Helpful ReplyApple: It's Good If You Like C**P

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Fleer
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 02:11:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2017/11/23 15:45:36
And all of my five M-Audio controllers work fine with my Macs. Eat that!

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 02:17:52 (permalink)
Fleer
And all of my five M-Audio controllers work fine with my Macs. Eat that!




LOL! My original Oxygen 8 won't.  I doubt the earlier Axions wont either. They will if you skip the USB port.

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Fleer
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 02:22:06 (permalink)
Think I'm just lucky that my Oxygen is the wireless one and my Axioms are all Mk2 ...

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 02:34:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/23 03:32:37
Fleer
Think I'm just lucky that my Oxygen is the wireless one and my Axioms are all Mk2 ...




The original Oxygen 8 is recognized by Reason as Oxygen 8 instead the legacy controller in other DAWs. I tried to trade it in at a Guitar Center and wasn't recognized by a Mac.  I decided to keep it cause it works fine.

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Rain
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 03:37:56 (permalink)
Despite how sad the recent news makes me, I can't help but find a certain irony in seeing so many people advocating a solution that's essentially very similar to an approach that's common among Mac users.
 
Indeed, many seem to be considering not upgrading their machine because Sonar works fine and will continue to work and because their current configuration is absolutely adequate. The main difference being that, unlike the Mac user who has the option of upgrading at any time, Sonar users just do not have that luxury.
 
For what it's worth, I've had the opportunity to work on Sonar 8.5 under XP last weekend. Worked like a charm. I actually preferred it to the glimpse I have had of Sonar X when Cakewalk finally made the Mac prototype available.

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 15:28:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/11/24 00:18:15
abacab
kennywtelejazz
Considering the recent News about Gibson dropping Cakewalk .
 
I'm glad I have a Mac that I love using for music production
 
Kenny
 



Plus you still have that cool Tracktion Waveform thingy, and all those other DAWs that you dabble around with. 
 
I may have to think of you as the biggest prepper around these parts, cuz you are better prepared for the end of days than most of us! 




Hi abacab,
 
I guess you busted me  ,
 
I have  14 out of the top 20 DAW's that show up in the polls from that online music site that always does DAW polls ...
So Yes,  I guess I'm a combination of a DAW whore , a plugin addict and a prepper
 
Sheesh even when my dog Duke howls my name he calls me Jack sometimes because I'm a Jack of all these DAW's and a master on none . .... that's how it feels someday s
Yeah man Tracktion Waveform 8 w all the Air stuff is freaking awesome  ..Super potent combo for very little money.
Same goes for Reaper and Mixcraft 8 pro w those plugs ...
have a good one
 
Kenny
 
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 16:17:14 (permalink)
kitekrazy1
kennywtelejazz
kitekrazy1
kennywtelejazz
Considering the recent News about Gibson dropping Cakewalk .
 
I'm glad I have a Mac that I love using for music production
 
Kenny
 




 I'm glad I have a PC since it still supports all of my M-Audio legacy gear.


 
touche !
I see you are getting a few zings in there .......huh ?
it is common knowledge I use what ever I can get my grimy paws on when it comes to music production 
Believe it or not , I was very much like batsbrew in one very important regard ...I ran SONAR 6 PE under XP right up until a little over 3 years ago . I was very happy ,  my XP machine still has a Delta 1010lt and a Audiophile 192 in it for my sound cards  .
I still have that setup it never saw the net except for DAW software updates and it out lasted 4 other PC's that served double duty ...DAW & internet
I don't hate PC , I'm not a Mac fanboy ....I just love the idea that all this BS that's going on has absolutely no effect on neither on my Mac rigs 
 
all the best,
 
Kenny




 I could resit the pot calling the kettle black.  I didn't see how the two relate.  I made it a point that Microsoft makes a great effort to support legacy devices where this is not the case with Apple.
 Mac don't fit my budget since I could easily upgrade 3 machines for the price of their "desktop" models.
 




Well if your a windows guy only , I don't expect that you would know how they relate
Anyway , I happen to like you so I will choose not to argue with you ...
FWIW I have the opposite thing on my Mac side of things .
I can run most of my dual platform software and I still prefer using the DAW's  over on the Mac side ...
A couple of recent DAW software updates have raised the bar as to which version of OSX is considered the bare min spec ...I'm still good to go w Reaper , Mixbus 4 , Abelton Live 9 , Transcribe , BIAB, Midi Guitar, all my IK stuff ,and a bunch of others ...Logic pro I can only stay at 9 , same w MainStage 2 ...no MS3 , Logic X or Tracktion Waveform 8 for me ...T 7 is fine over there for now so it's all good ....
I don't want to leave the versions of OSX  I'm running and I'm OK w it ...
As far as hardware goes all my usb stuff works ....(Focusrite & Apogee )....none of my Macs have PCI ..so I may pick up and older Mac Pro someday and throw the M Audio cards in it ...all this is not really a concern for me ...
BTW I don't have Thunder bolt or any thing from that era ...yet everything I have works flawlessly ...considering what I have into these Macs I feel I'm doing OK ...
As far as Macs being all that expensive goes Yeah sure I feel that pain myself ...the thing is I have been looking to buy a new computer for a while and after pricing both Mac and PC it is not as big a price difference as some people make it out to be ...yeah OK sure if you want to build your own you can build a super nice win machine or have one built for what a MackBook costs ...I don't want to build my own and I want to break free from windows...
I don't need a Mac Pro when a 15 inch MacBook Pro or a middle of the road i Mac would do just perfectly fine for me needs ...even an Apple refurbish may work in my case ....and yes I would put Apple care on it  if I went newer.
 
I was gifted my i Mac and I paid $120. for my MackBook ..so let me put it this way ...if I could find a used Mac that wasn't beat to $hit I would not hesitate to go there as long as it passed Apple diagnostics
SONAR is now considered dead (for a while until it rises out of the ashes ) ...I don't have to stay on a PC ...
Yeah I love some of my PC only software such as Samplitude Pro X 2 and a few others ...but hey I still much prefer to run software over hard ware first ...the thing is I always try to run software that is dual OS ...both PC and OSX
 
 
all the best,
 
Kenny

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



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tlw
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/23 23:23:37 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
...even an Apple refurbish may work in my case


I’ve a 15.3” mid 2014 i7 Retina MacBook Pro I got around Easter 2015 as an Apple refurb. Came in “as new” packaging with “as new” warranty and Applecare availability and it looked immaculate. Not a mark on it.

Keeping an eye on Apple’s refurb offers is a good idea if you’re in the market for a new Mac anything. The money saved compared to brand new isn’t that much, but it all helps.

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abacab
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/24 03:14:52 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
 
Hi abacab,
 
I guess you busted me  ,

 

 

I have  14 out of the top 20 DAW's that show up in the polls from that online music site that always does DAW polls ...
So Yes,  I guess I'm a combination of a DAW whore , a plugin addict and a prepper


 

Sheesh even when my dog Duke howls my name he calls me Jack sometimes because I'm a Jack of all these DAW's and a master on none . .... that's how it feels someday s

 
Duke knows his s h i t !!!
 

Yeah man Tracktion Waveform 8 w all the Air stuff is freaking awesome  ..Super potent combo for very little money.



I'm even happier now that I pulled the trigger on Tracktion this year!
 
In hindsight, I believe I saw the writing on the wall when Cakewalk tried, and failed, with their Sonar cross-platform attempt with the Mac version.  I believe that is a prerequisite for a successful audio application today. 
 
The collaboration aspect is key, as well as the mind-share of the creative users on both platforms.  I personally will only buy cross-platform software going forward. 
 
At the same time I will ensure that I always have a Windows OS installed somewhere that can run Platinum, and Project 5 for many more years to come. 

DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab 2018.08-32; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Fathom; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/11/24 10:24:36 (permalink)
tlw
kennywtelejazz
...even an Apple refurbish may work in my case


I’ve a 15.3” mid 2014 i7 Retina MacBook Pro I got around Easter 2015 as an Apple refurb. Came in “as new” packaging with “as new” warranty and Applecare availability and it looked immaculate. Not a mark on it.

Keeping an eye on Apple’s refurb offers is a good idea if you’re in the market for a new Mac anything. The money saved compared to brand new isn’t that much, but it all helps.

 
Hi tlw ,
 
I would love to get a 15 MackBook Pro from that era .
Right now I could probably swing a refub MacBook Pro  13 or a refurb i Mac  w Apple Care .
Now with all that has happened here regarding Cakewalk I have to step back and really consider what I want to do .... Yeah  .... When it Rains it pours
all the best......
 
abacab
kennywtelejazz
 
Hi abacab,
 
I guess you busted me  ,

 

 

I have  14 out of the top 20 DAW's that show up in the polls from that online music site that always does DAW polls ...
So Yes,  I guess I'm a combination of a DAW whore , a plugin addict and a prepper


 

Sheesh even when my dog Duke howls my name he calls me Jack sometimes because I'm a Jack of all these DAW's and a master on none . .... that's how it feels someday s

 
Duke knows his s h i t !!!
 

Yeah man Tracktion Waveform 8 w all the Air stuff is freaking awesome  ..Super potent combo for very little money.



I'm even happier now that I pulled the trigger on Tracktion this year!
 
In hindsight, I believe I saw the writing on the wall when Cakewalk tried, and failed, with their Sonar cross-platform attempt with the Mac version.  I believe that is a prerequisite for a successful audio application today. 
 
The collaboration aspect is key, as well as the mind-share of the creative users on both platforms.  I personally will only buy cross-platform software going forward. 
 
At the same time I will ensure that I always have a Windows OS installed somewhere that can run Platinum, and Project 5 for many more years to come. 


+1 abacab !
I love Tracktion Waveform 8
I'm still learning my way around it . I find it totally enjoyable to use and I have used it for a number of my recent songs postings ..
Interestingly enough I would start out a song in SPlat and keep it there for the early stages ..
Depending on what worked out best within Splat,  I would then export all my individual tracks , create a Waveform  project out of my SONAR exports and then bring that Waveform project over from Windows as a self contained Waveform project over to my i Mac ...once I had it over there I would then create a working stereo mix of my tune for Logic .
The nice thing about doing that was Logic does come with some very good sounding instruments and plugs ...
In my mind it was the best of both worlds I would lay down new parts using Logic because all the cool stuff that Logic comes with is locked down to the Logic DAW ...then when I had the sounds and layers I wanted I would take all the individual tracks one at a time and add them to my Waveform Project
All that may seem like a lot of work , in truth it wasn't....because I would have a fully working DUAL OS version of my Waveform project .....Mac or PC it longer mattered once it was a Waveform Project w assets  ...
Then I would bring my Tracktion project back over to Windows and work some more ...you know mix , and do a social media mastering thing for my tune ....
I happen to love object orienting style editing and mixing . Tracktion and Waveform  is so underrated when it comes to that work flow ...it is super fast to get very good results  it is much faster and easier to work that way than Samplitude is...
 
Anyway , I had no idea about Cakewalks possible future problems when I got Tracktion and Waveform ...
That type of thing was the furthest from my mind ...I like to keep my mind occupied w learning and music so I thought Waveform may turn out to be a fun Playground to create music in ...so far it seems to be a good fit 
I'm also very happy that I was able to go from free to the whole top of the line version over the course of a year. my wallet was certainly happy that I didn't have to place it in the ICU under Life Support 
 
I'm not anti Win ...I have a whole bunch of DAW programs that are tied to Windows only ....
It's all Sort of like a time capsule in the regard of having upgraded various versions of SONY , Cakewalk , Magix
BIAB  and a bunch of other software Jazz over the years ...it's all good man ...
I still run P 5 VIVA P 5 you can take that out of my cold dead grimy Paws
 
all the best to you ,
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/12/24 01:57:52 (permalink)
I have recently had an interesting set of circumstances that pointed me toward a laptop. For this reason I gave Mac a second very in depth look. I am making my own backing tracks for stage as a worship leader at a church. This isn't anything new for churches, but it's a new thing for me. I have used lappys as synths on stage 10 years ago. I wanted something that would let me load heavy samples and run tracks as well.
 
A Macbook set up the way I wanted  would have cost me 2700.00 or more. Probably closer to 3000.00 I looked at all the specs of all the mac computers in great detail. Several things that were deal breakers. Not many Macs are sold new with two hard drives or with more than 8gb of memory. Since i want to load Kontakt and use a daw at the same time I needed that extra memory and hard drive. I don't want to take chances on stage my computer won't be up to the task. They don't tell you that most macs also have 5400 rpm hdds in them.
 
To be fair, you also need to watch the specs of PC laptops. Not all that are said to be high performance really are.
I guess many people who use  macs live might have smaller more uncomplicated mixes running. 
 
Some of the things I really liked about the new Macs are the adaptable strip at the top of the keyboard. You can set that up to control a daw. I like their program called mainstage which lets you build a nice set of synths up. Mainstage is an offshoot of Logic X. I like the way the macs use core audio and core midi. Probably a little more efficient in some ways than some of the windows drivers. A lot of the work you need to do running music on stage is probably initially easier. A PC can be told the same things. Might not be as intuitive. The new screens on the macs are impressive. 
 
In the end though I just couldn't justify it since I was the one spending the money. I ended up with a high performance laptop for a little over 950.00 on sale. You can't touch that in macland. If anyone is interested what I bought here it is. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834268441 The hardware in this laptop beats most Macbooks hands down. This lappy is competition to the Alienware line from Dell. You can spend over 3000.00 for a PC lappy too. I believe I got a powerful computer for very little change. I'll let you know how it all pans out.
 
If you look at these be careful though. The HP OMEN line has various hardware configurations. Many of them, like the one I seen at Besy Buy had only 8gb of memory in it. 

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TheMaartian
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/12/24 12:42:56 (permalink)
You're lucky you got that laptop when you did. Sold out now. Good luck with it!

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/12/26 07:55:51 (permalink)
Tim ,
 
It sounds like you just scored a very nice PC for a decent price good luck w it .
 
Kenny

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/12/26 23:43:59 (permalink)
Thanks the Maartian and Kenny! 
 
They delivered this thing fast. I didn't pay for 2 day delivery, but it was on my doorstep the very next day.
So far I am impressed. I loaded Ableton for windows on it. Ableton has a very nice set of tutorials to get you started on that program. I'm already up to speed on the the basic operation of it and ready to start building backing tracks on my desktop PC. I build a prog rock Christmas kind of backing track in Mixcraft 8 Pro and played it this past Sunday. No click. I wrote it as a wav to a usb drive and played it through my Juno stage which has a usb stick song player. All went off without a hitch. With the Juno you can switch sounds while the track is playing. 
 
I'm glad I went with Ableton. I might even compose in it, but right now I'm thinking I'll use something else and import the files. Chop them up into sections and fire them off with my controller. Sonar is still wonderful for putting compos together.
 
The computer is still a novelty for me. It feels odd sitting in the living room when I'm so used to being in the studio working on stuff :). So far I love it all round'.
 
I hope you guys had a nice holiday and I'm wishing you all a happy new year!
 
 
 

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kitekrazy1
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/12/27 17:30:09 (permalink)
I was looking at those Mac Mini's in GC.  They have a 1.5ghz CPU. What software runs on that?   

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Gargamel314
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2017/12/28 15:02:46 (permalink)
My sister bought me an iPod nano when they first came out, it was great, but soon after I put iTunes on my PC I noticed it was a troublemaker on my computer.  I spent about 2 years having iTunes for this ONE DEVICE on my computer, and finally decided to purge it from my system.  What I found was any music that I bought through Apple was unsalvageable, unless I put a ridiculous amount of work (or money) into transferring it to MP3.  Settings were not very customizable... Apple doesn't like not being in control!  That seems to be the theme with Apple, they take a LOT of control out of the users' hands so you can't make personal modifications to your system.  They may make very high quality gear, but it's never really yours, is it?  You may own the hardware it's on, but the Software is still under the control of the giant corporation.  Windows has kind of gone that way, but ultimately, their OS still has ways that you can make very specific modifications IF YOU KNOW HOW TO.  Your PC is yours to do with as you please.  You want to majorly screw it up, you have that right.

It's the control-thing I have a big problem with when it comes to Apple... not the quality of their stuff.

Gargamel314


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Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/01 17:15:57 (permalink)
The only thing I'm finding out so far with Ableton and a PC is that there are more nice hacks for the mac version because that's what everyone uses. Don't ask why because they will just tell you, " that's what everyone uses".
 
I can still do what i need to do with the PC no problems. Ableton lets you load two copies, so I have one copy on my desktop and another copy on the lappy.
 
Ableton is really good at grabbing any audio from anywhere. It even has a sampler if you can't find what you want.
It can then take that audio and do pretty much anything you can imagine, so I guess I'm more hyped at this point about Ableton than I am about the OS or the computer I'm using it on. 

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Fleer
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/03 02:23:52 (permalink)
You may try to run MainStage on your PC: https://www.macworld.co.u...s-on-pc-3632329/ 

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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/03 14:04:18 (permalink)
Or not.
 
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/03 20:26:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2018/01/07 03:09:15
So far it isn't the computer holding me back. Fleer- Mainstage on a PC? Interesting. Cantabile is yet another prospect. The better version of that can play backing tracks.  What it doesn't have though is cues and metronome tracks that change per song.
 
You can change tempo and pitch on the fly with warping in Ableton. Drop any audio onto a midi track and use it. Don't need ARA in it.
 
I'm getting too far off the subject matter though. This was about Mac/PC. I hate to admit it. In this case if I could have found an Apple with the right specs for about the same price I would have probably bought an Apple computer.
This is because Ableton has more support and extras like templates people have made for Apple.
 
A Lot of people have done a lot of work with Apple computers to make the stage/live performance thing work well. It really isn't about the hardware as I see it.It has more to do with the development behind it. At some point everyone just decided Apple was best. Admittedly at one time it WAS better. It can be hard to change views which had some validity in the past.
Now , as I see it, the only advantage is that more people are working on that platform based on the early idea that Apple was better. The difference isn't like night and day though depending on what you plan to use it for. Once set up the difference is probably not discernible. The main difference is in how you made it do what you wanted it to do.
 
Playing devil's advocate here, I wouldn't say Apple is "easy . This is usually the expectation for those who buy Apple. It doesn't always work that way.It mostly does though. You still need to go through whatever process it is you need to things happen. Apple isn't going to write the music for you.

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tlw
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/03 21:15:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2018/01/07 03:09:35
Starise
Playing devil's advocate here, I wouldn't say Apple is "easy . This is usually the expectation for those who buy Apple. It doesn't always work that way.It mostly does though. You still need to go through whatever process it is you need to things happen. Apple isn't going to write the music for you.


Macs are “easier” than Windows setups when it comes to near-real-time audio simply because the OS is designed differently and Apple have 100% control over and knowledge of exactly what components each revision of the computer uses. The myriad of possible hardware combinations Windows has to work reliably with doesn’t exist for Apple.

Delayed procedure call latency that causes dropouts in Windows isn’t a problem on Macs, not is there any need to tweak any cpu sleep settings or any other settings to get low latency. A combination of Core Audio and (hopefully) good drivers from the interface manufacturers means that side of things pretty much does “just work”. Even running MIDI networked via wi-fi at the same time as sub-10ms round-trip audio doesn’t cause problems.

Where Windows can have an advantage is the modular nature of PCs makes it possible to do frequent cpu/motherboard etc. upgrades to improve performance, while Macs’ internal hardware is pretty much fixed to how the model in question was designed and what was in it when you bought it.

But after spending about couple of decades tweaking BIOS settings and Windows to get acceptable audio performance, I found setting up a Mac DAW simplicity itself. For a lot of people who want to use computers to make and record music, a simple setup procedure requiring no in-depth tweaking of bits of the OS and BIOS most people never even know exist is worth trading against the extra brute power the latest cpu provides.

Now if someone could only come up with a “click here to create a hit single” function.....

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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/20 13:39:53 (permalink)
One of my work colleagues uses both Logic and Cubase on the Mac, and he's always complaining that every time Apple releases an OS update it ends up breaking either Logic or Cubase, and it takes up to a month before they sort it out.
 
He says he rarely uses Cubase on his PC because it crashes too much... the only time Sonar crashes on me is when I forget to close down OneDrive.
 
Also, Mac's seem to slow down over time for no apparent reason - and even a clean install of the OS makes no difference (I've heard some people say Apple do this deliberately to try to get you to upgrade your Mac, but I'm slightly dubious about this).
 
My Mac Mini is an Intel Core Duo running at 2.4 GHz with 8Gb RAM, and my old Dell Core Duo @ 2Ghz laptop with 4Gb Ram wipes the floor with it (both on Windows and Ubuntu). I recently put an SSD in my Mac with a clean install of High Sierra, and although the boot time improved significantly, it's still slow as hell doing anything else.
 
The worst I've ever seen on a PC is Windows Update messing around with drivers - re-installing the drivers has fixed things.
 
Nowadays the only thing I use my Mac for is backing up my iPhone and running Visual Studio for cross-platform Xamarin projects.
 
So in conclusion, it seems to me that Mac users have exactly the same issues some PC users have (although if anything, it's worse if things just stop working altogether). And they're paying 3 times as much for the pleasure. 
 
All the Mac users I've spoken to say they just don't bother with updates unless they have to in order to keep their system stable... so no difference from PC users then!
 
M.
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/20 18:57:08 (permalink)
msmcleod
One of my work colleagues uses both Logic and Cubase on the Mac, and he's always complaining that every time Apple releases an OS update it ends up breaking either Logic or Cubase, and it takes up to a month before they sort it out.

 
Anybody working on any platform should know better than to upgrade OS upon release. I wouldn't even get into a discussion with someone who has not yet figured out that simple rule, much less take their opinion into consideration...
 
msmcleod
 
Also, Mac's seem to slow down over time for no apparent reason - and even a clean install of the OS makes no difference (I've heard some people say Apple do this deliberately to try to get you to upgrade your Mac, but I'm slightly dubious about this).
 

 
Unless you mess with the OS, no they don't. There is no mysterious voodoo at work. But new software that is not optimized to run on your hardware will indeed make your computer slower. (And that is the one thing that seems to have changed dramatically in the last decade - developers no longer seem to be interested in optimizing their software and would rather use as much of your hardware's resource as they can).
 
I've often mentioned my brother-in-law who ran a studio with Pro Tools 6 on his early 2000 OS9/Mac G4 at its center for well over a decade - in fact, I believe he still has that machine running. My own Mac is a bit over 3 and still works exactly like the day I brought it home.
 
If you treat your machine as you would a dedicated hard disk recording system and not like a disposable smart phone, it will last.
 
msmcleod
 
So in conclusion, it seems to me that Mac users have exactly the same issues some PC users have (although if anything, it's worse if things just stop working altogether). And they're paying 3 times as much for the pleasure. 
 
All the Mac users I've spoken to say they just don't bother with updates unless they have to in order to keep their system stable... so no difference from PC users then!

 
People who know what they are doing and don't upgrade OS just because Apple or Microsoft released a new version usually don't have as many problems with their computer. 
 
With that basic bit of common wisdom taken in consideration, as a user of both Mac and PC, I would say that, no, I do not have the exact same issues on Mac as on PC and that I still prefer Mac - and by a long shot.
 
One can draw his or her own conclusion, but I would urge you not to rely too much on the experience of people who haven't figured out the basic "if it ain't broke" rule...

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tlw
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/20 19:40:02 (permalink)
msmcleod
One of my work colleagues uses both Logic and Cubase on the Mac, and he's always complaining that every time Apple releases an OS update it ends up breaking either Logic or Cubase, and it takes up to a month before they sort it out.
 


Really? I keep seeing these claims, but can’t say I’ve ever seen that, nor has anyone I know who uses Macs for audio or video work. Sometimes it takes hardware manufacturers a few weeks to get out a driver, but that’s the same for WIndows as well. Or in M-Audio’s case anything up to a couple of years.

msmcleod
Also, Mac's seem to slow down over time for no apparent reason - and even a clean install of the OS makes no difference (I've heard some people say Apple do this deliberately to try to get you to upgrade your Mac, but I'm slightly dubious about this).
 

 
There’s a function in some of the phones to slow them down if the battery is low or aging and no longer delivering full current to avoid the phone shutting down due to not enough power left. Not in Macs though, especially ones that don’t even have a battery. If Macbooks have a battery life problem it’s that the i7 ones drain the battery fairly quickly if pushed hard, say around 8 hours life compared to around 10 if used for less demanding stuff. They’re more of a portable computer than a “use it all day” laptop.

msmcleod
My Mac Mini is an Intel Core Duo running at 2.4 GHz with 8Gb RAM, and my old Dell Core Duo @ 2Ghz laptop with 4Gb Ram wipes the floor with it (both on Windows and Ubuntu). I recently put an SSD in my Mac with a clean install of High Sierra, and although the boot time improved significantly, it's still slow as hell doing anything else.

The mini’s OK for what it’s intended to do - as a media server, file server, internet browser or for office work. For DAW work it’s not so good. As for SSDs they improve file access times and drive throughput and also speed up paging to the swap file, but that’s it. They’re also impervious to shock damage and draw little power which makes them good options in laptops and being silent makes them useful in DAWs.

msmcleod 
The worst I've ever seen on a PC is Windows Update messing around with drivers - re-installing the drivers has fixed things.


I could give you a list of the problems I’ve found with Windows from 3.11 onwards, including quite expensive software becoming unusable, but it would be a long list....

msmcleod
All the Mac users I've spoken to say they just don't bother with updates unless they have to in order to keep their system stable... so no difference from PC users then!


I’ve never seen any problems caused by Mac updates between the roughly annual major OS updates, and the big ones usually only have problems while some third-party hardware people catch up. I generally install the updates between those as they turn up, though I check what they are doing first to be on the safe side. In the commercial world it’s quite common to be using very old OS releases simply because there’s been the time to thoroughly check them for potiential issues and the fear of custom business-critical software becoming unusable is very real.

Setting time aside to train people in a new OS of software version is also a factor, as is how long it takes users to get up to speed on the new stuff. All of which has cost implications. In the audio world the cost in downtime when switching software is one reason Pro Tools became the “industry standard”.

The downside of that approach is things like a major UK government department’s central office being massively hit by the Blaster worm three years after MS released the fix for it. Which is why MS took to giving very extended security issue support to old versions of Windows it you’re a large-scale commercial license customer.

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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/21 01:27:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/01/21 02:28:42
tlw
...
In the commercial world it’s quite common to be using very old OS releases simply because there’s been the time to thoroughly check them for potential issues and the fear of custom business-critical software becoming unusable is very real.
...



It's possible to wait too long. Consider the computer system running Social Security in the U.S. It is, as far as I know, the longest operating commercial system remaining. Proprietary computers. Proprietary OS. Proprietary development language and environment. 50+ years old.
 
There's a company in the Cincinnati area that has been supporting it for decades. I can't remember if they were the original developers or not. They have other lines of business. Printing money, they are. Their biggest problem, other than the system itself, is finding capable hardware and software engineers who are willing to make something that old a career. And it's 100% on-the-job training.
 
The SSA would be looking at a total, built from scratch new system.
 
Now that our wonderful government is shutdown, again, what do you think the likelihood of that happening any time soon is?
 
They waited WAY too long.

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Starise
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Re: Apple: It's Good If You Like C**P 2018/01/23 19:07:58 (permalink)
I'm a bit of a bargain hunter. If I happen to come across a used Apple spec'd fairly well. I might bite. Why would I do that? Because I can. To me this would be a value. I won't buy a new Apple unless the price goes WAY down.

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