MarvioBotticelli
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Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
With any success? :)
Here is my problem, I cannot get this thing to do no latency monitoring, and when using monitoring through Sonar, the latency is so bad it's completely unusable...
I have a beast of a machine, I7 Extreme 10 cores, 64gig RAM, Running Win10 X64
Here is the kicker, no matter what I choose in the Beringher's ASIO panel I get the same latency, I've gone down to 64 samples, and nothing!
I have no problems at all with audio drop outs and such, but for some reason, when I have more than 3 tracks, it doesn't even matter if I'm using no plug ins at all, when I monitor from the DAW, BAM, can't record because the latency is almost a second.
So here is my question..
Does anyone know how to do o latency monitoring from this thing, or know how to fix the latency issue when monitoring from Sonar?
Heck, I had a little maudio fast track thing, running on a Core 2 duo, and I remember having 32 tracks going with tons of plug ins and still be able to maintain latency good enough (monitoring from sonar), to record...
I know this is probably a question for the Beringher forums, and I'm posting there too, but just thought to ask you guys
Thanks a ton
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BlixYZ
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/27 20:58:58
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Generally, I've used hardware monitoring which is always zero. Most interfaces allow it. The only drawback is that you can't monitor the fx on the armed track, but I usually use hardware reverb through an aux in the interface's software mixer. The signal is recorded dry. I'm sure your interface can do this. I'm not a fan of even low latency monitoring. I like direct.
James W BlixYZ Recording Studio BlixYZ Records Audient ASP800 thru Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Mackie Control Universal + C4 Yamaha HS50's plus Matching Sub, Tannoy 501a Blue Baby Bottle, AT 4050, Neumann TLM 103, etc. UA 610, Focusrite/ART/Neve 2CH. Windows 10
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Cactus Music
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/27 21:14:02
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Well they are designed as a mixer first and the audio interface is secondary.. Behringer is not a company known to write good audio drivers... But that said you must be able to listen to your input using the aux send system to set up a mix. The playback from the DAW would be also mixed in to this buss. They are praised buy people who use in ear monitors so there must be a way .. So this is going to be something in your Behringer user manual,,, not Sonar.
Do they have a user forum?
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tenfoot
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/27 21:33:05
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Hi Marvio. I have not used the xair, but I do use the X32 for live work and I believe that the software is very similar . Whilst the Asio driver isnt the best I've ever encountered, you certainly should be able to get decent latencies - so fear not, we just need to find the gremlin in your setup! Are you setting the Asio buffers through Sonar by going to PREFERENCES>AUDIO>DRIVER SETTINGS and clicking on the ASIO button so that it opens X-airs control panel?
With regards to hardware monitoring, this is done via the X-air edit software. First disable input echo on the channel you are recording in Sonar, then open the X-air edit mixer, make sure the channel you are recording on is assigned to whichever output your monitors are connected to, then raise the channel fader. That's it!
FWIW if you are using windows 10, give the WASAPI driver a try (chosen under preferences>Audio>playback and recording, then set buffers under preferences>Audio>driver settings. I have found it better than the ASIO driver for some things, particularly playlist playback. If you are on Win 7, stick with the ASIO driver as wasapi was pretty flakey back then!
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/28 07:24:48
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I use the XAir 18. The latency I get from monitoring from Sonar by using input echo is not useable. I typically monitor what I am recording in using the XAir itself (Like a live mixer). There is no latency that way. It may not be the same signal, but you CAN process the signal greatly in the XAir. It has about 30 FXs built in. To monitor the rest of the tracks while recording, I set the XAir inputs of tracks 17 & 18 (Which are already stereo pairs) to the hardware outputs from SONAR (USB). That way I can mix the existing recorded stuff on SONAR, that goes to tracks 17 & 18 on XAir. Then I use XAir's mixer program on my PC (Same PC as SONAR is running on in this case) to control the gain on the incoming signal as well as the mix between tracks 17 & 18 and whatever you are recording. My PC is connected via ethernet from an external wireless router. You can do several things to monitor. The way I do it is simply to set the Monitor INPUT signal to L/R Pre Fader. Then I can control my main monitor speaker volume using L/R MAIN fader. For tracking, it is all the way down. Then I can control my monitor signal to headphones using the monitor volume knob on the XAir. Note that this is the only volume knob physically on the XR-18. I send the Headphone signal from the XAir to a Rane HC-6 headphone amp to give me 6 headphone channels. Hope this helps in a small way. Oh Also the XAIR forum is pretty good too. Not nearly as active as this one though http://forum.music-group.com/forumdisplay.php?113-X-AIR-General-Discussion
 SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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MarvioBotticelli
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/28 09:26:10
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First things first, thanks everybody for replying! You guys are great! :)
patm300e, tenfoot
Yeah, I know, I really don't want to use the Sonar Echo thing, though I have in the past.
Problem is that I need a step by step on how to do the direct monitoring with the Xair, the manual assumes you know a lot of stuff and I get all confused! :)
Would it be asking too much from you guys to give me bullet points on how to configure the board to do direct monitoring?
Thanks!
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mcdoma2000
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/28 12:23:17
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I would appreciate the step-by-step, too.
i7-920 24GB Ram Windows 10 x64 SONAR Platinum x64 Focusrite 18i20
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tenfoot
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/28 12:56:12
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Hey Marvio. I don't have an x-air - only X32's, so patm is infinitely more qualified to give you detailed instructions on that.
Can I ask you guys, what round trip latency is Sonar reporting when you have your Asio buffers set to 256 or 512 (44100 sampling rate) This setting can be found under preferences>Audio>driver settings>asio.
The x32 asio control panel has 2 sections, the buffer size and a dropodown where you can choose safe or low latency. Is the X-air the same?
I had a cheapie 4 channel behringer interface that could achieve reasonable latencies. It seems crazy that the X-air can't.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/28 15:48:55
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/10/29 01:10:23
I will look into the XR-18 ASIO driver tonight...I believe it does have the same 2 sections as the X32. I am looking into where on the Behringer forum the discussion that I had with one of the forum regulars about the monitor setup. I essentially use the default Mixer settings like it just came out of the box, but switch Channel 17 & 18 input To USB, Then switch Monitor to LR PFL. I have also found this: If you do studio recordings with a DAW, you should run the playback via the stereo out of the DAW routed to channel 17/18. So you can use the XR18 as monitor mixer. You can un-assign 17/18 from LR, or just keep its fader down at -inf. Either way it's still solo-able. Mixing is done in the DAW. Further in the XAir App, Select the channel(s) you are recording into, select the Input A/D (Not USB!). Select the Channel Tab and set the Mic Gain (& Phantom Power if necessary). This is the Gain Staging!. Then you will be sending your current Mix from DAW into Channels 17 & 18. Use 17 &18 fader to control Mix Volume and use each individual channel you are recording's volume fader (on XAIR App) to control the incoming recording volume. BTW, The REAL Manual is buried here: https://media.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0AWZ/X-AIR-Series_M_EN.pdf Not sure WHY there isn't a link on the web page for the XR-18, but I found this link buried in the Behringer forums. In the mean time if you haven't seen this already: You can find a Youtube playlist with over 40 tutorial videos here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfJvKuL08vHy4lk3TxQQddYrWyqzA9b4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VTvGik5UYY Subscribe to his channel. Lots of great videos. I could not find the exact forum link for the fix I had. A guy named Dave MeadowCraft answered my question and I copied the response.QUESTIONS:The Headphones and Main LR seem to be linked together I can't turn the headphones up without turning on Main LR. Any suggestions? How do you do the routing with Monitors/Headphones?
I have used an AUX bus and that works, but is not quite what I am after. I was hoping that the Headphone volume would work off the volume knob on the front and the Main LR would control monitor volume. With my routing, this is NOT the case.
DAVE'S ANSWER:
If you set the source of the Phones in the In/Out screen to Monitor and also set the Monitor Source in the Setup screen to be LR PFL then your phones should work independently of the LR fader and you will still get your Solos (PFL or AFL independent settings in Setup screen). Found here:http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?12228-Headphone-out-and-some-other-questions&highlight=XR18+Monitor Also this may help: Block diagram should identify the tap points [link=http://behringerwiki.music-group.com...Block_Diagrams]http://behringerwiki.musi...p.com...Block_Diagrams[/link] And the REAL Manual is buried here: Please let me know if I can help further...I could always attach my SCN file in the Behringer forum and you could get it from there.
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/28 15:52:03
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I will look into doing a step-by-step document or video about how I set this up. Patience is needed for the XR18, the documentation is there but takes a while to digest and you can route any signal anywhere so it is easy to get confused.
Once you get something working SAVE IT! As either a Snapshot (On the XR-18) or a Scene (On the computer that runs XAir software).
You can restore a scene or snapshot simply and easily.
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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tenfoot
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/10/29 01:12:35
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You are a gentleman and a scholar Pat!
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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MarvioBotticelli
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/05 12:38:50
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OH my God, I feel so bad, but work has been killer these past weeks!
Patm sir, you are the man! I'm going to try your suggestions for sure, did not know I could simply assign the inputs to A/D and not USB, duh! :) That right there may do it for me..
What is the advantage of having Sonar outputting to Channels 17/18? Not quite sure?
To answer tenfoot's question..
I'm not 100% sure but it was really low, something on the 4.5 Msec range? But that's what it reports, not what it is actually doing! :) The latency on the echo, if I had to guess, is more like 20-30msec? Completely unusable...
Thanks everybody you guys are great!
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/07 07:39:52
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Yeah, I been busy too...No worries as I have not been able to even power on my DAW for about a week. Getting ready for colder weather in Eastern US.
I will try to get you the info this week as I plan on using it this week...Got some mixing to do.
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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MarvioBotticelli
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/07 18:30:52
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patm300e
Yeah, I been busy too...No worries as I have not been able to even power on my DAW for about a week. Getting ready for colder weather in Eastern US.
I will try to get you the info this week as I plan on using it this week...Got some mixing to do.
A fellow North Easter? I'm around the greater Boston area myself! :) I'm trying your suggestions tonight, wish me luck!
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/08 06:56:28
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Down in Maryland here...Spent some time in Massachusetts (Southwick) in the late 70s. Yes, I am old sigh.
I wasn't feeling well last night so I didn't get to look at my set up. I will try to document the settings tonight. Note that I use the PC version of the XR-18 for setup and an Android tablet for control. I will document setup using PC.
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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MarvioBotticelli
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/15 21:37:22
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Thanks again Patm!
I use the PC version of the software too, bought a super cheap touch enabled all in on computer just for it, it was cheaper than a Tablet the same size, crazy, right?
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MarvioBotticelli
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/15 21:54:28
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So excited!!
Stumble on a way to do it! I started with the tip on one of your posts, set the monitor to channels 17/18, then changed the phones tomonitor in the in/out, sent the master from Sonar to channels 17/18. You would think at this point I would have it, right? Noooooo...
Well, I was getting a little ticked, so I just started trying stuff, changed the phones to Main L/R, in the in/out menu, and bam! I have both Sonar and the stuff going into the board. Have no idea how this set up works, doesn;t make sense to me, but hey, it does!
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/16 07:54:52
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Yes, the phones should be Main L/R. But the signal should tap off BEFORE the Main L/R fader. It is called PFL and is found under Setup. Using 17/18 as the return channels you can then use the XAir App to "Mix" the signal for the monitors between what you are recording (Channels 1-16) and the Mix you already have recorded (Channels 17 and 18 in stereo). Anything you need to adjust in the already recorded stuff you adjust in Cakewalk and anything coming in to be recorded you adjust in the XAir App (until it is recorded and then you use Cakewalk...It gets confusing!).
I use Punch recording to fix flubs (old school I know but it just works for me.) The stuff already there gets signal from 17/18 and the newly punched in stuff coming in is the channel(s) you are recording in the XAir App.
Hope this in some small way helps. That is how I set it up anyway. With the routing on this thing it is insane!
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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MarvioBotticelli
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/16 08:46:21
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Dude you were an Immense help, and I hope this thread helps somebody else in the future. Yeah, the sheer number of ways you can route the signal makes it a little more complicated than it has to be for a recording interface, but then again it was made to be a mixing desk primarily, so we can't complain :) I got it because it was the most compact for an 18 input interface, and it had the nicest pre-amps for the money, anything even approaching what the Xair can do is in the thousands of dollars...
All is well in the end :)
PS> Yeah, I did the PFL thing, it was in the instructions you posted, after I got it working I had no problem in understanding the input/return levels and such, so a t least to me it wasn't that hard to understand :)
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patm300e
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Re: Anyone using the Beringher Xair18?
2016/11/16 08:52:06
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Great! Glad to help. The Behringer XAir forum is good too although not as active as Sonar's.
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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