keep everything you received - forever.”
Also on the same web page is a matrix of Core Features of the different versions of Sonar software and for Sonar Pro the version I purchased the second Core Feature in the list “Updated” shows that *****Sonar Pro would be updated on a Monthly basis. *****
 
According to the Sonar web sites main page   they are no longer releasing updates.
 
“Today we say Thank You to all of our users past and present, for helping make Cakewalk a staple in the world of digital audio for 30 years. Gibson Brands has officially announced the end of active development of Cakewalk branded products, but our site and servers will remain active for those who have made our products a part of their workflow. This change will not affect the performance of current or legacy versions of SONAR in any way. While *****we are no longer releasing updates*****, the ways you can access your products will remain the same. For users with a rent-to-own plan, your payments have been automatically discontinued and we have unlocked SONAR so you can continue using the software without interruption.“
 
From CakeWalks knowledgebase FAQ web page there will be no updates.
 
“I purchased SONAR within the last year, what happens with updates?
If you have purchased within the last year, you own the product outright. *****We will no longer be able to offer monthly updates******, but you will still be able to utilize the version of SONAR you own.”
 
  1. 2.       Support has been stripped and is very limited to what would be expected if the company were still in business.
According to the Sonar web sites main page   moving forward there will be limited staff, and how long will that staff be available.
“Moving forward, *****a small transition team will remain active to help****** and our Knowledge Base and User Forum will also remain intact for those in need of technical assistance. Please visit the following links for more information:”
 
From CakeWalks knowledgebase FAQ web page they state that there will only be limited support.
“What type of support should we expect moving forward?
*******Technical support is available on a limited basis for members******* with an active SONAR membership. We encourage legacy users to utilize our Knowledge Base and User Forum for help with older versions.”
 
  1. Lets add insult to injury
 
 
#1
DannyDee
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 03:14:07 (permalink)
your insight is intriguing
and thought provoking
old ideas presented
as exciting new concepts.
perhaps you have a blog,
a book or a video
that we could publicize?
Now we can move forward.
bless you
 
#2
pwalpwal
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 13:32:39 (permalink)
i think cakewalk were as surprised as the rest of us, but you're correct in stating that they could have informed the users better, like, sent an email or something...

just a sec

#3
sharke
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 15:39:11 (permalink)
You have to love these people who have just found out and rush to the forum to let us all know. Yeah thanks for that copy and paste of an announcement that everyone's been discussing ad infinitum for 2 months.

James
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#4
paulo
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 16:29:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2018/02/05 13:48:41
sharke
You have to love these people who have just found out and rush to the forum to let us all know. Yeah thanks for that copy and paste of an announcement that everyone's been discussing ad infinitum for 2 months.



Hardly their fault that they didn't know if the company who took their money for something they're never going to get didn't even have the decency to tell them. CW always said that forum members were only a small proportion of their customer base, so if this is true why did they see fit to actively not tell the majority of their customers instead of just the minority? Would it really have been so difficult to put the announcement into an email and select send to all?
 
Ok, we all know that sending an email to all of their customers at the same time has always seemed to be be beyond them somehow, but they didn't even try and that is just piss poor IMO. 
 
 
 
 
#5
Just Another Bloke
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 17:43:25 (permalink)

Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off?

 
No.
#6
jamesg1213
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 18:21:23 (permalink)
I understand people not finding out till now. As far as I recall, Cakewalk is the only software forum I've ever joined. If any of the other software I use/have used in the past was discontinued, it'd be a while before I knew about it.  I have Studio One, but still haven't joined the Presonus forum.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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#7
ampfixer
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 18:52:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/02/04 22:26:28
I think it's better to have the rug pulled out after being a loyal customer for a month, rather than have the rug pulled out after 10 or 20 years of pumping money into it. 

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#8
sharke
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 19:21:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bdickens 2018/02/09 18:21:36
Personally I think it's madness not to keep abreast of developments in the software you use every day. Cakewalk's failings aside, surely there's some kind of responsibility to yourself to check in every once in a while. There are really no excuses these days, unless you don't have an internet connection. There's the company site, the forums, Twitter feeds, Facebook feeds - pick one. So easy. 

James
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#9
jamesg1213
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 19:36:00 (permalink)
That depends on whether anyone's actually updating those outlets. Cakewalk announced it was ceasing on Jan 8th on Facebook, 6 weeks after the event.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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#10
paulo
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 21:35:39 (permalink)
sharke
Personally I think it's madness not to keep abreast of developments in the software you use every day. Cakewalk's failings aside, surely there's some kind of responsibility to yourself to check in every once in a while. There are really no excuses these days, unless you don't have an internet connection. There's the company site, the forums, Twitter feeds, Facebook feeds - pick one. So easy. 




Believe it or not there are still plenty of people who don't use Twitter or Facebook and never will.
 
That aside, why should it be up to the customer to find out if the vendor of something that they have just bought is still in business or not on a regular basis ?  The last year or so of CW I got emails all the time with various tempting or not ways to give them money, but the one time they actually had some info that it actually would be useful to know......
 
 
 

 
 
 
Think of it this way - if you moved house would you consider it up to your family and friends to find out for themselves what became of you, or for you to tell them where you've gone ?
 
(yeah, okay there's probably a few that I might "forget" to tell)
 
 
It just comes down to basic respect for the people who have supported you for many years in some cases and it would have cost them nothing, which given that Noel was last heard of still advising patience in the jumping of ship and suggesting that maybe it isn't completely over and done with yet, makes even less sense. 
 
 
#11
MandolinPicker
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 21:45:27 (permalink)
There's plenty of good reasons to not know that Cakewalk had ceased - including that some of their products were being pushed out to the public right at the time they stopped production. Several music magazines had stories related to Cakewalk's 30th Anniversary in the month that things came to halt. I believe Computer Music was giving away Home Studio around the same time as well. In fact, the give-away may be responsible for more people knowing about Cakewalk's demise than anything else, as they would see the shutdown announcement when they came to the main web site to activate their copy.

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#12
paulo
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 21:55:43 (permalink)
MandolinPicker
I believe Computer Music was giving away Home Studio around the same time as well. In fact, the give-away may be responsible for more people knowing about Cakewalk's demise than anything else, as they would see the shutdown announcement when they came to the main web site to activate their copy.




How CW marketing dept is that? 
 

#13
sharke
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 22:11:39 (permalink)
paulo
 
 
Believe it or not there are still plenty of people who don't use Twitter or Facebook and never will.
 

 
Which is why I said:
 
There's the company site, the forums, Twitter feeds, Facebook feeds - pick one.

 
I certainly wouldn't have 100% trust in the developer of a program I use to email me to tell me they were stopping development. 
 
I use Adobe Illustrator and Premiere from time to time as well, and when I do, the first thing I do is head to the Adobe forums to see if there have been any updates or changes I should know about. 
 
Bottom line is that we don't know the reason for Cakewalk not emailing everyone on its email list. From what's been said it seems that the closure happened quickly and knocked everyone for six. It could be that the "skeletal staff" who remained had no access to the customer database. It's certainly not something I'm going to lose sleep over, since in the case of people who are just finding out now (or who haven't found out yet), we're talking about grown adults with internet connections who are quite capable of following developments in the software which is apparently so important to them. 
 
 

James
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#14
ampfixer
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 22:15:16 (permalink)
Given that Cakewalk had no marketing staff and virtually no support staff at the time of the demise, I'm not surprised that there was no outreach to individuals. There were warning signs but they were made to seem trivial by Noel and others. The tech support collapse was a major indicator. Why did the marketers and support folks leave en masse? We should have seen the writing on the wall but they kept promising bigger and better things right up to the end.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#15
paulo
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 22:30:20 (permalink)
sharke
 It's certainly not something I'm going to lose sleep over, since in the case of people who are just finding out now (or who haven't found out yet), we're talking about grown adults with internet connections who are quite capable of following developments in the software which is apparently so important to them. 
 
 

 
Neither will I, but I also won't have a go at them for not knowing either. 
 
The OP states that the closure happened less than a month after they paid for a year's worth of support and updates, so I think it was reasonable for them to expect that would be the case.
 
#16
slartabartfast
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/04 22:38:46 (permalink)
Just Another Bloke

Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off?

 
No.


Of course this was a case of deception by way of concealment of a very relevant fact. The access to continuing updates was touted as a key feature of the sales model, and by design would continue throughout the paid membership period. Someone who was involved in this decision was aware of the impending shut down, and it did not suit their plan to manage the financial crisis to allow that information to see the light of day prior to the announcement. Many recent purchasers would be expected to have not bought the product knowing that it was to be discontinued soon. Apparently no provision was made to refund money spent while the company was selling it in bad faith. Whether the company in this case was Cakewalk or the parent Gibson Brands may be subject to debate, but if anyone thinks that every employee and manager woke up one day and suddenly realized this had to happen today, then you should be aware that the Brooklyn Bridge is on sale this week.
 
Whether a purchaser was ripped off may be a bit more complicated. Some certainly were effectively defrauded of their purchase cost. To someone who had just paid for one month of membership and now can use the latest available version for some uncertain future time, might well have gotten what others would consider a good deal. Someone who purchased a year of membership shortly before the shutdown clearly suffered a loss. The latter customers were promised and paid for something that they will never receive. The law tends to look charitably on failures to deliver on a promise in the face of financial ruin, but that is as much a reflection of the difficulty of getting blood out of a stone as it is a modification of the usual understanding of fairness in trade.
#17
pwalpwal
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/05 14:17:43 (permalink)
whatever happened to a good ol' "press release"? then it would've popped up on all the daw news sites/lists

just a sec

#18
57Gregy
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/05 14:20:38 (permalink)
slartabartfast
Just Another Bloke

Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off?

 
No.


Of course this was a case of deception by way of concealment of a very relevant fact. The access to continuing updates was touted as a key feature of the sales model, and by design would continue throughout the paid membership period. Someone who was involved in this decision was aware of the impending shut down, and it did not suit their plan to manage the financial crisis to allow that information to see the light of day prior to the announcement. Many recent purchasers would be expected to have not bought the product knowing that it was to be discontinued soon. Apparently no provision was made to refund money spent while the company was selling it in bad faith. Whether the company in this case was Cakewalk or the parent Gibson Brands may be subject to debate, but if anyone thinks that every employee and manager woke up one day and suddenly realized this had to happen today, then you should be aware that the Brooklyn Bridge is on sale this week.
 
Whether a purchaser was ripped off may be a bit more complicated. Some certainly were effectively defrauded of their purchase cost. To someone who had just paid for one month of membership and now can use the latest available version for some uncertain future time, might well have gotten what others would consider a good deal. Someone who purchased a year of membership shortly before the shutdown clearly suffered a loss. The latter customers were promised and paid for something that they will never receive. The law tends to look charitably on failures to deliver on a promise in the face of financial ruin, but that is as much a reflection of the difficulty of getting blood out of a stone as it is a modification of the usual understanding of fairness in trade.




Are you sure you're not a lawyer? 

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#19
bitman
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/05 14:21:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Just Another Bloke 2018/02/05 16:32:56
Heck no, I'm producing a new tune now as we speak. Awesome tool Sonar Platinum.
The plugins I bought over the holidays are super too.
#20
jyoung60
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/05 14:22:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Just Another Bloke 2018/02/05 16:32:53
Madness abounds everywhere!  STOP THE MADNESS!!!

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#21
eph221
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/05 21:01:41 (permalink)
I recommend therapy!

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#22
Just Another Bloke
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/05 22:50:06 (permalink)
Generally I don't like The Rapy. Some of its OK though. Not Vanilla Ice.
#23
SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Anyone else feel like you were decieved and ripped off? 2018/02/06 01:11:28 (permalink)
jamesg1213
I understand people not finding out till now. As far as I recall, Cakewalk is the only software forum I've ever joined. If any of the other software I use/have used in the past was discontinued, it'd be a while before I knew about it.  I have Studio One, but still haven't joined the Presonus forum.




 Such nonsense ...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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#24
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