Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet?

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pdarg
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2012/06/12 11:43:17 (permalink)

Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet?

Has anyone tried the new Digital Sound Factory HD piano sets (Steinway and Yamaha)?
 
I would LOVE to find a good piano sample set in 24 bit that runs in DimPro.
 
Opinions?
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    Blogman
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 12:13:32 (permalink)
    Haven't tried those but, quantum leap pianos are nice. Very dynamic.
    #2
    vlab
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 16:22:44 (permalink)
    I tried to actually find a demo (mp3) of those a few days ago ... but haven't been able to find anything on their site regarding those 2 new libraries, except on the store ... 

    And obviously, I can't imagine anyone buying those sounds without knowing how it sounds? 

    Am I the only one here ? 

    V



    #3
    BobbyT
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 16:25:25 (permalink)
    I would love to know how it sounds before i buy.
    #4
    californiamusic
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 16:29:51 (permalink)
    Yeah gotta hear an extensive demo for sure.  I've bought a few Piano libraries in the past after liking the Demos, and was still unfortunately disappointed.  

    The Ivory 2 is probably the best to date IMO.  But looking forward to hearing some of the Digital Sound Factory HD stuff  ; )

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    #5
    bladetragic
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 16:44:48 (permalink)
    Is Dimension even capable of getting as detailed as the competition such as Ivory, Kontakt, Halion when it comes to multiple velocities, scripting, mic'ing/room emulation, etc? 

    I'm just wondering how flexible and realistic a piano library can be in Dimension b/c it's definitely coming in at a pretty hefty price point.
    #6
    bitflipper
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 20:01:29 (permalink)
    bladetragic


    Is Dimension even capable of getting as detailed as the competition such as Ivory, Kontakt, Halion when it comes to multiple velocities, scripting, mic'ing/room emulation, etc? 

    I'm just wondering how flexible and realistic a piano library can be in Dimension b/c it's definitely coming in at a pretty hefty price point.

    I'm guessing the answer is yes, it should be entirely possible to build a piano for Dim Pro that's pretty near the equal of Ivory. At least, I can think of no limitation in Dim Pro or SFZ that would prevent it. 


    As you say, it had better be very good considering the price point. Alicia's Keys is $99, and there are lots of killer piano libraries for full Kontakt that are considerably less than that.




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    #7
    Guitarpima
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/12 21:00:27 (permalink)
    I am at a loss with this thread. I'm almost blind and I saw the demo wav file and played it. Sounds good to me.

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
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    #8
    pdarg
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/16 17:52:48 (permalink)
    I agree with Bitflipper that DimPro and SFZ present no technical limitation to creating a high quality piano sample library; I have tried many - and am still waiting for high quality samples, however. The Steinway sounds pretty good in the demo - is it worth the plunge?
    #9
    garrigus
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/16 20:21:51 (permalink)
    One limitation might be that Dim Pro loads all samples into memory, while other libraries can stream from disc. This means other libraries can have samples that are much larger, which usually means better quality.

    Of course, if you're running 64-bit and have a lot of RAM, then it's not as much of a limitation, although it will eat up a lot of RAM depending on the size of the samples.

    Scott

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    cecelius2
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/16 21:50:26 (permalink)
    BobbyT

    I would love to know how it sounds before i buy. 
    Me too.  I posted in the Cakewalk Instruments sub-forum when they first sent the email out with the announcement, and got only 1 reply:  http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2589427.  I would need to hear more examples of how this Dim Pro Steinway sounds, and also hear from some of you that it does actually compare favorably with Ivory II or SampleTekk's White Sisters, before I spend the $$.  I was really just waiting on SampleTekk to see if they are going to have their Summer sale like they did last Summer, but then the email from Cakewalk about this DimPro DSF HD Steinway came.  Anyone out there who can give a comparison of the new DSF HD Steinway to either Ivory II or SampleTekk, please chime in.  Inquiring minds want to know if this Dimension Pro Steinway is a competitor or not.




    #11
    pdarg
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/18 11:26:02 (permalink)
    Exactly.
    #12
    konradh
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/18 11:49:42 (permalink)
    I am a huge fan of Ivory II Grands, but it now has some competition.  Some people like the EastWest product.  For sound, stability, and system load, I am still in the Ivory II camp.  When I play the Ivory II Steinway, I can smell the wood.  That is how good and evocative it is.
    #13
    thepianist65
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/19 11:49:10 (permalink)
    I went ahead and bought the Steinway HD pack, and I've been using it for a week or so. My reaction is mixed. I have used the True Pianos Amber module so long that my first reaction to the Dim Pro Steinway was very negative, in that the samples sounded thin and clunky to me. Now I used to sell Steinway pianos, so I know what they are supposed to sound like. After using them a bit, adjusting the tracks with ProChannel, reverb, etc., I am feeling like there's some decent samples there, but I've heard better. Keep in mind they are sampling the Steinway L, which is a nice piano, but not in the class of the D, which has a much larger soundboard. Having tried Ivory, Pianoteq, etc. as demos, I think those programs are superior. The other issue is the sample loading times are very long on my (underpowered) system, since they load into memory, so it slows down my ability to try the different variations. My favorite patch is the EQ patch, the 1st and 3rd are kind of clunky to me, and some of the samples sound awful (although they are purposely designed to add chorus, reverb, etc.
    I had a store credit when I purchased, so I only paid $80, but I still think it's a little bit overpriced for what you get.
    That's my $.02 worth. I'm not sure I would have bought it if I had heard or tried it out beforehand. I'm also wondering if there is any difference in sound quality on a more powerful DAW computer, as mine is on it's last legs and will be replaced soon. 

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    #14
    konradh
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/19 11:59:35 (permalink)
    One consideration is how prominent piano is in your music and what style you play.  If you play honky-tonk (and I do not mean that in a bad way at all) or straight rock, the True Pianos can sound kind of cool.  I do very organic music with piano out front often, so Ivory is a worthwhile investment for me.

    I believe Pianoteq is modeled and not sampled.  If I remember that correctly, that means possibly less authenticity but much more sound design control.   I demo'ed their entry level product one time, and thgouht it was pretty cool for $99--but Steinway D is the gold standard: it is in 90% of the concert halls in the world and the choice of most orchestras, soloists, Van Cliburn competitors, etc.
    #15
    bitflipper
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/19 13:49:18 (permalink)
    thepianist53


    I went ahead and bought the Steinway HD pack, and I've been using it for a week or so. My reaction is mixed. I have used the True Pianos Amber module so long that my first reaction to the Dim Pro Steinway was very negative, in that the samples sounded thin and clunky to me. Now I used to sell Steinway pianos, so I know what they are supposed to sound like. After using them a bit, adjusting the tracks with ProChannel, reverb, etc., I am feeling like there's some decent samples there, but I've heard better. Keep in mind they are sampling the Steinway L, which is a nice piano, but not in the class of the D, which has a much larger soundboard. Having tried Ivory, Pianoteq, etc. as demos, I think those programs are superior. The other issue is the sample loading times are very long on my (underpowered) system, since they load into memory, so it slows down my ability to try the different variations. My favorite patch is the EQ patch, the 1st and 3rd are kind of clunky to me, and some of the samples sound awful (although they are purposely designed to add chorus, reverb, etc.
    I had a store credit when I purchased, so I only paid $80, but I still think it's a little bit overpriced for what you get.
    That's my $.02 worth. I'm not sure I would have bought it if I had heard or tried it out beforehand. I'm also wondering if there is any difference in sound quality on a more powerful DAW computer, as mine is on it's last legs and will be replaced soon. 

    Well, there you have it. I'm inclined to give weight to the opinion of someone with the screen name of "the pianist"! If anything, the above review is a bit too polite - I mean, if the product is disappointing alongside True Pianos Amber, it must be really weak.

    I wonder how it compares to Garritan's Steinway. It's officially endorsed by Steinway and is in the same price range. Personally, my search ended with Sampletekk's The Old Lady, which cost all of 25 bucks on sale.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #16
    cliffr
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/19 22:03:43 (permalink)
    konradh


    I am a huge fan of Ivory II Grands, but it now has some competition.  Some people like the EastWest product.  For sound, stability, and system load, I am still in the Ivory II camp.  When I play the Ivory II Steinway, I can smell the wood.  That is how good and evocative it is.
    I hear ya loud and clear on this front.
     
    I have the EW Platinum, and I do like it ... but it still falls short in some ways for me.
    Though I have to say - I really need to get my hands on a truly high end MIDI keyboard to make the most out of any decent piano VST.
     
    Your other comment about prominence and style are right on the money too.
     
    I wouldn't be inclined in any way to get these new HD pianos for DimPro, and although I've used DimPro for piano sound before, it has to be something that's either burried deep in the mix, or like yousay, maybe a honky tonk, or hard hitting rock style where a somewhat raw sound suits and dynamics aren't an issue.
     
     
    I've seen you comment about Ivory II before, and it seems you might have me hooked too.
    Just been over at the Synthology site checking them out, and added them to my shopping list.
     
    My biggest and most pressing problem right now is searching out a really great keyboard though.
    I started a thread (maybe about a week or so ago) asking if anyone has or is using this beasty with X1 ...
    http://www.infiniteresponse.com/ VAX77 Midi keyboard, but no responses except my own.
     
    The keyboard itself is very unique, using magnetic hall effect for sensing velocity/accelleration etc, and can trigger without even fully depressing keys. I imagine that teamed up with a really great samples piano would be very cool !.
     
     
    Cheers - Cliff

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    #17
    djwayne
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/19 22:28:29 (permalink)
    Well I have Ivory II, and it does indeed sound great. One thing Ivory II  has the others don't is synth pads that can play along with your piano playing, adding a whole new texture to your music. It really is pretty sweet. There's also a very nice selection of presets that can add a lot of difference to the piano's sound.

    I just did a piano shootout with a midi file I recorded to hear the difference between the three piano's in Ivory II, True Piano's Amber, and The Steinway B in East West's Symphonic Orchestra program, and you know they all sounded very good. There's was differences is tone and volume, but on my cheapo monitors they all sounded very usable.
    That Steinway B is still one of my favorites..

    I listened to Cakewalk's new offerings and they sounded very good to me too.

    So I think it comes down to how much do you want to spend...if you have Producer, you already have True Piano's Amber. For $100 bucks you can get one of the new Cakewalk models, If you don't mind spending $319 you can get Ivory II. Synthogy also offers a Fazoli piano sample set for $179. So it really boils down to your preferrences and what kind of budget you have.

    Last week I bought a larger SSD so that I could have the full three Ivory II piano's available to me, I'm glad I did that, because now the Borsendofer is becoming one of my favorites.
    #18
    cliffr
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/20 00:06:17 (permalink)
    djwayne

    Last week I bought a larger SSD so that I could have the full three Ivory II piano's available to me, I'm glad I did that, because now the Borsendofer is becoming one of my favorites.
    I'm doing some classical works at the moment using the EW Bosendorfer, it would be really interesting to compare against the Ivory one. Ivory supports half pedaling, but I'm still trying to suss out if Ivory II has true staccato samples. I find the true staccato samples in EW invaluable for some of the classical stuff I've been doing of late.
     
    So does anyone know if there are "True Staccato" samples with Ivory II ?.
     
    Can't see anything on the synthogy site about staccato at all. 

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    konradh
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/20 13:26:15 (permalink)
    I have a Kawaii digital piano in my living room just for general purposes.  (It sounds as good as most pianos and better than some, but nowhere close to Ivory II.)  I have thought about hauling it upstairs to the studio as an 88-key three-pedal controller for Ivory because the action is really nice, but I like having a piano in the living area.

    If you come up with a recommendation for the ultimate controller that doesn't cost a fortune or weigh a ton, let us know.  Lots of choices out there but it is hard to know how they feel when shopping on the Internet.
     
    Regarding true staccato, are you asking if staccato notes were recorded sampled separately as opposed to just using normal samples that respond to on/off commands?  I don't know, but I have not noticed any deficiencies so far in the sound or response.  Your ears may be more sensitive.  (This does make a huge difference in string samples.)
     
    The Bosendorfer sample set is excellent, although I am generally a Steinway guy.
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    cecelius2
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/20 17:20:01 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    thepianist53


    I went ahead and bought the Steinway HD pack, and I've been using it for a week or so. My reaction is mixed. I have used the True Pianos Amber module so long that my first reaction to the Dim Pro Steinway was very negative, in that the samples sounded thin and clunky to me. Now I used to sell Steinway pianos, so I know what they are supposed to sound like. After using them a bit, adjusting the tracks with ProChannel, reverb, etc., I am feeling like there's some decent samples there, but I've heard better. Keep in mind they are sampling the Steinway L, which is a nice piano, but not in the class of the D, which has a much larger soundboard. Having tried Ivory, Pianoteq, etc. as demos, I think those programs are superior. The other issue is the sample loading times are very long on my (underpowered) system, since they load into memory, so it slows down my ability to try the different variations. My favorite patch is the EQ patch, the 1st and 3rd are kind of clunky to me, and some of the samples sound awful (although they are purposely designed to add chorus, reverb, etc.
    I had a store credit when I purchased, so I only paid $80, but I still think it's a little bit overpriced for what you get.
    That's my $.02 worth. I'm not sure I would have bought it if I had heard or tried it out beforehand. I'm also wondering if there is any difference in sound quality on a more powerful DAW computer, as mine is on it's last legs and will be replaced soon. 

    Well, there you have it. I'm inclined to give weight to the opinion of someone with the screen name of "the pianist"! If anything, the above review is a bit too polite - I mean, if the product is disappointing alongside True Pianos Amber, it must be really weak.

    I wonder how it compares to Garritan's Steinway. It's officially endorsed by Steinway and is in the same price range. Personally, my search ended with Sampletekk's The Old Lady, which cost all of 25 bucks on sale.
    Agree with Bitflipper on this review.  If it doesn't compare well to True Pianos Amber then this is saying a great deal--not promising at all.  I also like the Old Lady and really am waiting on a hopeful Summer sale by Sampletekk to get The White Sisters combo pack.  BTW I went to Garritan's site last week trying to find their Steinway and I could no longer find it.





    #21
    pdarg
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/20 17:55:04 (permalink)
    I too, have the Old Lady piano in WAV. I created an SFZ file for - and now it plays in DimPro quite well. I actually like it better than the other DimPro pianos, but there are some bad samples in that pack, and I still need to expand the SFZ for pedal variations, etc.
    #22
    cliffr
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/20 20:53:56 (permalink)
    konradh


    I have a Kawaii digital piano in my living room just for general purposes.  (It sounds as good as most pianos and better than some, but nowhere close to Ivory II.)  I have thought about hauling it upstairs to the studio as an 88-key three-pedal controller for Ivory because the action is really nice, but I like having a piano in the living area.
    Kawaii do make some really nice stuff allright. And the action just makes it or breaks it no matter how good something sounds. I'm feeling just slightly envious at the minute.
    If you come up with a recommendation for the ultimate controller that doesn't cost a fortune or weigh a ton, let us know.  Lots of choices out there but it is hard to know how they feel when shopping on the Internet.
     
    Yep, it's a bit of pain in the proverbial in that respect. And here in NZ the choices seem pretty limited. The retail music stores just don't carry the range of stuff. One of the disadvantages of living in a little country !.
     
    I recently spent a couple of days checking out the big stores here, which would be little in comparison to what's overseas. I just couldn't find anything that filled all my requirements.
     
    Shopping on the internet is actually worse ... lots of choice, but no way to tell about the feel and action.
    Regarding true staccato, are you asking if staccato notes were recorded sampled separately as opposed to just using normal samples that respond to on/off commands?  I don't know, but I have not noticed any deficiencies so far in the sound or response.  Your ears may be more sensitive.  (This does make a huge difference in string samples.)
     
    The Bosendorfer sample set is excellent, although I am generally a Steinway guy.
    EW Pianos has some separate "True Staccato" samples, you can switch between the normal and staccato with the Mod wheel.  I've found them really cool for solo classical work. They really do "Stand out" as more realistic than just playing staccato on the KB with the normal patches.

    Ahh, I say you can never have too many pianos ... so I'll be adding that Ivory II when the old budget allows :-)
     
    As far as the "Ultimate Controller", I may have to take a nice travelling holiday to find what I'm looking for. You just can't guess at stuff like that !.
     
     
    Cheers - Cliff

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    #23
    Kreative
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/20 21:39:24 (permalink)
    I'm enjoying my pianos from Morphestra. They have a big sound, and a cinematic quality that is larger than life and very emotive. Not just your ordinary piano sound, but more creative.

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    #24
    wynnsong
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/21 02:13:10 (permalink)
    This is a great piano(lots of color though):
    http://cinesamples.com/products/piano-in-blue/

    And This

    http://www.soundiron.com/instruments/pianos/emotional-piano/

    Dim Pro doesn't quite do it for me, Kontakt 5 works great and any sample library that uses the engine does too.

    my 2 cents


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    #25
    lawajava
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/23 02:57:47 (permalink)
    I'm in accord with BitFlipper regarding the Garritan Steinway. At least the one I have, which is included with the full version of GPO, seems to be the most awesome piano I have presently.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #26
    timswartz
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/25 00:48:33 (permalink)
    Hi All,
     
    I am a sound designer and I search for high quality instruments located in the right environment that can be recorded for playback in modern software synthesizers. Simple on the surface, but explain that at your wife’s executive party!
     
    We were looking for a few pianos that were natural sounding and would fit in to most recording mixes. I live in the San Francisco Bay area and there are quite a few choice pianos available, but we got lucky and found this amazing Steinway in a Berkley studio and a perfect Yamaha in San Mateo. As a sound designer, you can record anything you can point your microphone at, but finding instruments that recording engineers covet, completes the journey. These pianos have been used on countless recordings.
     
    As you all know, pianos are personal. A lot of us have worked in piano stores between gigs, and every piano sounds different. Does not matter if there are 3 C7’s sitting next to each other, each one has its own feel and sound.
     
    Anyway, hope you guys give these pianos a chance. They are not processed, but authentic recordings of these expressive beauties.
     
    Best Regard,
     
    Tim
    www.DigitalSoundFactory.com
    #27
    Blogman
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/30 19:33:26 (permalink)
    I just wrote a translator in Bome's midi translator for QUANTUM LEAP PIANOS that use the CC#64 (0-127) sustain info and passes it through (for sustain sample switching) as well as converts it to CC#20 which I then use to control the Release knob (via ACT in sonar). This makes half pedaling possible and even catching vibrating strings that weren't sustained to start with. Very Cool!
    post edited by Blogman - 2012/07/01 13:14:07
    #28
    pdarg
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/30 22:14:03 (permalink)
    Hi TimSwartz - thanks for the direct input. I am leaning towards trying the 24-bit Steinway for DimPro - I really like the DimPro engine, and it works very well with Sonar.
     
    It will be some time before I can buy/download and test it - but when I do, I will return here and make some comments.
     
    I guess one question would be: can the piano samples do both "soft" ballad type of piano sounds as well as "harder" notes?
    post edited by pdarg - 2012/06/30 22:20:29
    #29
    pdarg
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    Re:Anyone try the new HD piano samples yet? 2012/06/30 22:21:46 (permalink)
    The Ivory software looks (and sounds) interesting as well - but it requires A LOT of disk space; perhaps too much for my tastes.
    #30
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