Apocrypha - Update

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RSMCGUITAR
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2016/12/29 03:44:02 (permalink)

Apocrypha - Update

Hey, I'm hoping someone with more skills than me will help me with advice on this mix.
This is basically a mix I've been working on. I've yet to give it the Ozone treatment. Just hoping for some feedback.
thanks guys!

https://soundcloud.com/scott-mcgregor-3/apocrypha/s-SPho4 

EDIT: I've worked on the drums some as most have recommend. Here is the new version:

https://soundcloud.com/scott-mcgregor-3/apocrypha-new-drums/s-tMJAI 
post edited by RSMCGUITAR - 2017/01/04 23:34:30
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    Voda La Void
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    Re: Apocrypha 2016/12/29 08:24:06 (permalink)
    I hear what you mean.  I really think the bass and guitar fit nicely, but the drums are an issue, just so..lifeless, mixed a tad low, no shell tone, sounds way far back.  Honestly, something sounds wrong with the EQ'ing on them or something because when the song first started I was having a hard time trying to figure out what was bass drum, snare, toms, they all sound the same like it's a set of blocks.  Did you use a lot of compression?  There doesn't seem to be any punch to them.
     
    Honestly, just one musician to another and I'm no expert like you are looking for...the "mix" sounds fine, just the percussion track needs work.  It seems to me like that's the dynamic that is keeping the life of the song from coming out, making it seem like a levels issue. 

    If it were me...I would go back to the original track, light compression, just enough to get some punch out of that kick and snare, maybe some tom depth.  Barely any reverb.  Determine if your bass or kick drum is going to occupy the 75 hz notch while the other uses the 120 Hz notch, EQ accordingly, lightly.  Then I would play with the midrange EQ settings to find the tone on those toms and that snare.  Got to overcome that tappy sound.  
     
    That's just my two cents.  Listen to other guys first, they are a lot more knowledgeable about this sort of thing. I'm still working on a good drum sound too, so...
     
    Your song is cool by the way.  I like progressive music and yours has that vibe.  Man if you can get that drum track going this would sound so cool turned way up.  You have some kick ass licks going on. 

    Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
    #2
    philz
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    Re: Apocrypha 2016/12/29 10:30:17 (permalink)
    I think the bigger issue with this piece has to do with structure.  IMO The intro is too long without really going anywhere special.  I would recommend not waiting so long to jump in with the tasty lead licks.
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    RSMCGUITAR
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/01 00:16:33 (permalink)
    I really appreciate the feedback guys, thanks! I definitely see what you're saying with the drums and I think I'll go back over them. That's the part I'm struggling with the most. I think I'm also falling into the trap of trying out too many new things and once and it kinda just confuses the whole project.

    Thanks again.
    #4
    RSMCGUITAR
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/01 01:00:00 (permalink)
    Also...... I'm 90% sure that I bounced the song with the KICK panned 48% to the left by mistake! 
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    jamesg1213
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/01 04:26:03 (permalink)
    Excellent chord sequence in that intro, like how it twists and turns. It does go on a tad long before the lead guitar hits though. Agree about the drums, they really need to be big, clear and driving this track along. You have all the pieces ready though, could be a killer track with a bit more..oomph

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    #6
    emeraldsoul
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/01 11:37:25 (permalink)
    Kudos on the song and the chops. Nice ideas! It's prog so a lengthy intro is not a dealbreaker.
     
    You have a synth doing a background pad in the beginning, but it doesn't always chord up with what the other instruments are doing. I'd be tempted to nuke the synth as a start, it just kind of adds mud - until you get the rest of the mix figured out - then you know where to fill.
     
    Have you eq'd the bass? Are you rolling off everything below say 200hz? You might add some of that back in?
    Maybe try a limiter on the bass guitar.
     
    I think you'll figure the drums out - you might send the kick and toms to a separate bus, and bring out a nice compressor just for them.
     
    have fun, I'd like to hear what you do with this!
     
    cheers,
    -Tom
     

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    biodiode
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/01 17:10:24 (permalink)
    I like the guitar playing, very prog :) so the long intro doesn't particularly bother me, I've heard much longer in this genre.
     
    Like the others have said the drums sound a tad anaemic and I'm struggling to hear which drums are which, there just doesn't seem to be any definition. Also this may be me, as it's getting kinda late over here, but the whole thing sounds quiet compared to other tracks I have been listening to on soundcloud.

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    daryl1968
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/01 17:40:42 (permalink)
    Some really nice ideas on this. Drums need some work - they get lost in the mix
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    RSMCGUITAR
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/04 23:35:53 (permalink)
    Thanks guys.

    I've worked on the drums some and I think I've got them sounding at least a little better. I posted another link at the top of the thread to the track with the new drums.
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    stevec
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/12 17:31:49 (permalink)
    I just listened to the latest version, and I think what Voda La Void mentioned is what I hear as well - the drums seem to be mostly "sticks on heads" and have little meat or tone, almost as though it's one drum being used. For example, in the change just after 2:00 I can tell that it's kick and snare, but the I hear the kick's beater more than the drum itself, if that makes sense.    What are you using for drums?
     
    The tune itself is pretty cool though, I like it.  I'm a long time prog fan so this type of thing works for me.  I'd like to hear vocals or maybe a lead melody line over the more basic chord change sections, but otherwise the structure itself is nice. 
     

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    RSMCGUITAR
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/12 22:49:43 (permalink)
    Thanks for the comments Steve. I definitely see what you're saying. I'm really struggling with the drums. I'm using AD2. I'm mixing on headphones with Sonarworks which is unfortunately the best I can do right now.
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    stevec
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/12 23:47:45 (permalink)
    RSMCGUITAR
    Thanks for the comments Steve. I definitely see what you're saying. I'm really struggling with the drums. I'm using AD2. I'm mixing on headphones with Sonarworks which is unfortunately the best I can do right now.




    Yeah, AD2 has some nice kits!  I've used it on most of my tunes.   Which one were you using, and how does it sound when solo'd?   It's possible there's some masking happening too...
     

    SteveC
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    #13
    RSMCGUITAR
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    Re: Apocrypha 2017/01/13 00:01:21 (permalink)
    I think I basically picked a kit with the intention of doing all the compression and EQing and stuff in Sonar (you know, for practice or whatever.) So I think I went through and disengaged all the compressors and saturation stuff in AD2. I'm realizing now that that was probably a dumb approach. 
    #14
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