Helpful ReplyAnyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea?

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tenfoot
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2017/03/06 18:09:23 (permalink)

Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea?

I am a big fan of the new rolling update model and have at least tried the early release candidate every month with the exception of 2017-02. I also believe Sonar to be at its peak, faster and more stable than any time in the 25+ years I have been using Cakewalk products . That said, with the official release running a bit late, I have realised how good it is to have a stable DAW without any uncertainty of a new update causing issues (I have run into a few show stoppers sInce the new model was released). I wonder whether the solution doesn't lie somewhere between the new and old models - maybe updates every two or three months? Obviously I can choose to do that now, but I can't help but think that Cakewalk must feel the pressure of a monthly release date that could perhaps be at the root of the occasional isues we have seen slipping through the cracks. Again, I understand you can always roll back, but I am not convinced that these  problems don't unduly damage Cakewalk's reputation to the wider DAW community.
 
I am not for one second denegrating all of the hard work the bakers do - I think they are brilliant. I just wonder whether the monthly major releases have created an unnecessary rod for their backs. I for one am more than happy to give them a bit more time!
 
Just wondered what others thought.
 
Peace:)

Bruce.
 
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#1
RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 18:16:41 (permalink)
I think if anything people should be less eager to jump on the newest bleeding-edge updates if they are worried at all about stability. I personally don't run a studio and it's not the worst thing ever to me if there are some hangups with an update. I also think the February update is indicative that Cakewalk is willing to hold back if they aren't feeling completely ready for a final release.
#2
chuckebaby
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 18:19:01 (permalink)
I guess its a double edged sword.
some that update and have issues would have to wait another 3-4 months for a fix.
I myself have been very pleased with the monthly updates. I cant honestly say I have yet to rollback because of a version that was less than satisfactory. Im know some have needed to because of keyboard shortcuts, synth rack personal preferences. exc. But I have been pleased with the monthly updates and hope they continue the way they are. this is only my opinion though. im sure others will agree, disagree.
 
EDIT: I respect your opinion though..and your idea of why. I also agree with you in many ways.
I just like the way the monthly updates remedy issues (that we used to wait months to be fixed).

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#3
ArcRex
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 18:34:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] 2017/03/06 18:44:54
I like the monthly update model. I think the scheduled approach 'keeps the train running'. As this month demonstrates, the early release offers a feedback loop for updates. If they were to change it for bigger updates farther apart, they would lose some of the clarity of the feedback loop, I would also worry that new items could more easily get delayed. The hard thing for me as a user is to not jump at updates when they don't affect me. I know download the updates as soon as possible, even if it is just a bug fix that I am not experiencing of a new tool that I know that I will never use i.e. the drum replacer (great tool for real drums or an audio track, but I only use midi drums, yet I still download release day one)
#4
tenfoot
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 18:34:07 (permalink)
Good point on the fixes Chuck. Yours could well be the opinion of most; I was really just thinking out loud after a couple of difficult updates followed by one awesomely good one. I guess not everyone's 'good ones' line up though!
 
RsMcguitar you are also right about jumping onto new releases - unfortunately for me they are like chocolate in the fridge. As a Sonar tragic resistance is futile:)

Bruce.
 
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#5
tenfoot
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 18:39:47 (permalink)
ArcRex
The hard thing for me as a user is to not jump at updates when they don't affect me.



I hear you ArcRex. I too suffer thus particular afliction. A little more self control may well be all I need:)

Bruce.
 
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#6
brundlefly
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 19:18:32 (permalink)
I think the advantages of getting quick fixes and having new features introduced in more 'bite-sized' chunks greatly outweighs any higher probability of having bugs introduced by the shorter development/test cycle, assuming that's even a reality. Frankly I'm not even convinced that the monthly releases are resulting in more - or more severe - issues for more users than the yearly release did. And it's a lot easier to identify which change caused which issue when there are fewer changes in each release, and adjust settings/workflows to avoid the problem or roll back if something's a real showstopper.

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#7
stevethompson
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 19:38:27 (permalink)
I like the option of updating - or not updating - at my convenience, in between projects for example.
So the current model is a-OK for me :) 
 
What I DO miss though (strange was just thinking this this morning) is the feeling of anticipation waiting for the postal delivery with the newest Sonar boxed upgrade with install media ...

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#8
stickman393
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 19:49:18 (permalink)
I understand why Cakewalk would aim for an update every month, given the subscription model, but I don't think they have to deliver on that.
 
I would much prefer it to be release when ready, rather than forcing it out the door, and I think this is why Cakewalk changed the naming scheme.
 
To me, 2017.02 just means the second release (update) offered in 2017, and in my mind is not tied to February specifically.
 
#9
tonydude
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 19:58:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ArcRex 2017/03/06 23:46:46
I'm very glad to see Cakewalk adopt the monthly release schedule yet also be sensible and pragmatic when issues are found. 
 
Speaking as software developer myself, I think regular releases are a very good thing. They help focus developers on what really matters (working software) and increase end user engagement.
 
There's a lot of developers working very hard at the moment (end of sprints can be stressful), so it is good to let them know it's appreciated. 
#10
dantarbill
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 20:15:36 (permalink)
tenfoot
ArcRex
The hard thing for me as a user is to not jump at updates when they don't affect me.



I hear you ArcRex. I too suffer thus particular afliction. A little more self control may well be all I need:)


One of the things that makes the current monthly update schedule "work" is the fact that there's a forum here, where you can gauge the experience of those of have a lack of self control.  (We salute you!)  I really appreciate the canaries that go into the coal mine first.  It allows me to update only when something cool comes along that's safe.
 
The fact that monthly updates are available doesn't mean that the updates are required.

Dan Tarbill
#11
bitman
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 20:28:44 (permalink)
I like it the way it is.
#12
Zargg
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 21:08:15 (permalink)
Hi. I like it the way it is now.
I haven't had any showstoppers since the new model was introduced, and eagerly await the next update every month. 
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#13
ampfixer
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 22:12:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/03/07 03:24:30
I think the more important question is if Cakewalk likes being on the monthly schedule. Has it made their lives easier, improved sales or reduced the need for tech support. I notice that they are no longer tipping their hand as to planned improvements, and there's no way to gauge how they are coming with fixing registered bugs as they aren't cross referenced in the updates.
 
If Cakewalk can live with the monthly updates then I'm fine. If they can't, I'm fine with that too.

Regards, John 
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#14
Anderton
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 22:12:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby clintmartin 2017/03/06 22:23:42
Speaking pragmatically, the developers are always coming up with new things anyway, and they could wait a year and there would still be bugs. They just wouldn't get fixed as fast 
 
The early access program was a great idea, I think this month's release proves it. I've done early access several times, rarely needed to roll back but did on occasion. Then I'd just wait until the final release. 
 
Really what it's all about is choice. You can stay with what you have, roll back, roll forward, don't update for a month or even a year, try the early access, don't try the early access...it's all up to you. In fact if you want updates every two months...update every two months 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#15
joakes
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 22:27:09 (permalink)
No.

I like the regular fixes.

Each to his own, but for me its great.

Cheers,
Jerry

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BobF
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 22:38:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2017/03/07 15:49:29
stickman393
I understand why Cakewalk would aim for an update every month, given the subscription model, but I don't think they have to deliver on that.
 




Subscription?  I thought it was a membership! 

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#17
Fabio Rubato
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 23:11:26 (permalink)
I'm for the current monthly update process as well and appreciate those who adopt early and trial it for feedback and possible further updates. 

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dantarbill
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/06 23:29:24 (permalink)
Fabio Rubato
I'm for the current monthly update process as well and appreciate those who adopt early and trial it for feedback and possible further updates. 



+2 for the canaries!
 

Dan Tarbill
#19
Leee
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 03:15:32 (permalink)
For me Cakewalk Sonar Platinum works perfectly (most of the time, with occasional exceptions on some updates) and it has everything I could ask for in DAW software.  If they never released another thing, I'd probably still be using it 20 years from now. Plus with all the third party plugins, I have MORE than what I need (5 times over).
So in my opinion, these monthly updates are just icing on the "cake".
(I've been waiting years to use that pun in a comment)

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#20
bitflipper
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 03:26:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/03/07 03:27:20
I very much like the frequent updates.
 
What I don't like, though, is scheduled frequent updates. That puts pressure on the developers to get an update out within a predetermined timeframe that does not take into account the realities or difficulties with whatever changes are being made.
 
Some fixes are quick, easy and easily testable. Others require sitting around a conference table for days, discussing basic architectural changes that have the potential to cause unexpected problems. My advice would be to get those quick fixes out quickly, but if there aren't any of those in a particular month, then take as long as needed.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#21
Anderton
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 03:31:03 (permalink)
bitflipper
I very much like the frequent updates.
 
What I don't like, though, is scheduled frequent updates. That puts pressure on the developers to get an update out within a predetermined timeframe that does not take into account the realities or difficulties with whatever changes are being made.
 
Some fixes are quick, easy and easily testable. Others require sitting around a conference table for days, discussing basic architectural changes that have the potential to cause unexpected problems. My advice would be to get those quick fixes out quickly, but if there aren't any of those in a particular month, then take as long as needed.




That's basically what's happening. Among other things, it's why you haven't seen ripple editing yet. The schedules for updates are targets, and can change at the last minute...2017.02 is a good example of this.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#22
Sycraft
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 03:44:22 (permalink)
bitflipper
I very much like the frequent updates.
 
What I don't like, though, is scheduled frequent updates. That puts pressure on the developers to get an update out within a predetermined timeframe that does not take into account the realities or difficulties with whatever changes are being made.

 
Ya I do feel like they should give themselves permission to skip a month or two when appropriate. I'd rather they don't spend time bringing an intermediate build to release quality and instead spend the time working on the next actual milestone they are hoping to hit.
 
I'm fine with how things have been going, Sonar has progressed nicely and releases seem to be very stable overall. I just think they shouldn't impose a self directed schedule of one a month. They aren't having problems with it or anything, I just don't think it is necessary and it may slow down hitting milestones a bit since intermediate builds have to be regularly prepped.
#23
Anderton
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 03:47:55 (permalink)
Sycraft
Ya I do feel like they should give themselves permission to skip a month or two when appropriate. 



If you look back over the update history, the ones where there are only bug fixes and no new features are essentially skipping a month. But if you have bug fixes in hand, there's no reason not to release them..so they get released anyway 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#24
tenfoot
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 03:49:52 (permalink)
Thanks for the input everyone - lots of great points and it seems everyone is thrilled with  the monthly updates. l wonder if people outside of our community would perceive that upon visiting this forum after each months update though:)
 
Ampfixer and bitflipper (EDIT and Sycraft) have best pinned it down the for me. Obviously this decision lies entirely with Cakewalk. If they're happy I guess all is well! To be clear I am not expressing any personal disatisfaction. Loving Sonar:)  Just wondering aloud how people outside of our comminity perceive this process and whether the bakers feel pressured by the timed releases.
 
 

Bruce.
 
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#25
BRuys
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 04:19:09 (permalink)
I really like the monthly updates, but I also don't mind if the bakers choose to delay the odd update by a month or two from time to time.  To me there is always the safety net of (1) Rolling back, (2) Waiting too see how an update is received on the forums, or (3) Only updating when I see a feature or fix the affects me personally.
 
Since the monthly updates started, I have actually taken all 3 approaches depending on how busy I've been.  At times, if my system has been stable and I've had a lot of projects on the go, I've gone months without an update.
 
Nobody holds a gun to my head forcing me to update.
#26
gmp
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 07:18:20 (permalink)
I'm ok with the monthly updates, but sometimes when I find an update that seems to be extra stable and bug free for my purposes I stay with it longer to test it and make sure it's as good as I think it is. Then when I do update and find the new update has a bug that bothers me, I can just revert my C drive back to an image file with the stable update.
 
So if you don't' care for the monthly updates, just skip ones when you feel like it. There's no obligation and isn't it true if we skip one we don't lose an features or anything if we update everything when we're ready? Am I correct?
 
I hope so, because I have skipped some. I had problems with Oct, Nov, and Dec updates and went from 9.2016 to 01.2017, which I’m still staying with for a while. Enjoying a pretty stable update after a long spell of not so good ones for my system.
 
The monthly updates do give us lots of flexibility to update or not to update and when we really are needing some bug fix, hopefully it won’t be a long wait.

Gerry Peters
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#27
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 09:43:29 (permalink)
gmp
So if you don't' care for the monthly updates, just skip ones when you feel like it. There's no obligation and isn't it true if we skip one we don't lose an features or anything if we update everything when we're ready? Am I correct?



Correct. The updates are cumulative so even though you skipped a few, by updating to 01.2107 you've got them anyway.
 
My only personal gripe, well it's not really a gripe, more an observation, is that I feel as though I'm slipping behind learning the new features due to a distinct lack of time in the studio.
Case in point. I had a clear day last Friday to do some work and started by attempting to update to 02.2017.
I had a bit of a problem with my internet which cost me a couple of hours trying to work out what the hell was going on and ended up doing very little. 
(Whatever the problem was resolved itself after re-booting my modem, but it certainly put a damper on my enthusiasm).
 

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#28
Piotr
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 10:06:40 (permalink)
Hi,
 
To be honest I believe that current model is great both for people who likes monthly updates and also 'surprisingly' for those about less rare updates.
 
Why? Because it is our choice. :) As BRuys wrote 'no guns' :)
 
If you don't want more frequent updates just you can follow 'what's new and what's fixed' notice and then decide if you are really interested in it or you prefer to wait. Anyway there is also rollback implemented so in case of troubles you can go to previous version. I used rollback few times and must say it worked and helped to fix what newer version made worse in my projects. Or even you could decide arbitrary just to update twice per year. It is up to you in fact not to Cakewalk ;)

As Craig mentioned in every model there will be bugs and fixes needed. And developers always will be very busy. It is not possible to make complicated program which is also connected to plenty of others (like plugins which are kind of external functions) to have bug-free. Not possible for human.
 
 
 

Regards,
Piotr
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#29
tenfoot
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Re: Anyone else think that less frequent updates might be a good idea? 2017/03/07 11:25:42 (permalink)
gmp
 I had problems with Oct, Nov, and Dec updates and went from 9.2016 to 01.2017, which I’m still staying with for a while. Enjoying a pretty stable update after a long spell of not so good ones for my system.




 
Exactly the path that I took too Gerry. Very happy with 2017-01.

Bruce.
 
Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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