kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 00:07:22
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/02 16:06:48
This thread is starting to remind me of A Tag Team Wrestling Match  In the Blue Mac corner we have Fleer , Kenny & Rain . In the Red PC corner we have Starrise ,pwalpwal, AT, bit, and a whole multitude of star PC athletes  Jim by himself is his own team  Kenny
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 05:19:19
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I think the problem with something like this is when a program such as Sonar can only run on one platform. There may be a tendency for polarisation. But when you use a program like Studio One that runs very well on both, then the differences between them actually fade away to not much. I for one use my software on both platforms and in reality there his no big difference here. Once the program is booted up on either, the OS in fact disappears into the background and the program pretty runs identically on both. So in fact the argument is weak. There are some things on the Mac that are easier and when there are less options sometimes things do work better. Some things do install easier and faster with less fiddling around. Stellar performance can be had on either system so if you are wanting to build a high end machine to run your program you can do it very well as evidenced here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=5zhXijvtkNc So if you think that only the ultimate performance can be had on a Mac Pro then well you may be wrong. There are other things I do like about the Mac in preference to Windows. They are not always related to DAW use.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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TheMaartian
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 14:35:02
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I am NOT paying north of $4K for this. Still need monitors, keyboard and a mouse. 
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
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Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 14:53:20
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Jeff Evans
I think the problem with something like this is when a program such as Sonar can only run on one platform. There may be a tendency for polarisation. But when you use a program like Studio One that runs very well on both, then the differences between them actually fade away to not much. I for one use my software on both platforms and in reality there his no big difference here. Once the program is booted up on either, the OS in fact disappears into the background and the program pretty runs identically on both. So in fact the argument is weak.
There are some things on the Mac that are easier and when there are less options sometimes things do work better. Some things do install easier and faster with less fiddling around.
Stellar performance can be had on either system so if you are wanting to build a high end machine to run your program you can do it very well as evidenced here for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=5zhXijvtkNc
So if you think that only the ultimate performance can be had on a Mac Pro then well you may be wrong.
There are other things I do like about the Mac in preference to Windows. They are not always related to DAW use.
Kenny it's Starise not Starrise bonk bonk bonk ...you can call me Tim anytime too.You do play one heckuva guitar there dude! If cost, service and inter connective capability don't matter, then none of it matters, and you would be correct. If loosing some freedom to make hardware choices doesn't matter , then it doesn't matter. From the perspective that only the actual daw matters I would agree. I think that view leaves out the other considerations though and is probably why some only use a PC or only a Mac. If a person is considering a studio then everything in between matters. Not only this, but what matters varies by the individual and the way they plan to use it. I think the polarization comes in when Mac users come off as elitist on a forum that uses a PC daw no less. I'm not inferring this is you, but I have seen that kind of thinking here. The view they have is especially provoking when the inner hardware they use is PC hardware, is regulated like a an old Soviet gulag, and costs twice as much money. There are a lot of things people miss, but they don't usually miss this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Apple also has problems with OS updates. We PC users sometimes speak up and try to bring out the advantages of PC ownership........and if one goes into a gay bar wearing candy pants.....well. Granted this post wasn't initiated by a Mac owner, we have Mac owners here. I can respect someone liking a Mac for how it works. Who can argue that? It's subjective there. I also own the Studio One Professional with the latest updates installed. I only use it on a PC, so if you like Studio One you aren't held to a Mac like a person is with Logic. It goes both ways here- Some daw software will only run on a Mac. Some will only run on a PC, some on both. There are people with daw problems over on the Studio One board who use Mac computers.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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Fleer
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 16:13:03
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Yep, I guess even Mac users aren't happy about the way Apple has evolved as a business. They were sweet when they were small and highly creative. They're not anymore, PC innards and all.
Still sticking to Apple, though, because of the software-hardware integration. That's what does it for me, as I'm not a tinkerer. Happy enough to see that we can put our own RAM in those new iMacs (instead of going for Apple's crazily expensive options). Conclusion for me: they're massively overpriced but they still sell the same one-in-all solutions I like. Would get lost in a PC world, as I do often enough when I have to use PowerPoint on a university PC (and I always ask a student to launch it for me).
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 17:09:33
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Debaters don't make a lot of friends. I don't mean to be unfriended because I might have a different view about something. Some things can't be helped. I don't want to be that guy, really. But I have to say it- The issue here is some believe Mac software/ hardware works better than PC Software/hardware. Is this true? The answer depends on the approach. PC might involve slightly more homework on the part of the user. In only commenting about my personal experiences I can say that it took me roughly a half hour online to find compatible hardware.. So "slightly" for me is a half hour in return for me paying roughly half of what I would spend on a Mac, or less. To me that effort was worth it. Additionally, I have more choices in keyboards, mice,printers,hard drives,motherboards,memory,Monitors and on it goes. If a company makes PC hardware and it isn't found to be compatible, that company will go out of business. These companies do the same thing Apple does- They test their stuff with the other stuff. This is especially important to those who use audio interfaces for recording. We know who the stable hardware makers are. Focustrite, RME, Motu and others who have shown that their stuff works with PC stuff. If there was a wider distance between issues using PC and issues using Mac I would agree. Back in the Windows 98 days I would have said there's no comparison. Mac was much better back then at compatibility. Mac users had good reason to brag about how much better their stuff was than our stuff. Now let's skip to the present. Mac code is fast becoming overloaded and bulky. Apple has made a few bad decisions recently in the desktop computer sector.Windows has a much better OS with improved driver recognition. Vendor have been more diligent to make sure stuff works with other stuff. Our stuff has been working pretty good with other stuff for quite awhile now There is still an occasional problem here and there. Not usually with known working arrangements. If you don't fancy building a computer, there are plenty to be bought. Just takes very small bit of research. I'm sure Jim and others here like him could help you with that. Whichever you choose you have all my best wishes in making music.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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dubdisciple
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 20:15:18
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2017/11/03 05:50:23
Never understood need for people to be insistent on platforms to the point where they need to deride others. Experiences vary amd there are certainly pros and cons on each. If something is working for you, why give a crap what others prefer? Macs ARE generally easier to work the eay you want out the box, but that is not always true since pc makers and users vary. Pcs AREmore susceptible to crashes and driver incompatibilities for average user, but some pc users have no such issies. When Mac users do experience issues whether hardware or software they tend to be far harder to resolve for the average joe. Wgen linux works it tends to be smooth sailing, but the most minor things can be annoying. I think most of these debates are based in a bizarre insecurity about very personal choices.
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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 20:33:07
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dubdisciple
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 21:21:50
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abacab
Use what works for you! 
If I could do everything I needed to on a $35 Raspberry Pi system on a board, I would.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/
Tracktion actually has a version of Waveform 8 and their Biotek synth that runs on Raspberry Pi (Linux build for Pi).
NAMM 2017: Tracktion Raspberry Pi Interface
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2MTUpji8Uw
a rasberry pi is on my list of things to purchase. The $35 is a little misleading though since you will need more to be functional un ess you have needed components laying about already. I think those kits are a great way to learn about the functionality of comnputers that are not in a form we often think of as a "a computer" like smaret refrigerators " and other devices that are basically computers
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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 23:38:47
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dubdisciple
a rasberry pi is on my list of things to purchase. The $35 is a little misleading though since you will need more to be functional un ess you have needed components laying about already. I think those kits are a great way to learn about the functionality of comnputers that are not in a form we often think of as a "a computer" like smaret refrigerators " and other devices that are basically computers
But ~$100 or less is feasible. Not counting an audio interface or studio gear, LOL! The Raspberry Pi 3 Model B is a single-board computer with wireless LAN and Bluetooth connectivity, but needs a micro SD card and a micro power supply. And a plastic case for aesthetics... Specs:
The Raspberry Pi 3 is the third-generation Raspberry Pi. It replaced the Raspberry Pi 2 Model B in February 2016.
- Quad Core 1.2GHz Broadcom BCM2837 64bit CPU
- 1GB RAM
- BCM43438 wireless LAN and Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) on board
- 40-pin extended GPIO
- 4 USB 2 ports
- 4 Pole stereo output and composite video port
- Full size HDMI
- CSI camera port for connecting a Raspberry Pi camera
- DSI display port for connecting a Raspberry Pi touchscreen display
- Micro SD port for loading your operating system and storing data
- Upgraded switched Micro USB power source up to 2.5A
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timidi
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/02 23:57:40
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The 'which is better' Mac or PC debate is always inherently flawed because price always comes into the equation.
IMO, I don't think price has anything to do with which is a better computer.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 01:06:42
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abacab..still a great deal although one could get a used conputer and install linux for under 100. I think the awesome part of rasberry pi is the educational value and customization potential
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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 02:00:06
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dubdisciple
abacab..still a great deal although one could get a used conputer and install linux for under 100. I think the awesome part of rasberry pi is the educational value and customization potential
Agreed. I've been building computers for almost 20 years, so have quite a boneyard of used Intel parts. I have built a few Linux boxes with those spare parts! That is the only reason I have not been playing with this new tech yet. So it must be a good time to be a kid, and have this micro stuff as a resource for learning! I just wanted to point this angle out for some perspective to the discussion. I have been working with computers since the mainframe days, before PC, and I am just amazed at what is available today. When the first personal computers appeared, I looked at them as toys. But then it was the Amiga, and then the Mac that showed promise as multimedia capable computers. It took some time for the PC to take it's place among them. So here we are. Intel based Macs. Intel based PC's. Mac is a Unix OS. So is Linux. Take your pick... sooner or later maybe Microsoft will wise up and move the Windows kernel to Unix or Linux, LOL!!! But if not, it's all good if it still works for you!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 03:49:32
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Hi Tim , Sorry about the Starise misspelling boink boink it was unintentional ... I have been listening to your music and sounds for years ...I love a lot of what you do Peace , Kenny
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Rain
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 06:17:57
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☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2017/11/03 16:43:23
dubdisciple
Never understood need for people to be insistent on platforms to the point where they need to deride others. Experiences vary amd there are certainly pros and cons on each. If something is working for you, why give a crap what others prefer? Macs ARE generally easier to work the eay you want out the box, but that is not always true since pc makers and users vary. Pcs AREmore susceptible to crashes and driver incompatibilities for average user, but some pc users have no such issies. When Mac users do experience issues whether hardware or software they tend to be far harder to resolve for the average joe. Wgen linux works it tends to be smooth sailing, but the most minor things can be annoying. I think most of these debates are based in a bizarre insecurity about very personal choices.
Ditto. Both alternatives do work, as abundantly demonstrated on a daily basis in the industry. People who pretend that PC are too unreliable to use are proven wrong every minute of the day. Same goes for people who are on some sort of anti-Apple crusade. As Jim pointed out, there's also a lot of people running hybrid rigs, because that's what works for them. Personally, I think that the assumption that just about every one basically NEEDS quantum computing to make music is ridiculous. Of course some people require a gazillion live tracks, but they're certainly not the majority - merely a fragment of the market. In fact, all that computing power did very little to improve the quality of music in recent years. All the opposite. Personally, no matter how much more powerful the latest custom-built PC is than my current rig, I couldn't care less. And that is the mentality of a majority of Mac users I speak with - and who do this for a living.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Mesh
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 15:37:26
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/04 16:09:13
....just wanted to drop in and say I like mac and cheese
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Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 15:41:27
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/04 16:09:23
I posted and it went away. The other day the same thing happened and it took a day for it to show up.
Mac and Cheese are like what? Simon and Garfunkle? Maybe a bad comparison. Well ok, yes it's a bad comparison.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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dubdisciple
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 16:47:07
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My son just made an entire album using a 10 year old laptop running XP and onboard soundcard. The songs are not full orchestral arrangements, but he managed to do everything within box
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Rain
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/03 17:35:42
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/19 16:47:14
Coexist... 
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Fleer
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/19 00:04:54
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All things considered, I'm still anxious to see what that new iMac Pro may bring to the musical table.
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/19 01:19:43
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/19 16:46:41
I dunno. Maybe it's time to see if Jim can build a decent 'Hackintosh'.
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tlw
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/19 04:25:20
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Some people find getting Hackintoshes to work properly an interesting entertainment and time-filling hobby.
Way too much trouble as far as I’m concerned. I like computers that work and keep working without needing constant tuning or throwing a fit just when they’re most needed.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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tlw
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/19 04:25:20
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Accidental double post, please ignore.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/19 16:54:05
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tlw
I like computers that work and keep working without needing constant tuning or throwing a fit just when they’re most needed.
So that requirement pretty much eliminates Windows PCs, LOL!!!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/20 14:27:48
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/11/20 14:37:20
abacab
I dunno. Maybe it's time to see if Jim can build a decent 'Hackintosh'.
Building a "Hackintosh" is actually a fun "puzzle" (if you're into those kinds of things). It's a great test of problem solving skills. You solve one problem... and then it's on to another. When all problems are solved, you wind up with a machine that's close to a Mac... but not exactly a Mac. The devil is in the very fine details. If you want a Mac, get the real thing. With a "Hackintosh", literally any update can break the hacked OS.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/22 08:40:32
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/11/22 15:18:01
Considering the recent News about Gibson dropping Cakewalk . I'm glad I have a Mac that I love using for music production Kenny
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/22 08:57:29
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kennywtelejazz
Considering the recent News about Gibson dropping Cakewalk .
I'm glad I have a Mac that I love using for music production
Kenny
I'm glad I have a PC since it still supports all of my M-Audio legacy gear.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/22 09:22:10
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kitekrazy1
kennywtelejazz
Considering the recent News about Gibson dropping Cakewalk .
I'm glad I have a Mac that I love using for music production
Kenny
I'm glad I have a PC since it still supports all of my M-Audio legacy gear.
touche ! I see you are getting a few zings in there .......huh ? it is common knowledge I use what ever I can get my grimy paws on when it comes to music production Believe it or not , I was very much like batsbrew in one very important regard ...I ran SONAR 6 PE under XP right up until a little over 3 years ago . I was very happy , my XP machine still has a Delta 1010lt and a Audiophile 192 in it for my sound cards . I still have that setup it never saw the net except for DAW software updates and it out lasted 4 other PC's that served double duty ...DAW & internet I don't hate PC , I'm not a Mac fanboy ....I just love the idea that all this BS that's going on has absolutely no effect on neither on my Mac rigs all the best, Kenny
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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/22 15:21:48
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kennywtelejazz
Considering the recent News about Gibson dropping Cakewalk .
I'm glad I have a Mac that I love using for music production
Kenny
Plus you still have that cool Tracktion Waveform thingy, and all those other DAWs that you dabble around with. I may have to think of you as the biggest prepper around these parts, cuz you are better prepared for the end of days than most of us!
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P
2017/11/22 17:20:27
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